Flame Acanthus cats...I'm hoping!

I was working in the yard today and had to squeeze by one of the Flame Acanthus. That's when I noticed something on a leaf. Well, I should mention I had Crimson Patch cats a few years back and I really want to raise those again. Besides a fairly small cat, there's itty-bitty cats in clusters on two leaves. I don't remember much about what the small cats looked like before...my memory isn't so sharp anymore. Needless to say, I haven't seen any of the butterflies around and I saw no eggs. But I'm just hoping, in spite of the fact that the larger cat doesn't look familiar!

This message was edited May 17, 2007 11:32 PM

LindaTX8-
you've mentioned this plant before...I think. I can't seem to find it here on Dave's. Can you tell me any other names for it or send me an info link? I just have to know now!!

~Adrienne

http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/60921/index.html Very nice plant! I just got one too!

Hope yours are BPs Linda! (I think they are.)

I wish you would quit doing this. Now, here's another plant I have to look for.
Grrrrr....lol ; ) ~Lucy

The Crimson Patch rarely ever gets up this far north, but since they used my Flame Acanthus once before...I guess it could happen again. BPs use Flame Acanthus also? Flame Acanthus is great. Both butterflies and hummingbirds use it as a nectar plant. It's not blooming this early in the year, however.

Linda!
A lot has been thrown off normal this year. I think Central and N Texas will see more different species.

Personally ..... I think anything is possible! After reading many posts on different threads and forums, it does seem nature is changing things up a bit due to unusual weather (which may become permanent due to global warming) or other unknown factors. If any butterflies are said to be found within 200-300 miles of you (or elsewhere in your state), I'd plant for that species! You may just get some NEW visitors or permanent residents!!! :-)

I managed to get a shot of one of the larger cats I'm raising from the Flame Acanthus today. I did find a few more on the plants outside, BTW. I'm trying to separate the larger cats from the itty-bitty ones...afraid the tiny ones will be eaten. It's kind of hard because these cats look delicate...I'm using my soft art brush to move the larger cats to another container.

Crimson Patch and Texan Crescent are the only ones I know that use Flame Acanthus. That plant is native to Edward's Plateau aka Texas Hill Country.

You're right...this has been a strange season...no telling what species we'll all find that we haven't seen before or had in large numbers.

Have you found any new eggs? Would love to see photos...am assuming they lay in clusters as I've seen clusters of cats on the Flame Acanthus at the NABA park.

Keep posting the growth of those cats too :o)

~ Cat

This message was edited May 20, 2007 9:07 PM

Forgot to post an old photo of the Crimson Patch cats from the NABA Park. It's an old and fuzzy photo...but haven't had the opportunity to photograph any with my new camera.

~ Cat

No, no new eggs, just clusters of tiny recently hatched cats clustered on a leaf together, other than the larger cats. But several years ago I was lucky enough to catch a CP butterfly laying eggs. And yes, there were clusters of eggs on the underside of the leaf. Some books list the Spring Azure using Flame Acanthus plants, but these sure don't look like the azure cats in the book.

Also read that Banded Peacock (anartia fatima) uses plants from the acanthus family. Not sure if that butterfly gets up north where you are though.

Spring Azure...cats would be very small...typical hairstreak/blue body...but sure would be nice to see some of those!!!

Oh well, time will tell!!!

~ Cat

Was reading for any other BFs that would use Acanthus...found this article..a little more than halfway down the page on Flame acanthus:
http://www.npsot.org/Fredericksburg/newsletters2005/News_2005_08.htm

Yep Crimson Patch! (of course)
http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species?l=1716
also Texan Crescent:
http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species?l=1731

I spotted a Texan Crescent last week when I was buying Flame Acanthus ... :-) I happened to get a pic of it..

Here Cat had a pic of TC last November nectaring the Duranta:
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/TexasPuddyPrint_1163381207_580.jpg

Wonder if anyone is incubating on my new plant, lol!

Speaking of Texan Crescents...there are usually a couple of handfuls flitting around the front yard at the ranch. Took this photo on Saturday...there is also an Elada Checkerspot or something or other to the left...the species name eludes me.

Would be great if those cats were Texan Crescents...haven't seen any of those before....and too lazy to go out to the garage to get my cat book out of the vehicle :o)

~ Cat

Which Caterpillar book do you have Cat? As big as this book I have (checked out from the library) Texans aren't in it.... humm. Cats. of Eastern NA/ Wagner. It was the only cat book they had.
Also it would be nice to have a book that tells how they all pupate. This one doesn't.

I have "Caterpillars in the Field and Garden: A Field Guide to the Butterfly Caterpillars of North America" by Jim Brock, Thomas J. Allen and Jeffrey Glassberg. I also have Wagner's book too but use that mainly to ID moth cats. Brock's book is an excellent identification guide...I always keep it in my car and put it in my camera bag when I'm out butterflying. Brock's book shows a distribution map and lists the larval host plants. Good photos too. Oh and it mentions habitat and what months you are likely to find them.

You can probably get if for about $15 used (normally runs about $30) - it is the second best investment I made - the first of course, is my butterfly identification book - Kaufman Focus Guide (also by Jim Brock and Kenn Kaufman).

Brock and Glassberg come down to south Texas a few times a year. Brock is the one who identified the rare Marius Hairstreak caterpillars I found on my duranta. Nobody had ever photographed them before but he was able to narrow down the options based on our geographic area, larval host family and reviewing photographs I'd taken. :o)

~ Cat


~ Cat

Aha! Funny, the Texan Crescent is always around here in the warmer parts of the year. I like those. And yet, I've never ID'd any cats, oddly enough. I knew I had host plants, but didn't know about the Flame Acanthus being a host...not mentioned specifically in my books. Besides the photo in the Caterpillars in the Field and Garden book (excellent book), I found this one below. And it looks pretty darn close. Welll...cool! If they're Texan Crescent cats, the larger ones probably won't get much bigger, I would think. I wanted to see the Crimson Patch cats 'cause they're so cool looking toward the last instars, but had a feeling it was not...I seemed to remember that those CP cats when small had an annoying habit of jumping or falling off the plant with those silky things to connect them so they could return. And these don't have the silky "life lines".
http://www.dallasbutterflies.com/Butterflies/LARVA/texanalarva.html

This message was edited May 21, 2007 5:46 PM

Today I found cats that look much ike those on one False Mint (Dicliptera brachiata) plant, which is listed as a host plant for Texan Crescent. Seems to me that is most likely the species I've got! I'll bet the Texan Crescent population is really exploding this year and they are seeking out host plants that they don't normally use that much. Because I've had Flame Acanthus for a long time and never have seen them on it before.

This message was edited May 21, 2007 6:41 PM

I wonder what the Texas Crescent uses at the ranch. There are always some flitting about. I need to get a good south Texas native plant or weed book!!! Any good suggestions?

~ Cat

Cat, I have one, Field Guide to the Broad-Leaved Herbaceous Plants of South Texas by Everitt, Drawe and Lonard. Even where I live it can come in handy, since some of the plants are found here also...and on occasion, I do head south. I like its inclusion of the weedier species. Nothing mentioned about what butterflies or cats use....just talks about cattle, deer, quail, etc.

Have you checked the npot site Cat? http://www.npot.org and in the middle collumn select Best Butterfly Plants...It can help to give you some leads for looking deeper.
I'm afraid modern gardening has got it all backwards, and it takes a lot of untwisting to get the straight skinny...One of these years we need to all colaborate on a book especially for what we need to know, and what's been missing. 'Foolproof Butterfly Gardening',,,, cuz us foo's will have already worked it out.

Excellent website Deb...but alas...when I'm out at the ranch kind of hard to access the internet from the back forty...hmmm...wonder if I can plug the laptop into the windmill? :o)

Linda, I have that book...and a couple that cover native trees, cactus and shrubs. I ended up buying those fluorescent tags and tacking them onto the pages of plants/flowers that were larvals hosts...also wrote notes in my book (OMG!!! Had to look around to make sure there was no teacher looking over my shoulder ready to scold me for writing in a book!!! ROLF!!!)

I spent many an hour pouring over Brock's caterpillar book, Wagner's caterpillar book and also the butterfly kaufman guide scribbling notes in my plant books.

Have been prowling the internet for a book called Texas Wildflower: A Field Guide by Loughmiller...seems like it would help...but trying to find the 2006 edition at a cheap price :o)

...also I've whined numerous times to Mike Quinn, Texas Parks & Wildlife, Ro Wauer and a few others about publishing a book that showed butterfly larval host plants...and that much as I like deer and quail I want a book geared toward butterflies!!!

Maybe if we do some mass emailing to TPWD and those folks they'd consider it?

~ Cat

pssst...found that book Texas Wildflowers: A Field Guide by Loughmiller - the 2006 edition!!! on the walmart website. $14.97 plus 97 cents shipping. Hope it's a good book!!!

~ Cat

Me too Cat!! LMK how ya like it.


;-Deb

Deb, where did you find your Duranta, I have been looking for one.
Josephine.

Frost...I have some rooted durantas (purple blooms) that have a main stem about 12" to 18" long....if you're interested whacha got up for trade that are larval hosts?

~ Cat

This message was edited May 23, 2007 9:51 PM

HI Josephine!
I got the first one from Siggy last October..and the other 2 at Home Depot, (go figure).. they had White too. Way too tempting, but I resisted and stayed with the purple ones.
The one Siggy gave me came back up, and should be full by Summer's end. I probably shouldn't have cut it down to the ground, and just left the branches. Now I know~

I will try to root you some if you like.. Been wanting to do that anyway.

:-Deb

That would be great, in the meantime I will look at home depot.
Thank you very much.
Josephine.

Josephine, I've seen the purple at Lowe's.

Frostweed, do you propagate your Flame Acanthus? If so I would love a start of it. I don't think I have seen it in the nurseries, or maybe I have and didn't know what it was.

Thank you Fly-girl I will look there, they are so pretty, and they are native to Texas too.

Sheila, I will be gad to give a rooted Flame acanthus cutting, just say when.
Josephine.

Flame acanthus...another pretty plant. (jotting that one down to look for) : )

~Lucy

Josephine,
Thanks for the offer. I have two weeks before I go back to work, I just may come get that tour of your yard while I am off work. I will dmail you next week and see when would be a good time.
Sheila

Great, Looking forward to it Sheila.

Most have pupated and I'm waiting to see the butterflies. In the meantime, I found a bunch of new eggs on a False Mint plant. I assume they're the same species. The eggs are white, but take on a slight greenish tinge against the leaf.

Linda - You will just have to raise them to make sure! LOL! That's awesome .... more eggs, more cats, and more butterflies! Congrats on the wonderful find!!!

This message was edited Jun 9, 2007 4:43 PM

Here's a pic of an odd double-chrysalis from those cats.

Cat, I am sorry I missed your post of May 23rd, I appreciate the offer but shipping plants is risky and expensive. You are very sweet to offer.
Maybe another time, or maybe seeds.
I really didn't mean to ignore your post and I apologize.
Josephine.

Finally...two eclosed and here is the brand-new Texas Crescents! I really think they prefer the False Mint and just used the Flame Acanthus because the False Mint was somewhat eaten up in my yard. There's more of that by the dry creek but for some reason, I haven't seen cats on it down there. I've seen the False Mint in the yard looking ratty in past years, but didn't find any cats. Guess the cats were already gone.

Congratulations Linda!!! they are so pretty!!!
I hope I get some on my Flame acanthus too.
Josephine.