Failure in Starting Seedlings

This is the second year I've tried starting my own tomato and pepper seedlings.
I can get them to sprout - no problem. It's after that where I'm failing.
My seedlings don't look robust. They are not deep green and leaves of tomatoes are papery thin not "plump" like the one's I buy.
I use a 3 foot shop light with two flourescent tubes made for plants (can't remember the brand name)
I'm keeping the light close to the plants (just under touching)
I keep the light on about 14 hours a day.
This light is pretty much the only light they get as my room is dim.
If I'm home during the day, and it's not too cold out I'll put them outside to get some natural sun, but this doesn't happen a lot.
I've watered them twice with a Miracle Grow solution to help them - but there doesn't seem to be too much difference.

That's all I can think of.
If anyone has any advice - I'd be grateful. I have so many varieties of peppers/tomatoes I want to grow that aren't offered for sale by the plant - so I'd like to master this skill.
Thanks!! Dorie in New Braunfels

I have read that fertilizing them while they are small is not a good idea. And if you do decide to, do so only with a very dilute form once in a while. Mine have their second set of leaves now and no fertilizer yet. They are a nice deep green.

Kim

I waited to do anything until it was obvious something was wrong. I used very diluted Miracle Grow (the dilution recommended for daily watering of plants). I did see minor perk up after a while - but not really. They are just anemic looking..... so sad.

Move your post to the tomato forum. You will get the answer and FAST!

What kind of seed starting mix did you plant the seeds in?

Veggie,
You have a d-mail.

Here's the link to Seedling Starter instructions by Dr. Carolyn Male.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/490323/

dmagaro - I used a packaged starter mix (looked like a mixture of peat moss and perlite)

Gymgirl: Thanks for the links - I'll Dmail you with specifics except I don't have a digital camera, so I can't take pictures (my daughter considered the digital camera "community property" when she left the nest this year....haha)

You know - it seems like just these two types do very poorly. I started some kale under lights, and they seemed much healthier - weird. Maybe my house is too cold (I keep the temp inside at about 68 evenings and it probably gets to about 60-65 during the day when I'm not home (I turn off the heat while I'm gone).

I got pretty nice tomato seedlings this year and the only thing I can see that I did differently was to use more light. Mine were under 3 2-bulb 4' shoplights. I tried a few on a heat mat and they hated it. Our house is similar in temperature. Maybe try another light and/or some reflective foil?

Could you be watering them too much or too little? I am not very successful myself as I have a habbit of drowning plants.

Veggie,

"I used a packaged starter mix (looked like a mixture of peat moss and perlite)". There is a big difference in those mixtures, some hold too much water, some not enough. Do you have a name for the one you chose? That would help us figure this out.

Also, once tomatoes and peppers have germed, tomatoes grow on easily at around 60º temp but peppers prefer a bit higher temperatures for faster growth.

As for feeding them, I wouldn't feed them anything until you pot them up to a bigger pot. And that reminds me, what size cell-packs/containers are you starting them in and what size are you moving them up to?

We'll get to the bottom of this! You'll see! :>)

Shoe

I started them in empty tofu and strawberry containers (about 6 per container), and I moved them into cut down crystal light containers and yogurt containers :-)

I think the potting mix is okay because they don't dry out too often. I water about once a week - and they drain really good. I think the potting mix is called pro something (I emptied it into a 30 gallon trash can and threw the bag away).

No putting anything outside today - 25 degrees this morning!!! (I had to push my big black lab out the door by his butt and carry the terrier outside as I was leaving for work - as I was closing the door I said "don't worry - the high will be 58 today").

From last night.

More from last night.

My camelia is FINALLY blooming for the first time!. And the rabbit's foot fern doesn't seem to mind the cold!

Final pic. I finished uppotting at 2:00 this morning. I'm tired.....

Yay - Gymgirl you'll be set for tomatoes - that's for sure!!

I am sure Gymgirl would be happy to share her bounty of seedlings......

Veggie - Double check the color temp output of your lights. To cover all the wavelengths one should be cool and one warm ends of the spectrum. I know you said you had lights for plants but I would double check all the same. Look for the K (Kelvin) number on the end of your bulbs. Did you make drain holes in the bottoms of your containers? How old are they now?

Hang in there!
-Kim

The tomatoes all but died - I think it was because I put them outside to get some sun. It's wasn't cold, but they were already weak. The peppers are still going though, and I have Okra just now starting. Too late to start more Tomatoes, so I'll just buy them, and I'll try again for the fall planting (that way I can keep them outside with real sunshine). When I get home I'll check the light numbers, and the containers have holes - they drain really good.

Veggie Happy, It sounds like to me that you have been treating your little seedlings pretty well, so I don't know what the problem is. Mine are out in my little gh, where the temp. stays at about 50 to 55 degrees, when the sun isn't shining, Yesterday got up to 80 degrees because I still haven't turned my exhaust fan on, it is still covered with plastic, but i did open the door. I do have a couple of heat mats but the tomatoes were taken off as soon as sprouted. I planted only four seeds of Parks Sweet Baby Girl, cherry tom, that my son gave me to try for extra early ripe tom.That was about 3 weeks ago. Last week I planted the rest of my tom. seeds. they are germinating quite well not.

Here is a picture of the Sweet Baby Girls, they are quite sturdy, have been planted in3 1/2 pots, no fertilizer. with lights almost touching. But today I moved them to a different location, in the gh, but under the 450 watt HID light. Every time I go by them I give the plants a couple of swipes with my hand. I really believe that causes sturdier growth. Here is a post, the tom. are between 5 & 6 inches tall now.

You might be right about putting them outside being the problem. Sun and wind can be too strong for such littles guys. Happy to hear you are willing to try again!

Nice babies Ruth! Thanks to that gh you are quite far along for zone 5a!!

They look really healthy rutholive. I thought about buying a more powerful light, but I can't justify the expense. Maybe someday. I'm going to repot my peppers this weekend. Pretty soon I'll be able to leave them outside during the day all the time - hopefully they will survive and give me some peppers. If not, I live in Texas - no shortage of pepper plants in the nurseries here :-)

I agree that putting them in & out isn't a good idea.... grow them on inside, and don't put them out until you're ready to harden them off before planting out.

I don't think you need a more powerful light. Florescent bulbs are generally good for a year of half-day use, so yours should still be fine. I grow my seedlings under cool florescents, with two double fixtures (four 40 watt 48" tubes) over four 1020 flats. That's not fancy lighting.

Here's what some of my pepper seedlings looked like after 8 weeks under the lights ('Red Savina' habanero, the sharpie is to show scale).

Is it too late for me to germinate any other seedlings besides my tomatoes? I still have the lettuce, spinach, butternut squash, Kentucky Wonder green beans, the Bell Pepper and the Okra seeds sitting in the packets....

Michelle,
If I'm too late now, when should I plant the above-mentioned seeds for a fall crop?

I would guess that the squash, peppers, and okra could still be planted, but I am no expert so if someone else says different, take their advice. Take care, Mike

This message was edited Feb 21, 2007 9:58 PM

Squash, peppers and okra are hot weather veggies. They do better when it starts to get up around
anywhere from 75 to 95 degrees during the daytimes. In this part of Okla. I can wait as long as the middle or end of May to plant okra directly in the ground. It grows fast and loves it hot. Squash grows fast and likes it hot too. I'm no expert either, but this seems to work in these parts.

Thanks, you guys!

I'll put some seeds out on the weekend. Give or take 9 weeks for germination and seedling set, that would hve me planting out on the last weekend of April. That should be do-able. Any tips on germinating these seeds would be helpful. I'm only now getting experience with the tomato seedlings and have never tried any of these others. I remember reading something about these needing more heat for germination than the tomatoe seeds, is this correct?

Last year was my first time to do a garden on my own. I planted everything directly into the garden in one day in March and about an inch deep with no regard as to planting depth or timing. I planted two gardens with a total of a little more than a quarter acre. Needless to say, most of it never came up. The okra came up like gang busters well over a month later, maybe two months. With all those 100 degree days and little water, if I missed two days of picking, by the third day most would have gone to seed. I believe okra likes a little more alkaline soil than the squash and peppers. I have not tried squash yet, but I am going to try some as a trap crop for cucumber beetles which were here in abundance last year. I remember my stepdads gardens as a kid and his squash always did well in Irving Texas zone 7a?? even though we always seemed to have an army of squash bugs. Actually everything he grew did well. I guess that I just never paid attention as to when and how deep he planted his garden and how much work he put into it or else maybe I would have staggered my planting times and depths a little more closer to the book.

Oh yeh, for a non-experienced answer, I would suggest starting the peppers inside now just like the tomatoes or maybe a little warmer. Start the squash either inside a week before your zones expected last frost date and transplant a week or two after your last frost date or outside directly in the garden. Plant the okra directly into the garden. Someone posted a link on when to plant certain veggies by zone. I will see if I can find it and post it here, might have been this forum. Talk to you later, Mike

Found it. http://plantanswers.tamu.edu/earthkind/ekgarden14.html