Help Me Make A Tropical Zone 5

Inspired by Walt Disney's Polynesian Resort, I want to recreate their entryway in a Zone 5 fashion. That means tropical-looking, but hardy. I may not tackle the build for awhile, but I can start accumulating plants now! The first things that come to mind are Pawpaw, the whole bigleaf Magnolia bunch, Rodgersias, Astilboides, perhaps a weeping Katsura and/or Beech, oakleaf hydrangeas(?), seasonal Castor plants, Bananas, etc(though I would rather not do too much of anything that I have to dig up and bring in the garage).........what else?

...and another view......

Not hardy but all variations of elephant ears, as well as caladium always look great near my pond. I would use a number of ferns also.

Kevin,
What a beautiful garden setting, not many New Englanders including myself are as brave as you are to step out of the box and attempt tropical zone 5 gardens so my suggestions maybe pretty conservative but here goes.
1. Ferns, Ferns, Ferns
2. plants with big green leaves such as bananas, palms and bamboos
3. Moss, Moss, Moss
4. For color hardy hibiscus and you might consider investing in tropical bulbs and tubers but consider them as annual accents.
5. leonotis leonurus – lions ear
6. rhubarb, colored kale series, perhaps even some of the more aggressive squashes.
7. sweet potato vine – some good color variations

I think in a recent issue of Fine Gardening or Horticulture magazine there was an article on tropical gardens in cold regions. kt

You'd have to bring this one in as well but Philodendron look great in that setting. There are lots of varieties now.

I forgot the ferns---good idea. They had 20 foot tall tree ferns around that Disney pond--amazing plants. I can do elephant ears as well. Rhubarb is good, and I don't have to bring it in the garage! I have a banana here right next to my desk. I can see that being a problem soon as it is touching the ceiling already. Wonder if it could live in the 37 degree garage?? Moss? Plenty of that here. Bamboo is another great idea. There are cold hardy clumpers that get about 12-15'. Keep 'em coming......

Kevin,
You question moss!!!! Here are a few photos from NZ that should help change your mind. This first photo in a dense rain-forest not far from the glaciers reminded me of the garden you want to design.

Mickey topiary.

This message was edited Jan 30, 2007 1:51 PM

More amazing moss

I would also check into hardy aroids - there are a number of them that are hardy and very interesting.

Now if I haven't won you over to the wonders of Moss....if for no other reason than it adds age to your vista. kt

Albizia julibrissin - on everyone's top ten list
Sorbaria arborea - kinda a tropical effect from the couple images I saw
Populus lasiocarpa - big leaves apparently
Acer pensylvanicum - ditto
even Redbuds have decent sized leaves, and if you can contain a Catalpa then they are no slouch for leaf size

I think you would want vines on most of the trees in that area to add to the foliage mass also.

Willis

Is my complete lack of knowledge about tropical looking plants apparent now?

Petasites japonicus
Rheum palmatum 'Atrosanguim'

Willis

I have no personal experience but I have read that gunnera tinctoria will over winter with some protection. Even if it doesn't it might be treated as an annual.

RUNK!!! No no--you misunderstood. I am pro-moss! I was just saying it was a good idea--I have plenty here I could mix up and spread around. Now, with your pictures for further inspiration, I best start accumulating buttermilk as well(isn't that what you use to mix up and spread it???)

The huge bi-pinnate leaves of Aralia elata have a tropical look about them--at least to this poor soul living on the frozen tundra.

•Cunninghamia lanceolata
•Paulownia tomentosa, especially if headed back hard annually once well-rooted
•Aralia spinosa
•Firmiana simplex
•Ricinus (oops, you said that already)
•Thuja plicata and other spray foliaged conifers, especially the droopy ones
•Rhododendron (refer to Beaver Creek Nursery field grown types)
•Campsis radicans would run right up any trunks, as would
•Vitis spp.

If you could keep that jet of water and deep wide pond ice-free, you have a heck of heat sink and may even be able to pull off a non-deciduous Magnolia grandiflora.

Be careful with Petasites - can be quite invasive, especially when given good moisture.

Petasites japonica must be totally contained or it will spread faster than happy Goose Neck Loose strife. I made the mistake of planting it in my shade garden one year and it jumped three feet in every direction the following Spring. I dug it out for three years. The roots, being as thick as fingers and white, go deep into the ground making it impossible to get all of it. Thought I had killed it after the third year. Two years later, it comes up in my lawn! That remaining piece is now living in a halved wine barrel. It has survived the last 7 winters up here in zone 5. It has filled the barrel. Interesting plant but very aggressive...

What wonderful ideas! Living on a shallow, warm-water river, I've been toying with the same thing. A gal down the road has a very elaborate installation in the summers with overhead irrigation but I haven't gotten a good look at it.

Viburnum, is that Paulownia hardy to Z5?

Down here in Kankakee, we're dangerously close to Z6 these days ... but Elburn is still the frozen north, eh?

If you can grow kudzu (Pueraria) along the embankments of the L, you can probably coax Paulownia into prospering. Seems like dybbuk or someone showed a picture of a perfectly happy Empress Tree in Chicagoland.

I'd vote for the cutting back so that huge foliage is regenerated (which also prohibits flowering).

Ok--nix that petasites--I have a large pond a stone's throw away--no need to be chasing any more invasives there.

Summerkid--Paulownia might just be root hardy. Cutting it to the ground every year would give me the largest leaves. Worth a try! I am a bit more doubtful on the Cunninghamia lanceolata--doesn't look like it would make it here. Tropical looking conifers....hmmmmm....are there any? I know Firminia is questionable, but it might be another root hardy type--excellent large leaves!

I think that Ilex purpurea looks tropical. Evergreen too. I got mine from Oikos, and they say it's hardy for them.

Scott

I also think that Sinocalycanthus looks/act tropical. I like the Aroid idea. Contained bamboos might be a thought. Some of the large lilies would probably fit right in.

Scott

I've killed Ilex purpurea sometime in my past--it didn't overwinter here.

You have some of these already but...
Hardy banana Musa Basjoo. There's a guy in the snowbelt 10-15 miles north of me who is growing them in his yard - total zone 5. He mounds mulch over the roots and they've lived for I think 4 years
http://www.bambooworld.com/hardy%20banana%20plant.htm

There are also some hardy bamboo's that are not invasive http://www.jmbamboo.com/coldhardy.htm

Here's a link for hardy ferns http://hardyfernlibrary.com/ferns/listSpecies.cfm?Auto=36

Canna's, Giant white Calla lily

Amaranthus sp. as annuals

Big Hosta's like Big Daddy, uprights like Krossa Regal, and the dwarfs and miniatures for filling in.

Chinese Ginger - a variegated 6" ginger - arrow shaped.

Saxifrages

Heptacodium miconoides

the big daylilies, some of the big Asiatic lilies do fine in less sun

crinum's, caladiums

All kinds of goodies from Telos rare bulbs http://www.telosrarebulbs.com/index.html

Japanese Shiso Perilla - dark dark purple foliage - a reseeding annual

Hakonechloa macra Aurea

the big leaf variegated pulmonarias like Reginald Kaye

Sounds like a fun project - good luck

Hosta and Arisaema. You could do Amorphophallus and dig and store the tubers overwinter.

The cool thing about planting Paulownia is you could order from one of those companies with the cheesy ads- all illustrated. The ones that dupe southerners into actually paying for one of the worst weeds ever (at least here).

OK, now what we'll need is pix from the Elburn Tropical Conservancy!

Kevin,

Many of the best ideas are on the table already. Magnolia macrophylla is a must! Perhaps a Decaisnea fargesii is in order to try here. Or even an Acer macrophyllum. For some variation in color, you could do like the Europeans and grow the colored Acer negundo's, chopping them back hard every year. And I thought I'd never recommend the plant. Ok, maybe you shouldn't then. One last maple, 'White Tigress' especially so if it's going to be shady. I'm running out of time, perhaps you can try Carex muskingumensis and cvs. for foliage near the ground. 'Oehme' is a cute looking thing. Orixa japonica has a shiny, not-hardy/tropical look to the foliage and handles shade well.

Regards,
Ernie

Following the Decaisnea train...

Any of the big Rhus add to the ambience, as would the false and true Solomon's seals.

VV--This is a Rhus-free zone! The soil around the proposed water feature will be excellent, and I have no need of chasing Rhus 'round. Solomon's Seals are a definite addition.

Ernie--A couple 'White Tigress' are already in place at what would be the fringes of the "Tropics".

A couple pics of the proposed site(ironic 'eh?)

Those are 'White Tigress' in that gap between the yews, in front of the little hemlocks. In between the 'WT' is a bottlebrush buckeye. This would be the far left of the water feature.

This message was edited Jan 31, 2007 9:26 AM

This would be the far right, with a stream running over there to the big pond for overflow--the bank of the pond is the slope you see to the right. Note the "semi-evergreen" 'Dart's Duke' Viburnum. Semi-evergreen is a crock in my neck of the woods. It means "retains brown ugly leaves long enough for owner to notice and hate them during a bleak winter."

Now, Kevin, if you look it up...that's termed "provides winter interest."

In my recollection of the color wheel, you also have a fine auburn or russet tone going there.

If you just can't stand the long term value that 'Dart's Duke' brings to your site as a windbreak, then by all means plant a proper evergreen there. I continually offer you Ilex opaca.

Perhaps a very weepy form of Juniperus rigida.

Spanish moss. You could grow the bromeliad (or rather, tillandsia I think) inside over the winter. I had a friend who did it up here for many years. Although, gray as a color isn't very tropical.

Pawlonia is usually root hardy in Minnesota.

Large leaf vines, like Aristolochia durior(and the very apropos flowers).

http://www.garden.org/regional/report/national/2345

The NGA just reported on some new cold hardy, non-invasive clumping bamboos - link above

where's Hikaro_Takayama? He's been experimenting with tropicals in z6 for several years. I d-mailed him to stop by if he can. I have exactly the same thought and I've been picking Hikaro's brain. I'd like to do my front yard in tropicals as much as possible. sick of looking at the same old..same old and would like to keep the neighbor's guessing how I do it LOL. where tropicals aren't possible, my thought is anything with big leaves and neon colors, fuschia, bright orange, hot pink!

Here's a few Tropical-esque plants that should do good in your zone:

Sabal minor 'Mc Curtain"... But make sure to mulch it good during the winter. This variety of the dwarf palmetto could very well be the world's hardiest palm tree and is know to survive in zone 5b (Colorado Springs) with minimal or no winter protection.... It has even survived a record-breaking low of -25 in wichita, KS. I have two small 1-gallon specimens that have taken lows down to about 9 degrees thus far and no sign of damage (and nothing looks more tropical than a palm tree)

Rhodea Japonica... Usually rated as only hardy to zone 6 or 7, but there is at least 1 DGer in N. Pennsylvania (around Wilkes-barre) who's had success with them as a die-back perennial

Poncirius Trifoliata.... Japanese Hardy orange, although it is marginal in your area, so be sure to protect it or plant it in a sheltered spot... It's supposed to be deciduous in my zone, but I have 1 small tree that hasn't lost its leaves yet, even with temps in the teens....

Yucca rostrata... Blue Beaked Yucca. This tree-form yucca is VERY hardy, and is supposed to be reliably hardy in zone 5. There are two caveats for that, though. 1) it must have very good drainage during the winter, since cold, wet soil will cause it to get root rot in no time, and 2) Blue Beaked yuccas grow really SLOW, and decent sized specimens are expensive (we're talking $100 or more for a 3-gallon plant).

Yucca filamentosa... Very hardy clump-forming yucca. Gives a nice, evergreen tropical look

Fargesia nitida... Blue Fountain Bamboo. One of the world's hardiest bamboos, and a real plus is that it won't spread like most other hardy bamboos. It is more or less evergreen in the winter, but the leaves tend to curl and fade in color during extended cold spells, making the plant look half-dead, but as soon as warm weather returns, the leaves return to their nice, green, healthy appearance.

Musa basjoo... Japanese Hardy banana. Just put about 1 foot of mulch over the bulb after your first hard freeze kills it to the ground and call it a winter.... The banana will come back up during the spring.

Roscoea cuatyloides... Himalayan Hadry Ginger... Might be worth a try for you, but be sure to mulch it good. Survives temps to about -10 in the wild.... Also hard to come by in the US.

There are also a number of tropical-looking aroids that you could grow as well, such as:

Skunk Cabbage.... Just make sure it has wet, acid soil... Has HUGE leaves (up to 3 ft long)

Arum Itallicum... Itallian Arum... Has attactive calla-like flowers and evergreen leaves that (here's the screwy part) COME UP in the fall and die back in the spring.... Which is when it blooms.

Airasema Triphyllum.... Jack in the pulpit.... Try to get the large varieties that are available from some mail-order catalogs.

Ferns are another good one... Any of the Osmunda ferns work great for giving a tropical appearance, including the Cinnamon fern, Royal Fern and Interrupted fern... All species in this family have leaves that get about 3' or more long (I've seen Royal Ferns up on the mountains that were 6' tall). Also try Ostrich plume ferns.

One last plant for that tropical experience: Hardy Hibiscuses.... They have flowers that can put a tropical hibiscus to shame, and the leaves on some of the new varieties could put quite a few tropical foliage plants to shame as well. They die back during the winter, but will come up again in the spring.

Speaking of hibiscuses, a hardy bush hibiscus for you would be a Rose of Sharon.

Hope that helps out a bit....

If you can grow kudzu. Dude that stuff is evil. Here in the South it runs wild. Don't encourage people to sell it by not buying it.

Thanks Hikaro.