I have a pile of old bedding (pine shavings) with duck and chick poo in it.
I do not maintain the pile and its in different stages of decomposition although it doesn't appear to be hot or cooking. Its just a pile I dump dirty bedding when I clean out the coops. Its teeming with earthworms and black/dirt like where its the most decomposed. My ducks and chickens are always rooting and scratching around in that pile all the time for the worms.
Recently I lost a duck and chicken to what appears to be symptoms of botulism although it could be coccidiosis but I'm not sure. I do not have any contaminated standing water that the birds could get into or decomposing dead animals around which might be other sources of botulism. I'm just wondering if a pile of this nature could be a possible source of botulism.
Thanks for any input.
Botulism in manure pile? Need advise.
not at all an expert, but I believe we had a case of a baby getting botulism (recovered fine) when the mom got him too near her, moving mulch. Your question may be one for a vet.
Most vets are clueless when it comes to poultry and waterfowl diseases.
oh, sorry. I believe botulinum (hope I got that right) is anaerobic. course, can't guarantee a nice aerated pile doesn't have an anaerobic pocket.
I wonder if there's a forum for poultry.
There is a poultry forum here but i wanted to see if there was any compost pile experts here that might know if botulism could be found in a manure pile such as mine. i got to thinking a few times I have dumped duck pellets that got wet into the pile when cleaning out feed dishes so maybe the feed could got contaminated with botulism and the critters ate it.
Cottage Rose. . .
I live out in Hudsonville just south of GR by Sunrise Egg Farm/Patmos Feed and Grain. . .you could call them and ask them about the possibility of botulism. I think they are the biggest poultry producer in the area and could probably give you some info.
Thanks Naber!
botulinum is anaerobic -- and prefers acid. that is why they used to have cases of botulism poisoning from improperly canned tomatoes.
Most poultry are carriers of salmonella, giardiasis, etc. Botulism causes neurological damage, not diarhea, so I would have to ask you how it is that you arrived at the conclusion that your poultry died of botulinum poisoning?
I really didn't come to any conclusions that it was definately botulism but thought it might be a possibility. The 2 affected bird did suffer from paralysis. One had diarehea, one didn't.
WE GET TURKEY COMPOST IF THAT HELPS
Not sure what that last comment is suppose to mean??
CR
I asked Matt if it was possible and sent me this information regarding duck ailments - so I guess the answer is yes they can get it from decaying vegetable waste
Botulism
Symptoms: Loss of muscular control of legs, wings and neck - hence the term limberneck. Birds are unable to swallow.
Cause: Toxins produced by bacteria (Clostridia) in decaying animal and vegetable waste. The toxins cause the problem.
Treatment: Avoid problems by keeping ducks out of muddy/dirty areas, and stagnant pools, especially in hot weather. The bacteria multiply rapidly in warmer temperatures in anaerobic conditions (where oxygen is excluded). Give affected birds fresh drinking water. If necessary, introduce water into the mouth and throat with a syringe (no needle). A crop tube could be used with the advice of a vet. Add Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate, available from the High Street Chemist) to the water. This is an old remedy which is still used. Recommended amounts vary from 1 tablespoon in one cup of water to 1 ounce per 50 fluid oz ( two and a half pints) of water.
Thanks Dovey!
The afflicted birds didn't have the limber neck.
Won't know for sure unless another one croaks and I have a necropsy done. So far no more losses.
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