A recent post made me look at my compost pile....no worms!

Hi all -- a recent post here made me go out and look at my compost pile today and I am confused and surprised to note there were no worms in it and I wondered why. This pile is not finished compost by any means, but there still should be some worms munching away in there, shouldn't there?

I have 2 hot piles in the summer, but in the late summer and fall, it is mostly a cold leaf pile. There might be some grass in it in late summer, but as fall progresses, the % of grass clippings diminishes and it's just leaves, leaves and more leaves.

The pile is pretty big and I add kitchen scraps & coffee grounds during the winter by digging a little hole and burying them. I added some horse manure to the leaves to sort of hurry them along a little last fall and it stinks in a non-aerobic way.

The pile is cold. There is not one iota of heat that I could discern. The leaves are either composted or dark and slick and stuck together with other leaves. They are at the stage where if I mowed them with the mower or put a tiller on them, they'd look like compost/leaf mold. I couldn't find the kitchen scraps at all, but every so often there might be a slimey spot which I suppose was once carrots or melon or something.

I cannot understand why there are no worms there. I am missing something in the composting process but I can't figure out what it is. Temperatures have been in the 80s, but the pile felt cool to the touch, especially inside. It is much bigger than the preferred 3 x 3, and deep down it is clearly anerobic, but there weren't any worms anywhere, even toward the top. Is an anerobic pile unattractive to worms?

Any ideas for me? Besides turning the pile. I did that for a while today and it got pretty old, pretty fast, but I probably got 1/4 of the pile done. I'm just not sure how far in to the bottom I was able to get.

Suzy

Hi Suzy. I have some worms in mine--because I put them there. I've been making new flower beds and when I strip off the sod, I throw it in the compost bin. There are usually a couple of worms in the sod. They apparently like my compost because they have stayed put there and seem to be thriving.

One of these days, I want to try vermicomposting. The book "Worms Eat My Garbage" is a great book for learning about vermicomposting and the benefits worms provide. Maybe you could try adding worms from your yard to your compost pile and see what happens.

Kim

Yeah, I want to try vermicomposting, too, but it's like a fish aquarium.... a big commitment for somehting I may or may not follow through with.

I hate to throw worms in the pile if it's poisonous or something. There are a million worms in that area and if they're not where I think they should be, then I think something is very wrong.

Suzy

Maybe try a limited trial with say, 4-6 worms, and see how they do? I can't imagine that your compost pile is toxic.... Of course, I'm not an expert on the topic by any means.

Imeant to come back and edit my last post to read there are a lot of worms in the general area who could migrate there if they wished.

Yes, I ought to try to move a few over....I wonder how hard they'd be to find again? LOL. My neightbors already think I'm nuts, I'm sure.

Suzy

Oh my neighbors think I'm crazy too! I know the next door neighbor is deeply suspicious of me...after I asked her if I could please rake her leaves and remove them last autumn. I don't have any trees in my yard and wanted them for composting and for covering my hydrangeas. The neighbor said of course I could have them--but I know she thinks I've got a screw loose. :)

Oh, man, I never go to that kind of trouble. I wait for the neighbors to rake them and set them out by the street, then I go get them. I keep them in their plastic trash bags to use to cover the hydrangeas and other tender stuff in spring because they are nice and dry. After everything gets uncovered, they form the basis for the hot pile to mix with the grass clippings. Considering I have lots of large oaks and beeches, it is amusing to the neighbors that I could possibly have a need for more leaves, but it's all in the timing.

LOL--your neighbors have more "get-up'and-go" than mine! Only one of my neighbors actually raked and bagged their leaves--the rest just let 'em lie where they fell. The one that did rake and bag her leaves--they were magnolia leaves and not suitable for my purposes. I did get my brother's leaves that his boys raked and bagged--but they weren't enough, hence the appeal to the neighbor for hers....

I must have a screw loose too, because after the last rain we had, I was out on the lawn picking up the dew worms and adding them to my newly turned over compost/leaf pile.......

Really, I was recruiting new gardening assistants...... big, fat, juicy gardening assistants..... before the robins got them.

That's right! Save those worms--stop worm abuse by large fat birds! LOL

I seldom notice worms in my compost pile....though I notice plenty of them in my garden beds. I would not worry.

- Brent

If you are hot composting (sounds like you are) then worms will not be there - its too hot - out at the edges where its cooler you probably do have worms just not Alot.

Red wrigglers are the compost type and nightcrawlers are your "regular" you probably have more night crawlers then reds unless you also cold compost (lasagna).

Vermicomposting is not a big commitment if I can any one can. There are plenty of ways to get going for under $10 and its easy, & added bonus you can continue all winter long. I now have easy access to worms for when I go fishing.

Mean
Queen
Nadine

"I must have a screw loose too, because after the last rain we had, I was out on the lawn picking up the dew worms and adding them to my newly turned over compost/leaf pile.......

Really, I was recruiting new gardening assistants...... big, fat, juicy gardening assistants..... before the robins got them."

Don't feel bad, it just rained here and I was out looking for worms too. lol

I started out with a few scrawny ones, and a coupla weekends ago, I dug a trench down the middle to add more scraps and coffee grinds and filters. I had to put the shovel down, because I was tearing into these huge, beautiful, FAT worms! At least 5" or more! Everywhere I the yard i run across a worm, into the worm bin it goes.

At first, I too was confusing a worm bin with a hot compost pile. I kept tryin to "heat it up," til it was explained to me that worms wouldn't like the heat. So I quit trying. Now, I just add the table scraps and the coffee grinds to the almost-decomped leaves and grass. I started out with a layer of shredded paper from the office, and alternate layers of leaves and grass clippings. Started feeding just a little bit till I determined the worms were keeping up with the food. I've turned it 2 or 3 times, and yes, this is hard work. Except now I've discovered a tool called a compost fork which makes the job much lighter. Trying to pick up wet paper, leaves and grass with a shovel will break your back!!! I have a 3-pronged fork and I just sorta rake everything around, pulling forward and pushing back. This gives enough oxygenation to the pile to keep it fresh. And keeping it damp enough for the worms, and damp enough to keep the ants from setting up house, too.

Today, I'm just throwing in table scraps at will, and lots of it! The worms must be down there cause it's taking no time for the scraps to disappear. And, I learned they LOVE coffee grinds, so I'm adding much java to the pile. They've text-messaged all their friends to come move into their new condo!

Hope this helps.

Gymgirl - you do realize that most gardens have more then one type of worms - nightcrawlers and red wrigglers are predominate. Nightcrawlers do not belong in a worm bin - just the smaller Red Wriggler is appropriate for the bin.........I am sure you know this but anyone who comes along might get confused........

What's wrong with nightcrawlers in the bin? I read somewhere they break down the stuff, too, only slower...

Choosing The Right Worm For The Job

At this point, it's time to arrange to get some worms. What worms, you ask? Well, it's very useful to place earthworms into three distinct categories, according to their habitats in nature:

* Deep burrowers, like nightcrawlers. These are NOT good for vermicomposting, because they need to spend most of their time in their deep and cool underground burrows.
* Soil mixers, that live in the root zone of plants, where they eat decaying organic matter and mix soil layers. These are also NOT good for vermicomposting.
* Surface dwellers, like redworms, that eat organic matter that falls onto the soil surface, such as leaves, fruit, manure, etc. These worms have adapted perfectly to the job of cleaning up waste.

I stole the above from here......

http://www.allthingsorganic.com/How_To/02.asp

This site http://www.co.mecklenburg.nc.us/Departments/LUESA/Solid+Waste/PLANT+Program/Vermiculture.htm
Just says...Worm farming uses a special "composting'" worm, the redworm or "red wiggler" (Eisenia fetida). Night crawlers are great in the garden, but won't do the job in the worm bin.

I checked the temp in my compost heap this morning, MAN it's HOT!

I don't think that worms would care to live in that sauna, at least until it's cooled down.....

I receive a newsletter from http://www.wormfarmingsecrets.com/members/wormfarming
and in one of the Newsletter is stated : "As mentioned in my "best worms" article in terms of overall versatility, the European
Nightcrawler (Eisenia hortensis) and/or the Red Worm (Eisenia fetida) - also known as 'Red Wiggler' - will almost always be your best choices."

One may be a little better but from the above they are both good.
The letter is speaking of vermicomposting but both worms are good in the garden or compost pile.

This message was edited Apr 27, 2008 6:12 AM

I hot compost in summer. A few days ago it was 145 degrees. I almost never see worms in there, except maybe way at the bottom, like the bottom few inches. My garden is literally crawling with worms.

I just let it sit and cold compost in winter, and when I open it in spring, the compost is crawling with worms, too. I think it is too hot for the worms in summer, and they are free to go there if they so choose. I would never throw worms into my compost. It's there for them to find if they find conditions desirable, but I believe that most of the year it is way too hot.

Karen

Just wanted to suggest another way to boost the earthworm population in your compost-pile. I started making Bokashi* in 5-gallon buckets this winter and sticking this into one of my three compost bins. All the bins stay relatively cool all winter. When I went out to turn the compost last week (for the first time this spring) I found literally hundreds of nightcrawlers busily eating up the fermented food scraps I'd tucked into the layers of leaves in the bin, and turning them into rich dark compost. I couldn't believe how many there were in each scoop of my compost-fork. The other two bins without Bokashi were relatively unpopulated.

*I learned about Bokashi, a Japanese method of fermenting ALL your table scraps, from a helpful article in DG:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/109/

One need not purchase any worms to supliment the normal creation and use of compost piles. When the conditions are to their liking either or both will enter the picture. In a general sense the red worms harvest the piles. When the piles get absolutely finished the garden type worms will move in. As the organic content of a patch increases so will the worm population. Some coffee grounds seem to attract the garden types even more than finished compost.

When the compost is placed on the soil the garden types will immediately begin to work the soil providing the compost is absolutely finished and the soil moisture is suitable to the worms. Light mulches will keep the moisture to the worms liking longer. The garden types feed heavily on the smallest form of your patch biology. The red worms, first to appear in a pile will either go somewhere else or die in place which is part of natures plan. The will also leave eggs that will hatch again when the pile make up is satisfactory to their needs.

The only thing that will change the above oversimplified statement is the presence of the manufactured fertilizers and retension of the harsh chemicals often used in gardening.