Blisters, cuts and the grass is "sort of" gone?

So I stood, kneeled, sat, squat and used an axe, pick and my hands to pull up an area of about 2' x 30' of grass, roots, rocks, glass and dirt today. I STILL see some roots even though my dear husband said I went a bit deep. In fact, at the point where the earth meets the sidewalk, the dirt is about 4" below. In any event, now that I've got hands that look like a cat's been scratching me and a bird's been pecking at me, is there any way to keep that stinkin' grass from growing back in that area? I should have planned this out but I got carried away. I don't have a border (other than what the axe made!) but I was thinking about placing bark chips in that section.

At the back of this area, there is an ugly chain-link fence that I've covered with mandevilla and blackberry bushes. I tried my darndest to get rid of the grass and weeds behind the branches of the plants but the neighbors don't garden and there are tons of weeds and these long spear-like leaves with pale yellow orchid looking flowers that bloom in the summer. I keep trying to push them away from laying against the fence (their side) as the leaves like to poke through to our side.

Now that I've got this area looking pretty good, how in the world am I going to keep that grass from taking over the area again? I read somewhere that laying a very thick layer of newspaper then mulch over the top will work. Has anyone heard of this?

Perhaps I need to get a steel border in place on both sides? I don't like the sound of "steel" but it sounds tough and sturdy. Perhaps if it's green, it will somewhat disappear.

In any event, I felt good about today's workout except I'm worried that it will be all for naught.

Any suggestions are much appreciated! Now I'll go soak my hands in something soothing and smear Theragesic on my back :-)

WTG! You have more energy than me! You might let it sit for awhile and see what comes up then hit it with a good dose of Round-up. By letting it start to come back, you have a better chance of permanently killing any growing bits of grass roots/stolons.Then put down a few layers of weed cloth (better than newspaper because it doesn't break down like newspaper and it lets water through plus you don't get a moldy mess) and on top of that some mulch.

If you get some seeds from your mandevilla, I'd certainly love to have some! I've tried to root cuttings of mandevilla to no avail.

X

Grass, eh?

Now that you've knocked the grass back down to that which is manageable, what about trying a selective product specifically for grass?

I've used both Poast and Fusilade when grass creeps into my iris beds but here's one from online that would probably work fine-
http://www.clyderobin.com/mixes/spec_grass_getter.html

Layers of newspaper will work too. So will landscape fabric.

Thanks for the link Equilibrium! I think I'll get some of that stuff for my canna bed which is overrun by bermuda grass!

I have used the newspaper before and ended up with a moldy mess after putting mulch on top of that because water tends to pool on it even if the paper is wet. Perhaps I missed a step.

X

When I've used newspaper, it was to be able to knock out competition to set plugs so I was puncturing the newspaper to create spaces to plant the plugs and didn't have the problem you described. I could see it happening though. Mostly I use 25 year landscape fabric covered with 3" of mulch. The landscape fabric is permeable to water so rain doesn't pool.

I think what I call weed cloth is what you call landscape fabric. I love that stuff.

X

Probably. I've grown to love that stuff! I went through about 10 rolls that were 4' by 100' this year and a few rolls that were 6' by something or other and I plan on going through many more next year. I was hesitant to use it because of the cost but finally bit the bullet and went for it and couldn't be happier. I would still elect to use newspaper when planting plugs in an area that I want to ultimately be filled exclusively with native vegetation. The inks are all soy based now and the newspaper will decompose in a considerably shorter time than the landscape fabric. You can also ram a small hand spade down into layers of newspaper to add more plugs but with landscape fabric you have to move mulch away from where you want to plant and then cut out an appropriate sized hole with a scissors. I can guarantee you will not easily be able to stab a hole to plant with a hand spade into landscape fabric.

I wouldn't recommend the weed cloth/landscape fabric if it's an area where you're going to be planting--it does bad things to the soil underneath it. There was a thread a while back where people were discussing the evils of landscape fabric--when I have more time later I'll see if I can find it and post a link here. It's OK to use it underneath things like patios, paths, etc but if you're planning to use the area for a garden you're better off with the newspaper + mulch.

I agree. I've been using it for landscaped islands in which a tree or two and shrubs or a few other plantings are all that's there as well as in front of long beds of iris and I've also been using it under slate chips for garden paths.

I pulled up the weed cloth under 75% of my parents landscaping. What a pain. I found gray stuff that I assumed what some sort of mold growing under the cloth, but on top of the dirt. It messed up my sinuses, whatever it was. I recently did a whole big area with newspapers and mushroom compost on top. At first I was doing nice thick layers of newspapers, but I was running out, so I had to quit with using it so thick. I don't have any mold growing at all. I also did probably 5 to 6 inches of mushroom compost. But I'm also in Equil's neck of the woods and not in an area that warms up ealier and stays humid longer than what we do.

Well fiddle-lee-dee! (sorry it's a beautiful morning and the birds are singing and I've been up since the crack of dawn)...

I wish I'd been more patient waiting on replies. I went ahead and dug a trench alongside the bed then we put down that fake wood (two long boards) that frames the border then put the fabric cloth down and then a very thick layer of bark. It looks really lovely and clean looking but now I'll be worried about the soil underneath. Drats!

Ecrane - the only plants that are growing along that fence are 3 mandevilla vines (one as been looking rather sickly for a while) and 5 blackberry vines. I hope they'll be strong enough if the soil starts to turn into something evil otherwise I'll have to start all over again.

I'm attaching a photo I took last night.

Happy Trails!
Nancy

If your blackberries are anything like the ones I had at my old house, they'll do just fine! I was constantly battling to keep them and the ivy from taking over the back garden. Plus half their roots are on the other side of the fence where there's no landscape fabric! For the mandevilla's, if one of them's looking sickly anyway they may already be on their way out, the landscape fabric certainly won't help, but pulling it up won't save them either if they were already suffering from something else. But if you decide to plant anything else there, you might want to take up the landscape fabric and do newspaper instead.

Hi Nancy,

I've been using weed cloth for a long time now .. it's on my greenhouse floor with pea gravel on top. After reading the post about it doing something to the dirt underneath, I went and checked all the beds that had it and didn't notice any mold or questionable stuff. I did a search on the net about weedcloth / landscape fabric and couldn't find anything negative about it.

Don't worry about it! and you did a terrific job btw!

X

Here's the old thread where this was discussed for anyone who's interested:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/597904/

I read the thread and they must be talking about something other than what I use. I have never found hardpan or mold under the weedcloth I use. I have however, found terrible mold under newspaper that was put down and mulch added on top of that.

X

Hey Nancy, looks great. That's pretty much what I did to create an open area the length of my iris bed.

Neat link ecrane. I read that thread and came away with this really great suggestion for the areas where I currently use newspaper... and run out of newspaper...

This was contributed by a member named gliz and it should work as well for me as neewspaper and I like the idea of the x to be able to insert new plants into an area where I've already been planting. I want the newspaper to degrade over time as existing plants put down roots to establish themselves because my goal is to fill in the entire area with plants. In the areas where I have used landscape fabric covered with mulch or landscape fabric covered with slate chips, I don't want anything growing other than the plants I have set back and it sure does reduce the time I have to weed.

Is there a difference in the landscape fabrics? All are allowed to breath, let water in etc etc?? The weed cloth I removed and found gray mold under at my parents, was put down by a landscape company, otherwise I have no idea on the brand. Looked like the same stuff I tried using once, but when weeds and such were growing on top of the fabric with the roots going down into the dirt, making it almost impossible to remove them, I pulled it all up at my own house. I've been using newspapers for about 4 years now and have never had a problem with mold. If I would of used the fabric when we lived in TN and the builder scraped away all the dirt leaving me hardpan, you would of indeed found hardpan under it. I'm wondering if what they're referring to and what I also found at my parents house, is that the dirt took on that shiny appearance like hardpan, but it wasn't. It was easily turned.

All this just an attempt at me saying I don't know why some people get mold and others don't. If it works for you, and you like it, then use it! :o)

I think that years ago people used to use black plastic which doesn't breathe at all and I'm sure is way worse than today's landscape fabrics, but my understanding of the thread I linked to above is that people were referring to today's landscape fabrics which can breathe and do allow some air/moisture exchange, but not as much as you would have if the landscape fabric weren't present. I think anything you buy today will be of this sort, the only difference is some materials are a little thicker and last longer than others, and some probably breathe better than others as well. Combining that with different levels of moisture could explain why some people see mold and some don't. Either way, after reading the discussion on that thread I don't plan to use landscape fabric under garden areas again.

Oh yes, I remember the black plastic! That was actually what I was replacing at our old house with the landscape fabric. I won't ever use it (plastic or fabric) again either, but if it works for some people, then hey. They should use it. It just wasn't a good experience for me. What really ticked me off at my parents? The landscapers put in many perennials and many trees and shrubs. Did they allow for the growth of any of them? Nope. The hosta, the peonies, the iris, all had slits, not holes, just little slits. The fabric was going up the trunk of 2 trees and all the shrubs. I've got almost all of it gone. The first few years, my dad kept asking me why weren't the "flowers" getting any bigger....when I went to find out, I found all that fabric. It overlapped and had those big honkin staple like things in them also.