black scale?

i live in ypsilanti, mi and the woods and fields near my house are dying from a black
scale....the head gardener at st joe's hospital called it a scale and took it up to state to have it keyed out. he has lost 400 trees to the ash borer and was happy to get the jump on this disease. it has jumped into my ornamentals and he suggests to have ag oil sprayed on my plants this spring. since i don't believe in toxins whatsoever i have never paid much attentiom to disease and have always blamed myself for a plants demise....i can see now that i haven't done a thing to cause this and it has killed my washington hawthorn , my magnolia, a blue spruce, and it is killing 3 japanese maples and a dawn redwood...and so on....it kills pretty much everything by sucking the cambium layer dry. any ideas? all the hawthorns in the fields are dead......ypsi does not take care of its trees so nothing is being done so i would appreciate any info you could provide that might help me save my remaing trees and shrubs...evidently it is spred when the air is moist and a cut or wound has been made to the bark. ag oil will probably buy me some years but probably the plants are doomed ...what do i do now?

Welcome to the michigan forum...Poppy tea...hehe neat nick...I do not know much about trees but..I am sure someone will come along..welcome...and keep in touch...we are west of you..maybe 35-40 miles...so close...hehehe...right down us 12...

Smiles...Diana

Welcome poppytea,

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. I used to live in Ypsilanti back in the 70's. I think you should ask this question in the tree and shrub forum here on Dave's Garden. There are some very smart people there who can help I promise.

Brenda

Please let us know what you find out.

take a sample or a good picture to Bob Bricault at the Washtenaw Extension office on Zeeb Road. He is a real tree expert.

Paul

What trees are left?
This alleged Black Scale is attacking both deciduous and coniferous trees?
Are you in a position to post photos of the scale on your deciduous trees as well as on your coniferous trees and the resulting damage?

There's a Black Scale (Saissetia oleae) that infests Olive Trees as well as quite a few stone fruiting trees and maybe a few others but I didn't think we had that in our area. Did the head gardener specifically state all the trees (both deciduous and coniferous) had Black Scale? There's another Black Scale/Pine Tortoise Scale or rather Black Sooty Mold (Toumeyella parvicornis) out there? Common names can be really confusing and as you can see, Toumeyella parvicornis has three common names and might even have more and to add insult to injury... there are a few different types of Black Scales- Saissetia oleae and Toumeyella parvicornis. Black Sooty Mold (Toumeyella parvicornis) is pretty tough to eradicate particularly if trees are touching or rather planted in close proximity. But I thought Black Scale (Toumeyella parvicornis) only infested conifers and specifically pines? If this is what you have (and I don't know that you do or don't), you might want to seriously consider researching a biological control such as a parasitic wasp (parasitic wasps are not interested in humans so don't let the name scare you off from considering a parasitic wasp) or possibly the merits of ordering Ladybug Beetles by the thousands to begin controlling the population. Incredibly, biologically controlling such an infestation might be a lot less stressful because it would be considerably less labor intensive and my bet is more affordable in the long run too. There's a Magnolia Scale (Neolecanium cornuparvum) out there that feeds on Magnolia as the name suggests but I don't think it ever infests coniferous trees and I don't think a biological control would be in one's best interests if this is what you have. You could use dormant oils but the timing of your application will be critical. I think the time to apply is mid to late August through to late October and again in early March so you could get the crawlers as well as the overwintering nymphs in spring. One issue though, when using dormant oils you need to thoroughly wet down all leaves, branches, and I believe even the trunks for some forms of scale. Hawthorn Trees seem to be favored by a few scales but I've never had to deal with any on my Hawthorns so I wouldn't even begin to take stabs in the dark at what might be nailing your Hawthorns.

There are many scales out there. For your ornamental Japanese Maples, you might want to consider an early spring soil drench with imidacloprid/Merit for systemic control. Merit can control quite a few scales if applied at the appropriate time.

I have property in Michigan. I have confidence in the extension offices for this state in both lower Michigan as well as the UP where my land is. I would strongly encourage you to bring samples from all affected species into the man suggested by paulgrow or possibly get a certified arborist out there before you do anything because you are commenting about a host of different species being affected and this is defying logic to me right now. Please know I am not an expert in anything... not even my own children or husband these days.

My heart goes out to you as I sense your total frustration. My suggestion would be to not do anything until you have your "foe(s)" properly identified. There are around 20 some odd scales (both armored and soft bodied) out there and each one is a little bit different. With the EAB wiping you out you have got to be under a considerable amount of stress as it is. Hold on and try your best to not worry too much while you get a Latin name to all that has come to visit you. I don't know why but I have this little voice whispering to me that you might have more than one type of an infestation. Depending on what you have, this may not be as bad as what you think because some scales can be brought under control by doing absolutely nothing which enables natural predators to do their "thing" over a few years.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I'm sort of a plant enthusiast and read and experiment for the sake of learning as much as I can about biolodical controls. I am vehemently opposed to chemicals particularly fungicides but please know that some times... the use of chemicals can't be avoided. Please be open to them as a possibility depending on what scale it is that you actually have.

THANKS TO ALL FOR YOUR AINTEREST AND SUGGESTIONS. I CALL IT BLACK SCALE BECAUSE IT TURNS THE BRANCHES BLACK AND SCALE BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE HEAD MAN FROM ST JOE'S SAID IT WAS. I CAN SEE IT NOW EVERYWHERE I LOOK. TONIGHT WE WENT TO WALK IN THE CATHOLIC CEMETERY DOWN RIVER STREET AND SOMEONE IS CLEARING MUCH TWIGGY BRUSH ON THE NEXT LOT OVER PERHAPS TO BUILD ON THE LAND. ANYWAY. ALL OF THAT SHRUBBY TWIGGY PLANT MATERIAL IS BLACKENED FALLING DOWN AND UNTHRIFTY LOOKING.I DON'T KNKOW FOR A FACT THAT IT IAS KILLING MY BIG BLUE SPRUCE BUT THE BRANCHES ARE BLACKENED AND IT IS DYING FROM YJE YOP DOWN. FOR THE LAST 5 YEARS OR SO IT HAS BEEN SUFFERING FROM SOME BUG THAT INVADES THE TIPS OF THE NEW GROWTH, TURNS IT PINK AND KILLS IT. I WENT FOR YEARS JUST MINDING MY BUSINESS AND PLANTING THIS AND THAT LIKE A FRAND EXPERIMENT AND I GUESS I AM TERRIBLY NAIEVE...YOU PROBABLY BRING HOME ALL SORTS OF PESTS AND DISEASE EVERY TIME YOU BUY A PLANT FROM A NURSERY. SOME PLANTS SEEM TO LINGER FOR AWHILE...MY DAWN REDWOOD SEEMS TO BE HOLDING ON. I MADE A HUGE MISTAKE WHICH WAS FUEL FOR THIS BLACK MONSTER...I SPRAYED MY TREES
WITH WATER BECAUSE THEY WERE DUSTY AND DIRTY AND LOOKED LIKE THEY NEEDED A DRINK....YJAY MAY HAVE BEEN TRUE BUT THE STUFF TAKES OFF IN THE WET SPRING AND THEREFORE I MADEIT EASIER FOR THE SCA;E TO SPREAD AROUND. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, I BOUGHT A FEW BARGAIN BARBERRY BUSHES FROM THE LANDSCAPER DOWN THE STREET AND THEY ARE COVERED WITH THE BLACK STUFF NOW AND GOT THAT WAY SITTING BY MY DRIVEWAY WAITING TO BE PLANTED. HE PLANTED THEM DOWN AT HIS BUSINESS AND THEY HAVE IT TOO. THE LANDSCAPER DOES NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS. I DON'T FEEL LIKE PLANTING THESE BUSHES WHEN THEY ARE ALREADY TURMIMG BLACK. I PLANTED A RED TWIG DOG WOOD THIS SUMMER TO MAKE A PLACE WHERE MY DOGS CAN HIDE AND LO AND BEHOLD IT HAS BLACK DEAD BRANCHES NOW ...A BLACK TWIG DOGWOOD WITH MORE THAN 1/2 OF ITS BRANCHES DEAD. SORT OF RUINS MY FUN IF EVERYTHING DIES BEFORE I HAVE DONE ANYTHING TO IT I WILL REREAD EQUILIBRIUMS HINTS RE WHAT IF ANYTHING I CAN DO TO SALVAGE WHAT I STILL HJHAVE....IS SCALE AN INSECT TYPE DISEASE? LITTLE CRAWLY THINGS THAT LATCH ON? BECAUSE IT ISN'T SCALE THEN AS I HAVE SEEN NO INSECTS LATCHING ON JUST BLACK SWOLLEN GALLS WHERE BRANCH AND LEAF NODES ARE LOCATED AND THEN BLACK COLORATION ALONG THE WHOLE BRANCH WHICH IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SCRAPE OFF. I TOOK A TWIG OF EACH TO THE ST JOES HEAD GROUNDSMEN.
AND HE CALLED IT SCALE . HOPEFULLY WHATEVER IT IS WILL BLOW AWAY IN THE WIND COME SPRING.
POPPYTEA

I drove past Yipsi yesterday on my way to Dixboro General Store,and took notice of the trees off of I75..they seem to have lots of dead trees..That new Sub by Domino Farms all the trees looked black...I sure hope this problem gets solved,before it hits the farm...

Our highways in Michigan look bad enough with all the litter bugs throwing their trash out the windows,plus all our POT HOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Poppy i want to welcome you to davesgarden and if you need anything just ask and someone will be along to help you!
this is a great site and a great group of Michiganders!!!

welcome
dori

Hey Poppytea,

Welcome to DG. I just clicked on your user name after I read Dori's comments and realized you were two days old here!

What you described on your Spruce could be a needle cast disease or something as simple as drift from a chemical or something entirely different. You'll need to take in a sample of that to someone other than the head groundsman. Please get yourself some large ziplock baggies (I have 3 gallon baggies for just this purpose). Please place a separate specimen of what is going on from every single tree or shrub that is affected to include the Blue Spruce into individual baggies that are labeled with the type of tree or shrub it came from. Now please consider by-passing the head groundsman by contacting that man suggested by paulgrow- "Bob Bricault at the Washtenaw Extension office on Zeeb Road". Bring a thin sharpie black marker with you and write your notes right on the outside of each baggie as you speak with him. I'm pretty darn sure that you've got more than one issue going on here and to lump it all into the category of an unidentified black scale probably could end up being very costly. It is not likely that what ever is going on here will blow away in the wind come spring...other than over to another tree or shrub to infect even more.

Yes, scale is an "insect" disease. I've picked it up before by purchasing plants that were infected from nurseries. You really have to be on the lookout for "unhealthy" plants because often times, overwintering nymphs are clearly visible to the naked eye... if you know what to look for. Unfortunately, I dropped the ball and didn't know what to look for and assumed plants I had bought were healthy because they came from a reputable nursery. Well, just as bad things happen to good people... bad things happen to good nurseries. I am now considerably more careful when purchasing plants but please know that a very long time ago someone took the time to show me what to look for and then I took it from there by attending workshops in my local area and even now I slip up and miss ickies and nasties. Your extension office is your best bet right now if you want to start getting to the root of your problems and the service is free because it's your tax dollars that help support them. You need to get all of your foes properly identified before you can move on to trying to get a grip on the situation.

Hang in there,
Lauren

Poppytea,

Listen to Lauren. She knows her stuff. She helped me get rid of a very bad aphid problem I had on a new tri colored beech tree. I ordered and used the Orthene and also put ant traps at the bottom of the tree. Ants bring in the aphids. They're partners in crime I guess. It worked perfect. No more aphids.

Whenever I get stuck on a problem I ask Lauren or post in the tree forum. There is a lot of expertise there. Do what she says and take samples in to your county extension service for evaulation.

I'm very sorry this is happening to your property.

Brenda

I know some "stuff". Unfortunately, the more I learn (sigh), the less I seem to know.

Hey Loon, I'm really glad the Orthene worked for you and I'm really glad the ant baits worked too. It's nice when something shared is able to benefit another. I must admit I am giggling about your partners in crime comment. I never thought of it that way before but some ants certainly do "farm" some aphids.