I know there are no stupid questions, but...

I know there are no stupid questions, but... its amazing how much like a bonehead one can feel like when asking some of them. So, I've been looking at some of the seed starting systems in the different seed catalogs, like Park's "bio domes" or Johnny's "cell flats" etc. And two things keep wondering me.

1) How do you get the little plants out of the little cells without either butchering the plant or breaking up the plastic? They all say they are "reuseable", but with these ham hands of mine I just do not do "delicately" well. Does anyone use any of these? Do they work well? Are they reuseable?

2) How do you keep track of what is in which cell. The little cells look like they don't have room for a seed and a label. And I keep thinking that one good sneeze or a visiting 3 year old, and the garden becomes a turkey shoot as to what is where?

Any advise will be appreciated regardless of how dense I feel for having to ask. :)

Not a dumb question at all. I purchased the APS seed starting system from Gardener's Supply this past year. It's made of styrofoam with a capillary mat to allow the soil to pull in whatever moisture it needs. From a seed starting perspective, it worked very well. Getting the seedlings out to transplant was more difficult and I did break some of the styrofoam cubes. I finally realized I'm supposed to take the seed tray off the capillary mat and push the soil out of the cube from the bottom to avoid breaking them. Wish that point had been included in the instructions. I like using the contained system when starting seedlings in the house (the trays sit on my desk by the window, only place I have to put them).

I'm going to order one of the polystyrene ones from Lee Valley now and see if it is sturdier that the APS system from Gardener's Supply. It was definitely easier to start seedlings in flats in the garage, but that is not an option at the moment.


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I use something small and flat to push down between the wall and the potting mix and just lift out a seedling...a butterknife works well. If your cells are smaller than that, find something smaller...(I've got some really skinny steak knives)

I usually water just before potting up seedlings and that helps hold the root ball together.

As far as labels, I don't usually label each seedling...just each row. I write a code..or variety name on masking tape and stick it to the edge of the tray. I also make a master list of my trays in a notebook with information like dates and age of seeds.This way, if the tape gets removed or unreadable, I have a back-up.

Now, what I use may be a bit different...I don't use the commercial 'all-in-one' kits, just the black plastic nursery trays with about 64 cells per tray (give or take, depending on what's on hand) I just plant the seeds and loosely lay a piece of saran wrap across the top till I get germination from one plant...then the wrap comes off and the tray goes under the lights. Everything gets a good bleach bath before using the next year.

I start seeds in about anything...deli containers are nice if you need to start lots of peppers or tomatoes of all one kind...you can just dump the whole thing out on newspaper and pull the little plants apart with a dinner fork...(they like to have their roots disturbed...makes them grow a series of roots rather than 1 single taproot)

Yogurt or pudding cups make great containers for things that need to go directly to the garden like squash or okra. (two weeks max in the house ) Just flip it over in your hand with the stem between your fingers and tap the bottom...cup will slide right off.

If your roots have filled your cells and are stuck to the sides, you've left them in the container too long....in this case, cut the roots from the container to free it...and I trim the roots a bit before planting....but if this condition occurs....I generally just start new plants as a back-up...stressed and rootbound veggie plants won't grow and produce as well as those with plenty of room.

hope this helps

I usually use an old butterknife to lift seedlings, but with the styrofoam seed starters, even the light force needed to lift broke the sides of some of the cubes. Pushing the whole cube up from the bottom works a lot better. I use the 'all-in one' kits if I have to start the seeds in the house. They are spread about at various windows and keep the moisture and temps consistent. For seeds started outdoors under cloche or cover, I use the flats or reused black plastic six packs. Don't have the space to do those at the moment.

oldklingon, I use the APS system from Gardener's Supply and it has always worked marvelously for me. I get about 4 years use out of each unit, washing and disinfecting them after each use. I also use the 72 count black plastic cell system with the plastic dome. For those, I simply slide a common table spoon down one side and lift out the seedling plug containing the plant. I also wash, disinfect and re-use these trays.

Bill

A confession. Probably it would work better if I used some of the ways described above, but I just put some seeds in an old plastic yogurt, sour cream, or cottage cheese container, about 1 qt. size. I use my usual potting soil, put them under a grow light, or on a warming mat if heat is required, then keep them moist. This is terribly unscientific, but it works very nicely most of the time. Once the true leaves come out, I take the pot of seedlings out, and separate them one at a time and put them in small pots, usually pots left over from previous plant purchases, but sometimes leftover breakfast sized yogurt cups. I water them and let them grow under lights -- or outdoors if freezing isn't an issue.
I realize this is crude, but it works very well. My friends save their yogurt cups for me. Mostly the plants grow fine. I put them outside as soon as weather permits and keep them moist.
I have a friend who planted seeds in an egg carton, two per cell and gave me a bunch of tomato plants germinated that way. They grew very well also.
Perhaps I would do better to buy a system, but so far, I have been happy with my homegrown method.

Hey, if it ain't broken, don't fix it! Sounds to me like your home-grown system works just fine for you and that's what counts. I really like the convenience and productivity of the APS and other "store bought" trays, but I'll also use egg cartons, yogurt cups, milk cartons, plastic clam shell containers, and even paper beverage cups. I used to use styrofoam cups, but don't anymore because of the difficulty in recyling them - and we recycle nearly everything around here!

Bill

I just run a toothpick around the sides of the cell then give the plastic a little push from the bottom. They usually pop right out. (I can assure you, Ms. Frugal here uses everything until it's DEAD! And even then, I've bee known to cut off the offending cell and continue to use the cell pack! And this is just with the ones I'm given - can't even imagine what I'd do if I actually paid for them!!!)

Don't you find that the egg crates dry out too quickly?

I'm thinking of linking the broken cells with a black plastic cell cut from a pony pack. As long as the bottom touches the wicking mat, it should work. We'll see what happens. I used to use yoghurt cups and other containers. They worked well, but it was hard for me to keep them organized and since I often need to move the containers for a hour or so to use the desk space, the all in ones are easier for me to handle.

Has anyone tried using those papier mache end pieces that hold printer & toner cartridges in the shipping boxes? They have 4" and 5" deep "wells" in them, which would be great for deep root systems. Problem would be whether they'd fall apart after the moisture hit them, cause they are only pressed paperboard.

Please advise on this as I have access to boucoup of them here in my office building!

I LOVE the APS system from Gardeners Supply. When it's time to take out the seedings, you remove the styrofoam tray that was holding the capillary mat up. You flip this over, it has round pegs on the other side, and lay it flat - then you just place the styrofoam cell pack on top, press gently, and voila! the seedlings in their cells just pop right out. If you don't want to push them all out at once, you can just use part of the tray, or you can push them out easily with your fingers. (I have only used the 24 cell ones, the ones with more cells might be more difficult) The only thing I don't like about them is that you have to lift the tray off the capillary mat fairly often, otherwise the roots stick to the mat. Although this is not the end of the world - I just take a knife and use that to cut between the bottom of the soil and mat. I also use the germinating mix from Gardeners Supply to grow the seeds. The whole system is great, I always get near 100% germination. I just rinse them off, and soak the capillary mat in a bleach solution, and the thing is ready to go again.

I tried two of the 72 cell flats from Burpee last year, with the germinating pellets. I will NEVER buy that again. First off, the pellets were such a pain - I thought they would be easier than loose soil, but it took forever to moisten them properly and get them to expand to the right side. Second was that it truly was impossible to get the seedlings out to transplant. I ended up using a lot of swear words, ripped some seedlings apart, and ended up destroying the whole tray. They were also really flimsy, and impossible to carry when water was in the reservoir (even to just rotate the tray was impossible) without spilling water. The tray underneath this capillary mat is also designed to push out the seedlings if flipped over, but they are long and narrow and don't always push out the whole rootball (sometimes they just skewer it), and if you don't want to take out all the seedlings at once (which with 72 I didn't), you can't use it.

Anyway, those are my two cents, for whatever its worth.

Diviya

Diviya, thank you for the directions on how to remove the seedlings. It would have been nice if the directions that came with the APS system had shown that. The instructions that came with mine do not give any information on removing the seedlings. I'll try it your way with my repaired styrofoam tray.

garden_mermaid,

You're welcome - I'm not sure if mine had those instructions or not. I feel like it must have, because I can't imagine figuring it out on my own LOL! Maybe yours is older than mine.

I realized oldklingon was also asking about labeling. You can fit markers in the cells. The APS systems come with wooden markers, but I don't like them because I find that they get moldy and gross, and when I take them out a hunk of soil comes with them. I've ordered small plastic plant markers from Burpee this year, which I expect will work much better. They come in two sizes - I've ordered both, and will see which is better for the seed flats.

Gymgirl, I've never used what you've described, but I would think it might work. You would have to hold the containers in a plastic tray or something so that if they did disintegrate, the dirt wouldn't be everywhere. They are selling little pots made out of manure on Gardeners Supply which I think look similar to the paper mache. You might be able to plant these right in the ground. My suggestion would be to give it a try for a couple of seedlings, see how it goes, and then you can always go whole hog next year if it works.

Hope that helps.

Diviya

Where did you purchase your APS system? I bought mine from Gardener's Supply. There were no markers provided with them! I put a dot of red nail polish on one side of the styrofoam container, then drew a grid on a piece of paper and filled in what was planted in each square. I made markers only when I transplanted.

Speaking of ham handed, when handling the seedlings, I read the suggestion to pick them up by a leaf rather than try to gently grab the stem and accidentally crush it. It could even lose a leaf and live.

GardenMermaid - I did order mine from Gardeners Supply, but I ordered the quick start kit, or something like that, where you get 2 24 cell APS's, 9 quarts of germinating mix, wooden markers, and a water level indicator. I think it works out a bit cheaper that way.

I've got two deep well systems from GS, but since my seedlings grew so leggy, I just did a makeshift transplant last night. I divvied the cell pellet and wrapped a layer of Jiffy Mix around each root ball and then set that ball into another open tray. Worked just great, although my seedlings just are flopping all over the place. I see now why good trellis systems are so necessary. Anybody invented one for the seedlings, yet?

Gymgirl, sounds like your seedlings need more light, or a stronger one. I have to move my seedlings under protection outdoors or under growlights soon after they sprout or they get leggy.

Klingon,
I've watched this thread for a little while, and I expected somebody to talk about the same method I use. Haven't seen it yet. So, here's my method.
I visit Dollar General or some other cheapo outlet and buy a package of 3 dozen 8 ounce styrofoam coffee cups for about $2 or less. Before i use them I poke a hole in the bottom of each, using a 16 penny nail. Then I use a box cutter with that razor sharp blade to make perforations about halfway down each cup, around the circumference of the cup. 1/2 inch cut thru the styrofoam, followed by 1/4 inch or less space NOT perforated.
I fill each one right to the top with potting soil, and then plant 2 seeds per coffee cup. Pinch off the weakest one that sprouts. when I'm ready to transplant to the garden I thoroughly moisten each cup and then use my fingernail to pinch off the bottom half of the perforated coffee cup. The bottom half slides right off and I transplant what is left, including the top half of the coffee cup.
The reason I leave the top half of the coffee cup in place is because we have cut worms here. They like to burrow along just under the surface of the soil, and when they find a new seedling, they just eat right thru it. But with the styrofoam "collar" in place to protect the seedling, I defeat the cut worms.
For me, it may be a bit more labor intensive, but it is well worth it. There have been seasons when I have direct seeded a dozen okra plants, only to watch 2/3 of them chewed off at ground level.

Thanks for all the info. I've been out of touch with computer problems all month. Now I'm getting caught up with reading all the posts. Has anyone else tried a different system? This has gotten real interesting.