Sad about my lasagna beds

Well, sorry about this, maybe I should have known - or understood better what I read.

I worked very hard at making two big lasagna beds last fall, put in a lot of stuff on top of cardboard, leaves, straw, cow manure, horse manure, coffee grounds. Maybe I did not finished them up correctly, but the top is still undecomposed, lots of straw on the one bed, and manure and leaves on the other. Also the coffee grounds sort of collected in depressions and crusted over and I watered and sprayed them several times to try and distribute them.

I decided to dig down and turn the corner of one of them over, but the soil underneath is wet and very heavy and like putty (last heavy rain last weekend).

Now it is time for me to start planting. I think I can plant transplants into holes that I would fill with compost (pure compost?), but how about green beans?

HELP! Any advice??

That's the way plants are planted in heavy clay areas. It's not ideal but you should dig a "ten dollar hole for a one dollar plant" as they say and use a good compost based soil in the hole.

The danger of this is that now you have essentially created a pot with no drain holes, the pot being the surrounding soil. You just have to be very careful not to overwater. And hopefully your bed is not at a low point in your yard - this mistake has even ruined many professional gardens.

i'd just let the soil dry out then plant. I wouldn't ever plant in pure compost. you need soil. If you must plant maybe dig a small hole and put in bagged soil
the only problem of digging a ten dollar hole, as in the vernacular of the mastercard commercial is that your own soil maybe as they say priceless!
You needn't worry about a clay pot with no drain holes, unless this area always has
standing water long after a rain. The only pure clay soil would be hard pan clay and it
pools water long after a rain and gets hard as concrete when its dry. It may have much more clay than silt or sand but if you look around and there is plenty of vegetation and you don't live in a clay-pan desert you're probably ok.
and eventually all your organic matter will get blended and your soil will be more amenable. just my opinion and can be persuaded otherwise.

Not to be nit picky here but you can plant in pure compost - it's done all the time with food crops and annuals. The only disadvantage is that it will lose 50% of it's volume over time and that is why it's not exclusively for perennial beds. Of course the person should mix some of the bed soil or native soil in - it's always better this way if the native soil is any good at all.

I have seen problems when there is a huge difference in the water retention of the original root ball vs. the surrounding soil - ie. the roots may rot in the original root ball and never make it to the lighter surrounding soil because the amount of water applied to the lighter, well draining soil is too much for the high clay root ball. Obviously, the opposite problem would be just as bad and probably more common- watering enough to keep a very porous root ball wet would cause surrounding clay to be so wet as to rot any roots that might make it outside the root ball. I just say this because this is the logic behind the large hole method but of course it assumes your native soil is of poor quality.

BTW, I have dug up poor performers and seen the problems above with my own eyes - namely root rot in the root ball or more commonly in surrounding clay. It was very educational. In the case of a clematis that for some strange reason was potted in clay by the nursery, I could see that a few roots made it to my surrounding compost based soil and were very long and fine but most of them were still locked inside the clay root ball and horribly rotted.

The only reason I mentioned the pot analogy because the person said the soil underneath (which I assume is the native soil) is like wet putty. That's exactly what my native soil is like all of the time and it will only support plants that are known to do well in clay.

So in the end, my advice was based on the assumption that the lasagna bed is currently useless. Of course after a while I'm sure it will be in great shape and planting it will only hasten that. In fact letting it sit without planting and possibly dry out would be the worst thing you could do. I have made that mistake also.

I have soil that was taken out elsewhere on the property. It may be weedy, but I don't mind weeding all that much.

So how this sound: I'll stir up the lasagna stuff, then make a slight trench where I want to put beans, and mix in soil and compost. Over the next couple of months perhaps everything will rot together some more, esp. since I will have to water the crop.

For tomatoes, I could do the same except in a hole rather than a trench.

By the fall the lasagna stuff will have rotted some more and I will add more on top.

Regarding the $10 hole (which my gardening guru calls the million dollar hole), I was told that it's essential for longevity to use 30% native soil with the remainder being a mix of peat and compost, etc. My area has extrememly heavy clay and I guess by mixing in a portion of the clay with the "good stuff" it helps to acclimate the plant's roots to our poor soil.

Clementine,

I don't know much about those crops but I think they are usually grown in 12" raised beds. So as long as you have 12" x 12" of good soil for the roots to extend into you should be fine.

And Lala_Jane, I generally agree with your statement especially for landscape type plants that can tolerate somewhat heavy soils. When I talk about soils, I'm mostly thinking of plants like peonies, clematis, various bulbs etc. which are very sensitive to rot. As I said, my soil fails the drain test miserably and I have tried using the dig a hole and amend method. It can work, but a raised bed with well draining soil makes it a real no brainer. And I'm puzzled by people that say it's expensive. Virtually all garden amendments are $30-35/yard. My 500 sq ft bed required about 10 yards. I spent much more than that on plants.

Clementine: I wonder what went "wrong" with your lasagna bed. I have used similar methods (different mix of ingredients) to help transform clay soil that had to be broken up with a pick axe into wonderful soil that I can dig in with my hands. Has the cardboard and the lowers layers broken down? What month did you start your lasagna bed? My only suggestions would be to be patient, continue adding organic matter and it would not hurt to use a digging fork to loosen the underlying soil.

- Brent

Brent: I started the bed last fall and put the last layer on - I think - in November. I think part of the problem may have been that the leaves from the municipal pile were too big, even though they were last year's. I have not stuck my hand in to see whether the cardboard has broken down, but my guess is that it has. I did see an earthworm today pretty much at the top, so that is a good sign.

So, what I have done now is this: I made a little trench, maybe 4 inches deep, put in some top soil from another place on the property, added a little compost and sowed green beans into it. In the second bed, I made pockets of the same mixture and put in some peppers and an eggplant. They look good so far, it has been only four days.

I think this method will work, unless the roots get unhappy not finding good soil to grow into. But I am hopeful. All the while, the lasagna stuff will be decomposing further and perhaps providing purchase for the roots.

I have used this "pocket" method in other places too and the plants seem to be doing ok. The problem we are having here is quite a drought and hot, brilliant sunshine - but hoping for a little rain tonight.

Next week I will plant my wintersown tomatoes - I am running a bit late, I know.

I want you to know that today my good DH brought me about 8 tractor scoops of mixed old and new horse manure - and there is more. I'll turn it a couple of times before the fall and add a layer of it on all my beds.