Spring is on its way

The Robins are migrating through Central Alabama this week, searching for protein to fuel their trip northward to the MidWest. They leave a mess, but they do a great surface tilling in our garden and shrub beds. The scouts passed through awhile back, but this is the first mass we've seen. Yesterday the trees had leaves again (that moved and flew away). Be ye not gloomy; sunshine and warm weather will get to you. This just a bit of a morale booster from a tranplanted Hoosier, loving it in Dixie. Peace.

Thank you for posting the good news. Can't wait for the spring to come up here!

Interesting note about the Robins. I counted more than 50 Robins in my back yard early this morning. It's the first time in about 6 weeks that the ground hasn't been frozen and it's quite wet and muddy, which is what I suspect attracted them all to it to feed. Another note on spring, we're expecting our first chance of severe weather tonight (hail and/or tornadoes). I like the spring storms, but not the hail and tornadoes!

For some reason robins remain here all winter. About three weeks ago, in a really cold period, they finally decided the berries on my Nandina were "ready," in fifteen minutes ten or twenty robins cleaned it of all berries.

Weather has broken here too. Almost all the snow and ice are melted, and a week of daytime temps above freezing (sometimes well above freezing) are forecasted. But I'm not fooled. March is wicked month with wildly oscillating weather. We'll get more snow and ice, I'm sure, but I'm enjoying this time while I can.

Scott

Robins never completely leave here all winter also, but I usually only see them in much smaller numbers, like in groups of 6 or 7 or so. I think many migrate, but some don't, if I recall what I've read before in bird books.

I have plenty of Robins in my yard, although not as many as a month ago. They sure make a raucous digging through the leaves.

E-guy, just think of all those leaves they are mixing into your soil! The first of the week, most of them will be gone from our neighborhood, and I will get out and begin the clean-up. I do love to watch them, though. We only have a few that are with us year 'round.

Spring? What's that? We are expecting an ice storm tonight and tomorrow. Havn't seen a Robin but others say they are around. I did have seven pairs of cardinals in the feeders at dusk last night. They feed together when not nesting and territorial. I havn't even seen the tiniest crocus poke up yet.

I'm no bird expert, just someone who pays attention to them whenever I can, but I never see a time here when Cardinals aren't territorial. 2 males really got into a spirited battle around my feeder last week. Maybe they become less territorial when the winter weather is more severe? Hhmm....maybe I'm getting off on a bird tangent here. Wrong forum for this I think.

Interesting kman_blue. This is spring related. Maybe if I can get enough light for the shot I will try to grab a pic. They do all come at just dusk and they are in various feeders and evergreens. I am pretty confidant I can get two or maybe three males in close proximity in a weeping hemlock. This is a 25 footer that shelters the feeders. We call it bird central. Just keep on saying spring will arrive soon.

Thanks, Kman, I posted about the robin migration because I love to see them come through, but I also posted it here to see how long it would take a "regular" to say the subject is on the wrong forum. Just havin' a bit of fun. It does seem to me that trees, shrubs and birds are interrelated, at least a bit.:)) Folk, Thanks for the comments, I've enjoyed them.

I just saw Robins today...but it seems here that the ground hog was wrong.

This Cardinal couple has been visiting my feeder all winter, and whenever another male Cardinal has even approached the feeder, the male has been off to meet him. I've seen a few other couples of Cardinals around, but none comes to the feeder or even spends much time in my yard until they're met by the resident male of my yard. The fight a couple weeks ago seems to have been a rogue male Cardinal without a partner who came to the feeder. I've got a similar bird central which shelters my feeders, but it's a grove of large Rhododendrons about 9' tall. (ok, large for Kansas, but not for other parts!) Another weird note, which might have to do with spring, I had a flock of about 100 starlings (mixed with about 20 grackles) descend on my yard yesterday morning, displacing the robins, which broke up into much smaller flocks.

Well, on a non-bird related spring note, we had our first round of thunderstorms and tornadoes Friday night and Saturday. Luckily the only tornado to hit was 75 miles away and it wasn't too big, but it did destroy some buildings.(no injuries) All of my bulbs have had foliage above ground for about 1 1/2 months, even when the ground was frozen for much of that time. But no flowers, other than on my Witchazels. Interestingly my 'Diane' started out in it's usual brick red color, but since the 36 day cold snap hit, it's flowers are now a yellow-orange, much lighter than I've ever seen before.

peony01, I agree that birds and trees and shrubs are related. Many very important trees and shrubs partially or totally rely on birds for their seed dispersal! So, maybe this isn't too off forum.

There have been flocks of robins around SE Michigan off and on most of the winter, had a flock of 15-20 at least next to my house last week. They are not yet the real migrating males from the south though. Those birds are readily identified when they show up -- the males are more vividly marked, and they show up as a vanguard before the females, uniform flocks of all brightly colored robins. There are song sparrows around here too -- those may be early returned residents.

But there ain't NO other sign of spring here right now. Grumble - groan - bah humbug. Snow and ice today. 3 inches of snow expected tonight. This weekend WAS supposed to be in the 40s with rain, forecast at the beginning of the week. But that did not materialize and the weather was colder and snowier than expected. Usually there is skunk cabbage in bloom now, but not this year.

I had some witchhazels in bloom in January before the big freeze set in. A couple of hellebores too. On the few hamamelis the deer didn't eat all the buds off of, there are only a couple of H. mollis that are just beginnning to show a tiny bit of color if you look close.

I have also noticed that this winter seems to have been hard on plants. Must be the relentless cold of the past 6 weeks. Even though we did not have low temps that were all that low (-5F I think), the temps were in the less-than-10-degree=F range for several weeks (yes, day and night), and at least a month went by with not a single day above freezing. Lots of wind too. That unyielding cold is unusual I think.

I noticed my large Cedrus libanii stenocoma has browned out a fair number of needles this year. It will be fine, I am sure, lost all its needles one of the first couple years I had it, and by June looked as prisitine as ever. Interesting, a plant 1/2 the size (8' maybe) nearby looks as good as new. So does my Cedrus deodora 'Karl Fuchs', planted in a slightly more protected spot -- not a brown needle on it. Go figure. That's why I push the hardiness envelope -- I have learned that plants don't read the books and behave as they are predicted to, much of the time.

The broad leaved evergreens here look a little bedraggled too, none worse than Magnolia grandiflora 'Tony', a supposedly very hardy form collected and grown from seed stock at the most northern end of the species range and propagated by Arrowhead Alpines. Every leaf is brown. Oh well, if you "push the envelope", then you have to expect some seams to bust....

david5311 about the Cedrus - I have a spot I want to fill that has a western exposure with moderate wind. Spread can be 15, height no limit. Any suggentions with your experience?

I never knew about the

I'll sure be glad when Spring finally arrives. This has been an exceptionally cold winter here in Kansas City, MO. It wasn't a good year to experiment with some marginally hardy plants that I planted late last year. Namely a Red-Tipped Photinia and 3 Crape Myrtles, I'll be surprised if they are alive. I planted them on the South side of my mobile home and mulched them, so maybe they will just die back. I still have a couple hundred plants in pots outside, I expect many of them to be expired now as well. Though what I have left made it thru previous Winters, so they may have done better than that, only time will tell.
Pretty soon the plants wll be getting buds and I can see what made it and what didn't.
On a side note, Missouri's daylight savings time has been moved way up, by 3 weeks or so, so thats a good thing anyway. I've also avoided falling on the ice and busting my you know what this year.
Will

Will,

I wouldn't think your Red-Tipped Photinia is in any real danger, unless your area is very wind exposed. My 12' tall Red-Tipped Photinia doesn't have a scratch on it. Also, remember that Crepe Myrtle sometimes don't leaf out until nearly June 1 in some years and particularly on some cultivars, so don't write them off until at least the 1st week of June! My worst Crepe Myrtle damage was from a record late cold in early March one year, in which some of them didn't send out new growth until the 1st week of August!(others leafed out normally in May and some others leafed out in June, and some died back to the roots) So, I'd be surprised if yours have been killed outright. Maybe some top damage, or even die back to the roots if your area is exposed enough.

Good luck with all your other plants!

To my knowledge, if you want a cedrus, Cedrus libanii v stenocoma is the only one which the books and other typical references say is zone 5 hardy. And I suspect that it may only really be zone 5b hardy. You are definitely pushing the envelope with Cedrus in zone 5. The v. stenocoma is supposed to come from the high mountains of Lebanon I think and so has more cold hardiness than other members of this species. I have seen one at Hidden Lake Gardens in S Michigan about an hour from me. It is about 30-40' tall and has obviously been there for quite a while. The conifer curator there says that the plant "browned out" and lost its needles the first 5 years or so but has since never missed a beat. Though it is actually farther south, it may really be a little colder there than where I am since we are close to lake Erie here than there, and the hardiness zone maps put us right on the border of z 5b and 6a (the new one, I think, puts us solidly in z 6a). I have had mine for at least 6-7 years and it got moved a year ago last fall so probably is not yet rooted in fully. But it is 15' or more tall and is a keeper for the long haul I think/

Cedrus deodora is generally considered only zone 7 hardy so is clearly a risk or frankly foolish for a zone 5er. The selection 'Karl Fuchs' is also a mountain plant I think and I have seen it listed as zone 6. I was lucky enough to find a pretty good sized one at a local nursery which carries lots of rare woodies, and it has been through 3 winters in my new garden without a scratch. Seems to be thriving.

But a site for "moderate wind" and "spread maximum 15' "??? I don't think you want a cedrus. Marginal plants usually do not want to be sited in windy spots, since winter wind and frozen ground are what would spell death for a plant that doesn't really want that climate anyway. And if you have ever seen mature cedrus, they will really start to spread after they have a few years in the ground. They will stay somewhat conical/pyramidal when young, but spread mightily as they age. The one at Hidden Lake Gardens easily has a 25' spread, and the much of the charm and beauty of even a middle aged plant is the wide spreading form. So it would not be a good choice for a narrow spot anyway.

As far as the robins are concerned, in the south and mid-eastern states, robins are regularly present all winter and so the "flock" effect of seeing breeding plumage males returning will be much less apparent than it is in the northern states. Even in the north, robins are present variably in milder winters especially when there is abundant berry production on our shurb-forum loves, the viburnums (along with lots of others).

But it is in the north in particular where the bright males will be apparent, usually right about now or within a week or so (if this GD^#%#^$&^ winter weather will finally go away.....)

Awwwwwww darn! david5311 I was truly hoping that you had found an anonmyly in the Cedrus. Also, I clearly needed to do more homework on the height and spread requirements. Well, I will keep looking for the right conifer to fill the spot. I need height in the spot I have open but not great width. Story of my gardening life. What's a robin? Its been so long I am not sure I remember. The winter hardy ones who do stay in this area avoid my place all together.

Snapple,

I'd not be suprised if you could sneak in a Cedar like ''Karl Fuchs' or 'Eisregen' being as close to the lake as you are. With good siting of course. Gee Farms in the center of the state, north of Jackson, has several growing in his arboretum. http://www.geefarms.com/ A great place for conifer junkies. He has lots of other strange plants, too. 'Eisregen' has nice blue foliage and at least while somewhat young, is narrow in habit. If you haven't been there and are really into different plants, it's worth the drive.

Regards,
Ernie

Yes, I got mine from Gee Farms as Ernie suggests. They had quite a few selections of C. deodora the year I bought this one, 'Karl Fuchs and 'Polar...??' (can't recall). Great place for anyone interested in woody plants, period. They get in some amazing stuff every year. Have maybe 20 or more cultivars of Cornus kousa alone.

Yep, anyone in OH who is close to Lake Erie certainly isn't in zone 5a -- I am not sure where Holland is, but the area close to the lake is definitely 6a, with pockets very close to the lake even 6b. Here is Karl Fuchs growing in my garden, from the same source as the one Ernie shows above. If I can grow a Cedrus (and I ain't sure I can, at least not deodora), then someone close to Lake Erie should have an even better chance as long as the plant is sited out of the wind.

LOL, details and I don't get along! I read Snapple's Holland as Holland, MI. I was thinking of going up over last weekend to take pictures of the lighthouses along Lake Michigan, up to and near Holland, MI and got confused I guess. Holland, OH appears to be Zone 5 but so does the area where Gee Farms is located. Worth a shot for a dedicated gardener, I say. The 'Polar??' is probably 'Polar Winter'?

Regards,
Ernie

Gee Farms is definitely z5, probably z5b, but it is definitely colder there than in Ann Arbor, often as much as 10 degrees colder on the coldest days of the winter. And the property I have is very wind protected on the south side and east. Here's 3 winters down and counting -- so far the plant looks great.

So where IS Holland OH? Holland MI is lucky enough to be zone 6b -- that's the 'banana belt' of Michigan -- they can grow all kinds of more tender plants right along the lake over there......

Funny you should ask about zones. Holland, Ohio is a suburb of Toledo, about 5 miles west
of the city and 15 miles or so from the Lake Erie shore. The USDA, National Gardening Organization and the National Arboretum all put it squarely in Zone 5b. The National Arbor Day Foundation, in its first update since 1990 moved my zip code 1 zone warmer to zone 6! So there you have it. Plant a Cedrus and take a chance? The site I want to fill is not as windy as the middle of a cornfield. It is an open suburban front yard with three mature fraser firs (neighbors) about 80 feet west . But it does get some wind nontheless. I can't get used to the idea of being in zone 6. I like it but it seems risky to rely on. I always believed we were zone 5a. I have experienced -15 here.

This message was edited Feb 28, 2007 10:19 AM

Snapple, you could definitely try Cedrus libanii stenocoma. That's not taking much of a chance. The ones I have have all been planted in some wind, and it sounds like you are similar. We have had temps here at an all time low of -27. But that doesn't mean we are zone 4. The zone maps deal with average winter lows, not extreme. I don't know for sure how wide the "zone 6 band" is next to lake Erie. But most of the Detroit area south to Toledo is all in zone 6a according to the USDA map, extending west as far as Ypsilanti and Ann Arbor.. So if you aren't in 6a, you are pretty close to it. And those kind of details are really irrelevant anyway. Plants don't read the maps....

Gee Farms will be about an hour and 15 minutes drive for you if you are that close to Toledo. It would be the best source anywhere around here for a Cedrus. They had some stenocomas last fall so I am pretty sure they have them. I think they actually winter them outside in pots, though they squish the pots all together and wind protect them.

You are certainly right about plants not reading the maps. I just looked at the online catalogue for Gee Farms. Wow! That is the most extensive list of conifers I have ever seen. Where ever this place is I absolutely have to go there. The Cedrus libanii stencoma would look just spetacular in the place I have open. Looks like you have given me two gems today - a good plant choice and a marvelous source. Thanks!

Mary

Hey, this thing has legs. Thanks to all of you wonderful gardeners who make lemonade out of lemons! With 80 degree temps here in central Alabama, our various Magnolia shrubs are in full bloom, and the leaf buds are precariously close. Yep, they will get zapped, but enough will survive to give us the beauty that we expect. Just another comment about the birds that I love to watch migrate northward. We will have two more mass migrations: The next should be the black birds/ravens. They are so large, and they are so smart! I guess the size of the brain does matter.:)) The next migration is what we describe as rice birds. They are beautiful black birds with brilliant red coloring that highlights the last quarter of their wings. They are impressive. Finally, my last comment about bird migrations - the hummers arrive, and people like me serve them. I'm fortunate to have a backyard that allows me to have hummer bird feeders that are separated enough to attract several. BTW, in my opinion, pound for pound, the hummer is the greatest combatant there is. I've seen them run off mockingbirds, the real bully in my garden. Thanks for talking about woody plants, and seeing the relationship between birds and the woody plants you love. Peace.

I have never understood why hummers take the trouble to fly all the way to Mexico and then all the way back...why not just stay in Mexico? Dumb question because I don't really understand migration.

To all of my fellow DGer's in Alabama, I hope you're hunkered down and keeping safe today. The weather here has been really bad all day. We are still getting gust with tropical storm force as well as reported tornadoes. I hope this isn't a sample of the rest of the season.

Escambiaguy,
Thanks, I hope you're hunkered down, too. I just got finished shoveling approx. 8" of snow from my driveway and sidewalks. Another 2" to 4" is due tonight and more tomorrow. Up to 20" total from this storm. I am so ready to get my hands in the dirt. Unfortunately, it will be at least another month and a half before that will be possible. Bummer.
Take care and stay safe.
Mike

hey escambiaguy - Thunder & lightening here and snow! You keep an eye out, ya hear.

This message was edited Mar 1, 2007 7:03 PM

E-guy, You are probably aware of what's happened in Enterprise. Let's keep them in our thoughts. WSFA has just reported that perhaps 19 people have lost their lives our in state today. It's a dynamic situation, so perhaps the stats are not correct. I hope things are better.

It certainly does look pretty bad over in Enterprise. It has finally calmed down here, but I must admit I was a little anxious earlier today. I lost the top out of one of my old oak trees, but it's towards the back so it's no big deal.

I apologize to the great professionals at WSFA. They didn't report 19 deaths. They reported 9. They now are reporting 13 people who have lost their lives. Some of those are children in Enterprise. We are still looking at storms working their way towards our area. There are benefits in living here, there are liabilities. I still wouldn't live any other place in the world, and I live here by choice. Please think good thoughts about the families who will be dealing with pain.

Thinking of all of you down there...

Ditto.

Thanks for the encouragement kman, I sure hope those marginals pulled thru okay.
That landscaping bed they are in is going to be like a main attraction as a centerpiece in the yard!
Will

70 degrees today and weather for jumping up and clicking one's heels. A new phase of spring started today. Last week the Asian Magnolias, to day the Bradford Pears, and Redbuds. Of course there have been daffodils since February. Waiting for Azaelas & Dogwoods and Spireas.

I can see some patches of grass! Yipeee!