Need help with plant choices for hot shade

I've posted this question in the Design forum and hope you can spare some time to help me out.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/689745/

Thanks for looking.

I'm shady but hot!

Oh, but you mean plants...

I would say caladiums, hosta, coleus, I'm sure there is more - but I already know these guys like heat.

Now, do you mean dry hot shade because I do believe the above need fairly constant moisture, although they can handle a little bit of neglect now and then.

There are some cannas that will do well in shade but - I'm pretty sure - most will take full sun also.
And like Larissa, I had caladiums, - plus some gingers, lavender, lobelia, impatiens, iris, day lilies, and salvia this year that got hot midday sun, and early shade and seemed very happy. I also 2nd her suggestion of hostas, many of them will do fine with sun.
I'm not sure about shrubs, since I'm not familiar with what does well in CA, but my azaleas and gardenias seem happy wherever they are! Holly fern can take sun.

I'm thinking if you look for those that require "part shade" or say they'll grow in "sun to pt shade" you'd probably be lucky most of the time! Also, anything that is a full sun plant will probably be very happy with morning shade, if they get sun from mid-day onward. Normally, full sun means something like at least 6 hours of sun, but if it's very hot, then even 4 hours of good hot afternoon sun is enough - usually. ;>

I'm not any expert, but this is just my experience with a yard that has clay soil and alot of shade punctuated by mid day and afternoon "hot spots". I'm sure someone with more expertise will answer you. :)

Deb

Wait, do you live at my house? lol. Talk about a challenge of a yard, huh? I have yet to find my evergreen-deep-shade-2-3-foot-tall-can-take-clay-soil plant wonder for this certain north side of an ugly house...

LOL! Larissa, too true. There is only one place in my yard that is really full sun (and it's a pretty small spot!). I used a sun meter and checked the whole yard this past summer and every spot came up "part shade". "Oh," I thought, "that's helpful." ;>

The north wall of my house faces the main road and it's u-g-l-y. Just a big white monolith with one window. Totally shaded, rotten soil, only get late afternoon sun in summer. What have you tried on yours? I have gardenias there, which do ok. They bloom, they grow, but they are never nice and full looking. This year I put in a couple of cleyera, which supposedly grow slowly to 8 feet, but so far they are 2 ft tall (and seem happy). I'm trying a loquat - sort of as center "bones" this year.

I did find that in summer, there are some tropicals that seem to love this spot: colocasia (black magic), fatsia, philodendron selloum, and musa basjoo. Oh, and Persian shield. Unfortunately, then comes winter...and we're stuck looking for that evergreen-deep-shade-2-3-foot-tall.....etc.etc.. :)

If I ever find the answer, I'll let ya know! Please do the same for me? :)

Wgnkiwi, you are not alone!

Deb

Deb, unfortunately for me, due to tall trees about, the spot I'm talking about is almost complete shade, mid-afternoon to evening a plant would have to be 5-6 foot tall to reach to the sun, and then only the top third would accomplish it.

LOL - It's great to know I'm in good company. Next time I buy a house, the garden and it's light and soil conditions are going to be the first things I look at!

The part of the garden that butts up to the garage is dry shade and so far is resisting my attempts to make it moist shade, or at least not quite so dry shade. Digging some of the soil out may be my next line of attack. I hadn't thought of tropicals but that makes sense. I have canna's thriving in my front yard (full on scorching ALL DAY SUN but not a place I want to park my deck chair!) and they last almost all year round, so if I planted something like them then the spot wouldn't necessarily be too barren in winter.

Have either of you tried tree ferns in those north spots?

Larissa: My "north wall" is very similar. The late (and I mean very late) afternoon sun that it gets in summer is filtered through tall pines and oaks. I feel your pain! :)

Wgnkiwi: I have - so far - tried a few ferns: Christmas fern, holly fern, eco maiden lace fern(thelypteris torresiana), and chain ferns. All have done well but none gets very large except the lace fern. Of those, Christmas and holly have taken some sun pretty well. I water pretty often tho.
:)

Deb

This message was edited Feb 8, 2007 1:21 PM

DebinSC: Do you find the sun meter helpful at all? I didn't know such a product existed until I saw your post. Do you have the Rapitest
Sun Analyzer (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0002KPKYE/ref=dp_bb_a/104-1795951-6892704?ie=UTF8&tag2=dealtime-kitchen-mp-20&redirect=true&condition=new%2F). Does it give many gradations between full sun and deep shade?

Happy: The one I got was the SunCalc. http://www.thesuncalc.com/

This is as detailed as it gets:
FULL SUN: 6+ hours of full intensity solar energy
Partial Sun: Less than 6 and more than 4 hours
Partial Shade: Less than 4 and more than 1.5 hours
Full Shade: Less than 1.5 hours

But it was helpful to me because there were areas that I thought got more than 4 hrs sun when in fact they didn't.
Turns out almost my entire yard is "partial shade" or "full shade" except for two places. :( We had to have two trees removed over the winter so I'm hopeful to have a little more sunny space this season.

Deb