Concerning mail order nurseries

Hi,
Isn't it easy to shop online :*) That is what I did last year for the first time, and for the most part the experience was ok. However, after I ordered I realized that some of the local growers/stores had the same plants in bigger pots at 50% to 75% less than the mail order place. That is the cost of the plant, not even including shipping. This past year I started to browse more online nurseries and started to notice huge price differences in plants and s&h between stores.

So here is the deal, I found a few that seem to have many plants available and decent reviews. What I can not figure out is how and why do these stores charge so much for plants and shipping? I am missing something that justifies charging $12 to $16 a plant with no guarantee of replacement? I thought $8 was expensive last year :*) I would like to order online, but at that cost per plant and expensive shipping, ouch!
I would like to get some feedback on the mechanics/theory of online nurseries. The price spread between stores is quite confusing also...

Good day,
Andrew

I've noticed the same thing. And I've decided to choose plants online, but wait to buy them from local garden centers. Oh, maybe I'll buy just one, like this http://www.gardencrossings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.detail/prodID/100059/index.htm, to keep me happy till it's time to buy in my zone.

I agree, I've also found the online places are generally more expensive for smaller plants. I look at them as sources for things that I can't find locally, then I don't mind if I'm paying a higher price. Or sometimes there are plants that I can only find locally in 15 gal container size or larger for $40+, and I'll buy it online from someone who has a smaller one for $10 or so just because I don't want to deal with the cost and difficulty of the larger size plant. My thought is that there must be something about the mail order business that does create additional cost--maybe it's that they end up having to spend more money replacing plants since no matter how good a job you do packing some plants are going to end up damaged at the other end on occasion, or they have additional staff that a regular nursery wouldn't have since instead of you coming in and picking out your own plants, they need to have someone go find the plants you ordered, then pack them up to get them ready to ship (yes, many charge a packing fee, but I'm sure that doesn't come close to covering the actual salary of the person who has to go find the plants that you want and pack them up nicely). Or it could be something else, but I think the costs of running a mail order business must be higher for some reason because I've visited a couple places that have both mail order and retail, and the in-person prices are always better than the mail order prices.

Andrew - As far as why do online places charge so much for plants, I think they have to build in their guarantee replacements/cost for acquiring new plants with fewer wholesale sellers/general innefficiency/shiny new catalogs once a month and so on. Shipping, well the handling part of that sort of is a filler fee. A lot of shoppers will choose online shopping for ease or lack or plant sellers nearby.

I play your game every year trying to guess if a new plant I want will be available locally that year or not, I wouldn't say I have it down yet either and am usually suprised by something.

Let me know what you are looking for and I'll keep an eye out for you.

Thanks for the offer Al. I will have to semi-finalize my list. I haven't gardened enough to know what is sold locally and what is unusual. It is so tempting to order from online nurseries that have vast selections, until I get sticker shock :*)
I think what I am getting at is, do the GardenCrossings, Plantdelights & other pricey nurseries of the world offering something special in quality or service? Perhaps it is the cost of having a large variety? I am just curious I guess...

Andrew

I don't know anything about Garden Crossings, but with Plant Delights they do tend to specialize in things that are rarer and harder to find, so that explain why their prices tend to be higher. And their plants tend to be a little larger in size than some of the mail order places I've ordered from, so that could be part of it also. Their quality is great too, but I haven't noticed that the high quality mail order nurseries necessarily charge any more than the lower quality ones for equivalent plants.

Garden Crossings sends big, healthy plants. I've bought from them for the last couple of years, and it does save me the gas money, which at this point is pretty sizable. They carry "new and unusual perennials, shrubs and clematis vines." But we have a lot of garden centers around here that offer all the new stuff too. So this year I'll spend more on the gas and save some on online plants.

Ecrane, I think you're right about size. Some of them send smaller plants, but the S & H is the same. One mail order house that sends great smaller plants is Bluestone Perennials. Costs are reasonable there, too.

And Bluestone has great sales! I got half price plants last summer and they all did wonderfully.

Lana

Andrew, I'm super cheap and compare prices everywhere and also have noticed, even among mail order vendors, a huge difference in prices. As you shop more, you'll see what you know you can pick up at good prices locally and what is special enough to splurge more on. And it is definitely always best to check the Watchdog before ordering. If you're just getting your feet wet gardening, its good to experiment with the less expensive stuff.
Neal

Don't forget: if you find a plant that has a questionable price, post it on the forums and ask if it's fair. Everyone here is SO helpful and we love to give our opinions!! After you post, someone here may have an excess plant, of what you are looking at, to trade.

One of my favorite places online is Lazy SS Farms; however, their shipping is very high. The plants are wonderful and are shipped very well protected. In fact, I would say the packaging is one of the best I've seen. I haven't looked at their site this year yet, but I recall most plants ran about 6.95.

I agree that you should buy plants locally if you can find them. It's too bad that the local nurseries don't have plant lists on their websites.

I went to Plant Delights yesterday for their open house. I live fairly close so I go often. They have a spectacular garden and do lots of plant trials for hardiness and testing what does well here in the south. I think their prices have to compensate for all that research they do and that it's worth it for many of us here in this part of the country. I've found that alot of the plants they sell can be found locally for less and many are only available in larger sizes for higher prices. So I guess what I've learned is not to buy on impulse.

I agree with what chamthy wrote about nurseries like plant delights.They not only do research but they are also responsible for many new introductions that are available not only to the wholesale trade.There are very few places still in business who do what they do and I for one want to support them in my humble way by buying a few plants each year.

I also agree that plants that are in wide distribution at lower costs should be bought locally.Beware however that many big chains offer plants will not thrive in your area.

I am a bit isolated out on the Outer Banks; we only have a couple of gardening centers. And I find it absolutely exhausting going to the Center to look for specific plants. Which is why I buy mine on line. Bluestone Perennials is very reasonable; replace everything I kill; and have wonderful coupons they include with every order; often my orders are large enough that I do not pay any shipping at all. There has been a time or two that I have found prices cheaper elsewhere. And I go to the more expensive places if I am looking for a specific plant that BP does not have. I usually use Santa Rosa for grasses; And if you want to buy in quantity Graceful Gardens has excellent prices on their flats and I find their quality excellent. So it depends on how you want to garden. If you are into designing you're more likely to find what you want on line. If you're into building by instinct, go to your local garden center. Sue

ECrane3 ~

I'm not good at those conversions either...I just remember that things that I've gotten from them have been bigger than things I've gotten from places like Bluestone, etc.

Yes, Plant Delights is so much more than a vendor; I love 'em! I'm cheap, so I don't get much, but what I have has looked great, and I love the catalog. For me, buying locally is a double edged sword. I impulse buy too many things I did'nt need, often because I did'nt find the things I was looking for. But then, there's nothing more fun than nursery hopping!

That's so true! I have been tempted to buy from them, particularly Brent & Becky's Bulbs, because I can't find anything locally at the times I think of buying bulbs (in the dead of winter is too late) LOL.

Well, since we're talking about mail order and several people have mentioned shipping charges. I just have to say that I am somewhat appalled at the shipping Annie's Annuals charges. (Yeah, this is a perennial forum but they do sell those too, lol). To ship anything, even one little 3" pot to anywhere east of the Mississippi is 27.95 because they will only ship by air. I can understand that during the summer months but right now is perfectly fine to ship ground from the west coast. Especially to areas in the south that don't get the freezing weather. That's how Forest Farm does it....they allow ground shipping to the east during the cooler months. That has always worked fine for me and I have ordered from them several times. I would love to place an order from Annie's but I refuse to pay close to $30 shipping!! Just something I needed to get off my chest. Thanks for listening.
Theresa

Maybe that is to discourage people from ordering?

...Or probably to discourage ordering small quantities. I'd rather see them have a minimum # of plants per order. Does Annies Annuals sell seeds? A lot of her stuff are reseeding annuals, so seed may be the way to go.

LOL I meant to write, to discourage orders from far-flung customers. Not a well-thought out strategy IMHO.

LOL, PG

I find it kind of bizarre that some of the lower priced nurseries will replace plants that die but the high priced ones will not. At first I thought the higher prices for online/catalog plants were to cover the guarantees, but now I am seeing that the high priced stores don't even have guarantees beyond the fact that the plants will show up healthy.
I guess in the end it depends if someone wants to be an armchair shopper or run around to a 1/2 dozen or more stores...:*)

I think some of the higher priced nurseries are the smaller specialty type places, and it doesn't make economic sense to replace plants that died because the recipients didn't take care of them properly. Larger businesses can afford to have a more generous replacement policy, but the smaller places probably can only afford to replace things when it's actually their fault it died. If the plants show up healthy and then die a month or two later, it's mostly likely not the company's fault and if you run a smaller business you can't afford to replace things like that. Plus when you compare local to mail order, with mail order you're much more likely to run into people buying plants that are totally inappropriate for their climate, which increases the chances that something will not have the conditions it needs, vs local nurseries are more likely to stock plants that are more appropriate for the location and therefore more likely to survive.

With some of the pricier offerings, sometimes the plant is finiky and takes some know how to grow it. Plant Delights warns if the plant is for the seasoned gardener, which I like. Sadly, a lot of places do not.

I worked at a garden center that would replace anything but dogwoods, azaleas, rhododendrons, and roses.

This message was edited Mar 6, 2007 10:06 AM

ecrane - there's a BIG echo in your computer LOL.

Hmmm...I swear I only clicked send once! My computer must have had gremlins in it this morning

And they've got 11 more days before the holiday! LOL

I deal with SpringHill for this very reason. Their gaurantee states they will replace any plant - for any reason- even if the dog dug it up! They have some limitations re variety, but the replacement factor gives me peace of mind. And they do live up to it.

I have ordered from springhill the last two years and was very surprised both times by the quality of plant that was sent.

Really? They used to be so bad, puny plants and terrible customer service. They must have been bought by somebody else.

I am currently in love with Lazy S's- I ordered Hedychium coccineum 'Peachy Keen' and Bletilla stricta 'Alba Variegata' from Debby in November. Having never had either of those plants before, it wasn't until last week that I realized that both had been mislabeled, and were both Bletilla stricta. I emailed Debby, not expecting much, since the order was from four months ago, but she is adding the missing plants with my next order. Above and beyond customer service!

Plant Delights is dangerous, but I do like the selection of unusual plants.

Forest Farm has a great selection of Acers, and the plants are very healthy.

I have ordered a lot from Annie's Annuals, as she has Echiums that NO one carries in this area, and again, great quality of plants.

I have learned, however, to call my local nurseries and ask them about certain plants, since it always seems that some new cultivar that I want desperately shows up the summer that I've ordered that plant online and spent a ton for a tiny plant!

Interesting comments about the online plant sales... Of course, I'm trying not buy any plants but learn to grow from seed, but we all know how that goes when a neat website comes up or a pretty catalog appears in the mailbox! But I did just run across a site that offered seeds and charged $30 for shipping them! They said it was to discourage people from ordering them! I should say so!

I think Bluestone can keep their prices down because they sell small plants (quick turnover) three at a time (ups the total sale amt to a decent level) and they sell mostly (it appears to me) unpatented, easy to grow plants (except for some Blooms of Bressinghams). They don't bother to stock the rarer stuff or fund a big research program, and so on. Like Forest Farm or Plants Delight (where I expect to pay a premium for their stylish 'cutting edge' offerings and their other not so cutting edge offerings (kind of like buying clothes at Saks Fifth Avenue).

I think Annie's Annuals doesn't really want to bother with far flung shipping. They are pretty happy just doing business in the bay area and the west coast. And shipping to the east coast in winter is fraught with opportunity for catastrophe--plants sitting in a UPS truck in the middle of a cold snap or a warehouse in Indiana waiting for a transfer presents a range of issues. (And do you grow Echiums in the midwest? Very cool to have a Pride of Madeira in the garden!)

I like to support local nurseries/growers for the more interesting stuff and then I am shameless about watching for local plant sales and bargaining for almost dead plants. So much fun to do that!

Intercessor, welcome to DG and to gardening. You will find as you become more tuned in here you won't ever have to buy a plant again. There will be lots of offers to share extras for postage, not to mention learning how to propagate them yourself!

I bought plants in person from Plant Delights Nursery last fall. Today I have looked at all the PDN information and there is not one thing that states that there will be a replacement if the plants die (or have already died). These were unusual plants and I want them to survive !!!!!! I won't be able to find them anywhere else.

Karin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Karin, one time I ordered a few things from Plant Delights and UPS ignored the note to leave the package for 3 consecutive days, which of course resulted in losing one of the plants. They replaced it without hassle. I don't believe they guarantee them beyond arriving in good condition though, especially since many of their offerings are novel and require special treatment.

I have bought from a few catalogues. I expect to receive the plant in good condition. Shipping problems are why you pay for insurance.

I am one of those that would NOT expect them to make a dead plant good after it had been in my care for a period of time. There are too many variables like soil, moisture and climate to name just a few.

Every time a company has to replace a plant, their cost of doing business increases and that is paid by us, the consumer. If they have too many losses, they close their doors. Not what any gardener wants to see...

I bought 3 trilliums from plants delight 3 years ago.They were in the dormant state.Only 2 came up in the spring.I called and they gave me credit for the plant because it was out of stock.They would have offered me a refund had I wanted it.

I have ordered from Forest farm and Bluestone extensively.I am trying to stop now and start most plants from seed or by propagation but I can't resist Bluestone's 50% off sale.

We now have 2 good nurseries in the area and I prefer to buy local if I can.

One more thing.I gave my son a $100 gift certificate to Annies Annuals last year.He didn't use it because he moved from Berkley to SF.I don't think I will have any trouble using it.

Oh I forgot,I love raintree nursery for fruit trees and berries even though they are so far away.

And ofcourse there are the co-ops at DG

Definitely don't expect mail order nurseries to offer those lifetime guarantees on plants like Home Depot, etc do...someone running a small business can't afford to pay for everyone else's black thumbs, growing plants in climates they're not really suited for, etc, etc. Any reputable mail order place will replace things that are DOA or in really poor shape when they arrive, but once the plants arrive at your house in good condition, it's really up to you to keep them alive from then on.

tabasco- I grow Echium as an annual, although I am overwintering some 'Blue Bedder' in my garage. I've grown E. wildprettii from seed, and have some big specimens, but I also have a greenhouse to keep them happy : )
'Blue Bedder' seeded in my garden last summer, so we'll see if any other volunteers shoot up this spring. Very doubtful, but possible.
I have encountered some m.o. nurseries, such as Cactus Collection, that won't hold orders until late April/early May, so I just wait until then to order. I don't know if Annie does. She does charge a ton, but she's the only place I've found that has Echium plants, rather than seed.