If you really loved me, you'd...

...buy and plant me a few of these.

Amazing what they can do with silk now-a-days. It almost looks real.

...let's put it this way, John, we're just friends.

Scott

Ken:

Out from under the glacial till! This is as real as the winters are long up around Lake Superior.

Scott:

You wound me so. Or you could wound it -- needs limbing up.

Which Clematis ought be draped over this baby?

Let me at it with my lopper and chain saw, I'll make room for those vines and flowers.

By the time I was twenty one I knew how to draw the boundary as to who I would agree to help move from apartment to apartment(only nearest and dearest)....but this is something entirely different. How do you look some one in the face without cringing and ask them to help? kt

Goodness!!!!!! What show was this? I hoping to try and make a couple of the nursery shows this year. Will be my first time. : )

I look at that and all my mucles are going owwwwwww.

You say: "Got a backhoe?"

This specimen graced the Mid States Horticultural Expo at the fairgrounds in Louisville KY. I'm pretty sure there is a crane truck involved.

Vainglorious Valentine:They usually use forklifts at these occasions, at least indoors. Would they suspend a tree with a crane? Maybe on pallettes?

This message was edited Jan 6, 2007 10:02 AM

This is a large exposition center, with solid concrete floors. It could support any kind of wheeled vehicle.

Take a close look at the subject plant. Would you let a forklift operator get equipment near the canopy of this one-of-a-kind item?

This may be sitting on a pallet. I didn't look that close. Even so, a loader like a backhoe with forks would be needed to get up under the branches to keep from breaking them. I saw a crane truck in the parking lot from one of the other vendors (that had 18' conifers in their booth, with 50-60" root balls) which led to the supposition.

I have planted trees with up to 90" root balls using cranes and chain baskets (ball chains). Imagine a really big set of tire chains, but wrapping them around the great big root ball of a tree. Same principle, just not for traction but for ball support while being lifted by the crane. When lifted, the canopy/trunk are tipped to the side so not to rub the crane's cable.

Edited to add ball chains terminology.

This message was edited Jan 6, 2007 3:03 PM

Okay I'll bite. What is it?

Ericaceae is not my first language, but I think it's a big old variegated Pieris japonica.

Vainglorious Valentine - snort - that's funny. What a Pieris - I agree.
I didn't know they came in variegated, oh Variegated Vesuvius

Available from a wholesale vendor in Nashville, this guy or it's non-variegated partner tip the scales at a mere $3,500.00 (£1810.13 or €2689.25) as is, where is.

Makes you wish you could have two.

That is gorgeous

Well, too bad I don't have $3500, not including another $1000 to ship it to Michigan, but it sure is pretty gorgeous.

And of course, VV, NOBODY would be so UNCOUTH as to drape a clematis over such a beautiful plant with that kind of form. A forsythia, an elder, and yes even most viburnums, fair game. But some things MUST be left alone (at least, I wouldn't be so uncouth as to grow a clematis on that baby.......)

Since I can't grow a Pieris worth beans around here, I was looking for some acidic commentary.

I always observed these as big green blobs when not in flower (like boxwood), so why not a Clematis for the off-season? Might be a pain to remove the Clematis stems/foliage when rejuvenating, but that's the fun of gardening. Break those boundaries!

I bet you could name six or eight white to pink Clematis that would just be gangbusters with the reddish emergent new growth...

I should send you the list of other specimen plants (and associated pricing) from this outfit.

If it were not for the dastardly lacebug I would consider Pieris my number one shrub of distinction. Formal evergreen leaf, will grow in deep shade, winter color on following years blossoms, plentiful and prominent flowering, new growth provides additional color....what is not to love. kt

Why can't you grow Pieris? Too alkaline?
They take shaping really well also so you can end up with some interesting trunk and branch shapes.

I finally found P. Valley Valentine ( there you go VV ) and it blooms with the polyanthus primroses and the very earliest daffs - love that pink so early in our year. This was April 18th last yr.

That is beautiful...and no lacebugs..which is what I always get (even in the shade).

That is gorgeous, alyrics. Where did you get it - local nursery or online? Where do you have it sited - part sun? Thanks.

Victor

That is one fabulous picture. If that belonged to me I would have it surrounded by a fence.

Very hard to grow Clematis (lime-loving) over Pieris (lime-hating) . . .

Resin

I was mostly just "funnin'", but to me there is just something 'wrong' about growing clematis on a shrub like this. First, it would be a disaster to have an extra vigorous clematis damage your multithousand dollar pieris, whereas if it damaged one of those 'ya-seen-one-ya-seen-em-all' viburnums, well it wouldn't be much of a loss (how am I doing on the acid commentary?).

Only slightly more seriously, most spring blooming clems which would bloom at the time of the new growth appearing are going to be group 1 or 2, which means you basically have to leave the vines up and in place all winter. And I personally would far prefer to look at my broadleaf evergreen shrubs with out a lot of viney clutter on them in the winter.

I think some of the larger clematis look great hiking themselves up into conifers, sure. But for me, they just aren't a good match with broadleaf evergreens in general. Maybe I just need to expand my horizons. But heck, there are plenty of those da** viburnums that need covering up in the summer anyway, and they might as well serve as clematis scaffolding. Besides, it is much better getting serious again to pair a late summer or fall flowering clematis with a viburnum that is flowering or fruiting at that time, so I would save my clems for those anyway.

The books all say what Resin describes, but here in the land of fairly neutral soils, ranging from mildly acid to mildly alkaline, I find that most clematis are really not all that fussy about pH. And I have had them growing right NEXT TO broadleaf evergreens that I treat with agricultural sulfur, and both plants seem to do fine.

And, alyric, THANKS for that great picture of 'Valley Valentine'. How spectacular! I like pieris in general but they aren't all fully hardy here, a real bad winter can knock out all but P 'Brower's Beauty' and P. floribunda itself unless they are carefully sited. Do you know a source? I am going to look for that one.

david,
You have just given me the thought to plant a clematis up my tea Viburnum. I would love its coral berries companioned with a deep red/burgundy clematis. Are there any fall blooming or re blooming clematis that you might recommend? The only autumn blooming clematis I know of is 'Sweet Autumn' and that is becoming a problem in my neck of the woods. kt

Try Clematis tangutica "Golden Tiara". It grows here happily in sandy Ph 6.5. I have it scrambling across an arbor right next to an Enkianthus Red Vein that does good.

I hadn't read your post when I posted about the Golden Tiara. It is yellow, obviously and blooms from mid summer through fall. Bloom time is right but color is off. This is a nice clematis, good growth each year. It gets about 12 ft.

This message was edited Jan 9, 2007 3:55 PM

This message was edited Jan 9, 2007 3:56 PM

Most clems with C. viticella in them will bloom into the fall some if fertilised and cut back some/ Might try Mme Jules Correvon or Abundance. Amother one to try is C. x texensis 'Gravetye Beauty' which is a very deep crimson red and blooms very late in the summer.

I personally think that purples look best with most of the berry colors of fall/ Lady Betty Balfour is quite late, plain old 'jackmanni' often blooms into the fall, also Roguuchi amd Petit Faucon.

There are fall blooming yellow clematis, C. orientalis and tangutica as mentioned. But those are mostly BIG plants, up to 20', and most tea viburnums I have seen just aint that big. I think you could swamp your viburnum with one of those, unless it is already pretty mature and big.

snappy,
I like the contrast of golden pedal with dark purple center on 'Golden Tiara' I will have to seek out a good spot for that clem. Thanks
david.
I bought both Abundance and Mme Jules Correvon from Completely Clematis a few years ago, neither one has done much for me, they were such young plants when they arrived that they still need a few years to prove themselves. I do like your idea of trying 'Gravetye Beauty' thanks kt

"ya-seen one ya seen 'em all' Oh My don't say that in front of Smarty Pants and on HIS thread to boot!

just kiddin'..........

The acid commentary is hovering around 4.5; just right. And I think I e-know David well enough to understand there weren't any "seen one, seen 'em all" plants in his garden.

Yes, it is pretty thick clay loam hovering in the 6.5-7.5 range (very droughty summers with high humidity) here in central KY. Not a Pieris playground, though some folks endeavor to try all things ericaceous.

I do have Clematis virginiana (a great native vine to supplant the pestiferous Asian sweet autumn clematis) which scrambles around my big 'Asian Beauty'.

Though that is like varnishing the viburnum.

David--you can get Valley Valentine at Lowes, at least around here. It and Mountain Fire(?--I think that's the name) are usually in abundance at every Lowes store. I am sure that none make it over winter, but still they sell. I have killed a few. 'Brower's Beauty' has survived here, as has the dwarf 'Cavatine'. Actually, 'Cavatine' has done exceptionally well, never showing any winter damage.

I (meaning my soil and winter) also killed a Mountain Fire from HD on sale. Oh well, next I shall try and kill an Enkianthus. Hopefully it will put up a better fight. I am guessing I won't find that in the gold pot at Home Depot.

Willis

Dear John,

Sorry, I just don't love you anymore...

Yours Truely, Patrick



ps. I'm keeping the shrub! :)

Bill:

Enkianthus seems to be cold hardy. Much easier plant. Mine certainly don't thrive, but they live!

I got the Pieris V.V. at Holden Arboretum's annual plant sale - there is an eccentric fellow - by all standards - who raises rare Japanese maples and a few other more difficult to find shrubs and trees up in Lake County, OH that shows up at that sale every year. I can look him up if anyone is near and interested. I don't think he even has a website. His latest passion seems to be oddly shaped shrubs and trees - whether by accident or design.
I'm surprised you could find Valley Valentine at Lowes - but there in a nutshell is an explanation for the decline of smaller nurseries.

I have very heavy acid clay as native soil - low nutrient content. In fact most of it is either gray or blue. That plant is in a peat and compost amended raised bed at the edge of the woods and gets about 5-6 hours of 'sun' that is intermittently filtered by very high canopy. The woods keeps the ground very cool and dampish.

I've looked at pics of Enkianthus and wondered if I could grow that in the shade in Zone 5. Are there some advantages to that over Pieris and rhododendrons?

Enkianthus may be hardier for you but IMHO after it blooms it is just a nothing shrub. But great in bloom.

I disagree - the fall color on mine is absolutely gorgeous.

I would be growing the Enkianthus for its fall colors and supposedly nice tiered form. I have heard that this shrub can have a tendency to just sit there not doing much for years before it grows to the point where it has a decent form and good fall color. Sounds like Kneevin is experiencing this. Flowers for me would just be a bonus. Any cultivars people recommend for Z5 Chicago with reliably good fall color.

Maybe it is just where I shop, but why is Sulfur so expensive? I think I paid 50 beans for a big bag last time.

Willis

What IS the exchange rate for beans now-a-days in the fair city of Lombard?