Crossing Iris ,s

Can i cross a arilbred iris with a Water Iris and will the cross Pollanateing Take?

I do not believe such a cross would be possible.

Why Not? they are closely Related Right?

No, they're really not. They are in completely different sections of the Genus Iris. They are not genetically close enough to interbreed.

Thanks Paul

Phicks, generally speaking, intergeneric hybrids don't take, because the chromosome counts to not match, so they won't pair up for fertilization to take place and start the developement of the embryo. Some hybridizers use less orthodox methods such as plant growth regulators. Find the plant propagation forum that includes the link to a catalogue page of plant growth regulators, and you will find it very informative. These chemicals are quite expensive, but very effective in low concentrations. Be a Columbus. At least with irises you won't need Beth's dog to bite a hole in the seed. lol Frank

Dr. Jenkins, a now retired Spuria iris hybridizer in Phoenix, Az., crossed many a spuria iris with lactea iris (if I remember the short species correctly) and one such cross "took". He showed us photos at one of our hybridizing meetings (we hold here semi-annual meetings in AZ.) and some of the plants were growing tall like regular spurias, others were short, litlte guys - like the Lactea iris, all growing together where the seeds were planted. And a couple of the seeds sprouted 2 plants (out of one seed) - unidentical twins if you will. One plant tall, the other one short - (growing side by side).

Dr. Jenkins did genetic research all his life before he took on irises. He won several awards for his spurias. One of his goals - - was a shorter spuria iris. He has seen many of his other goals come to pass, and this was the one that made him feel he could finally retire from his work.

Since then, he has retired and he gave much of his Spuria/Lactea upcoming seedlings away. One person - who recieved many of his plants said the plants had died in the move. So now, the final results may never be known.............but I sure some of them survived to someday surface. I wish I had taken him up on those seedlings............................I just didn't have the space.

There is also another gentleman in Japan (I believe), who crossed a Japanese Iris w/ another species. And though this one I don't know the details of this one specifically - I understand that no one believes him. But he stands by it!

I totally believe what fchilders had to say, and maybe, (unbeknown to me,) Dr. jenkins may have used some of this stuff and maybe not. I don't know. Meeting with him, at our hybridizer groups for years, he never mentioned that he used any plant growth regulators, so I would suspect not.

When it comes to chromozomes counts - how many chromozones may not matter; (to a degree that is, and certainly not within the same species). Many a person has crosed the 24 chromozone historic iris with todays modern 48 chromozone iris and has successfully produced iris with 24 chomozones, and with 48 chromozones, and then there are those irises that has neither 24 or 48 chromozones - but somewhere in between. Many of these offspring from this type of cross are sterile, however, there are some that are not.....................and that is "news" to many iris hybridizers.

My point is........................ nature is for the most part is predictable - "like begets like", but even in nature the unexpected happens. So why wouldn't an unexpected "turn in nature" happen when one of us play around with these same chromosomes.

Phicks, I would suggest that if you do take on this challenge.....................document and photograph all your work. That was one of the points Dr. Jenkins stressed "when pioneering into unknown territory". And if you are successfull......PLEASE keep us informed. :-) I am pulling for you.

~Margie

As above, however Iris Paltec is a cross between Iris tectorum (not a water iris though), and the bearded iris Edina. I think the new crosses between iris pseudacorus, and iris ensata would be really fun to try.

Thanks Margie

Ah, but in both the cases of spuria X lactea and pseudacorus X ensata, the irises crossed were in the same subsection of the same section. The OP's original query about AB X water iris would be two irises in entirely different sections.

On the other hand, Paltec (tectorum X bearded) is the result of breeding between two different sections, so at least that specific combination of genes is possible.

If you're up for a wild and almost certainly unsuccessful experiment, then by all means give it a try. If you'd rather not waste your time, don't bother.

Laurie

ive seen a lot of things done that was not supose to be able to be done i was a big Reptile breeder for a lot of years ive seen many crosses between snakes that should not have been posible and many of the off spring was fertile king snakes x corn snakes

True Laurie, but at one point in time - - Hybridizers were told that even those type of crosses would never take. But, they did. And...........now that we've seen Paltec, and know that at least once a cross from "2 different sections" took, therefore there is always that possiblity there are other crosses that can take. All it takes is ONE! :-)

Not too long people were told that graphing unlike plants together wouldn't take either. And now it's common practice with such plants as tomato plants graphed and growing onto a potato plant. 2 entirely different species/graph -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato

Or different species of trees graphed. Once thought couldn't happen. but - - it now exists too. (Note: A graft-chimaera is not a true hybrid but a mixture of cells). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/+Laburnocytisus_'Adamii'

A commonly known 2 animal species cross (not a graph of course) is the Horse & Donkey - where we get our mules from. And now - - we find out - - even that these so called sterile mules can occasionally "reproduce". We were aways taught in school just the opposite.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2290491.stm

I've learned that what may be considered a waste of time for some, is an exciting adventure for someone else......and that the adventure and challenge CAN prove to be productive. It did for those above hybridizers who were told - "it could never happen."

Grafting is not cross-pollinating, and animals are not plants, but possibility is possibility. The scientifically-based iris community will be very excited if such a wild and unlikely cross should work, but they will not accept such a cross without indisputable scientific proof of its validity. Someone making crosses in their backyard and claiming unprecedented success won't cut it. As Margie noted, the products of such crosses (if, in fact, anything is produced) have been and will be critically rejected by the iris community at large in almost all cases.

If phicks is up for the inevitable skepticism and scientific battle to validate his work, assuming his work produces anything to validate, or if he just doesn't care whether or not anyone believes him, then there's nothing standing in his way.

Laurie

I've always said: the only steadfast rule in nature is that there are no steadfast rules, only probabilities.

Hey, when you all make your millions doing this, let me know, in the meantime...enjoy all the beauty this spring! I can't wait. It's like 5 degrees here this morning. I'm ready for some sunshine. One of my docs in the ed just got back from Key West with 72 degree weather. He was laughing at the locals who were "chilly" at that temp. Cute. When it hits 60 here, it's shorts weather! Have a great day...I'm going to bed.
Laura

Thanks for all the info on breeding. I thought the mule story was especially interesting. And that explains why dill and fennel don't cross -- or at least, I don't think they do. This whole subject is fascinating.