Has anyone else had the misfortune to deal with these?
I have, and why oh why didn't I check the garden Watchdog! Because they appear to be a professional lot!
http://davesgarden.com/gwd/c/3667/
I spent $57 for some rare seeds they are supposed to have from their plant hunting expeditions, with location of collection, or seeds from named collections. Yes, $, not £'s. One does wonder for a start, when they are in Wales, why they list in $'s. I assumed it was because they viewed their market to be primarily with the US, or perhaps a tax avoidance, I don't know!
The web site does NOT have any contact details on it, and the only way you can contact them is from their email address on the Paypal confirmation, or return from their nice email they send you a week after you place the order to tell you they will send the seeds next week.
ANOTHER ALARM BELL! What seed company emails you to tell you they will send the seeds? I told myself it's because we know they may be away plant hunting and have good customer service, so we are not worrying. NO seeds. I emailed on 29th October, (the order was placed on 6th October, they emailed on the 13th.), I wait, no reply, no seeds, then one forgets for a while. Then you look at the web site for an address and find there isn't one, nor a phone number to speak to them. I emailed again on 5th December, and yes by then it's too late to claim with Paypal, and Paypal is the only method of payment on their web site!!!!! 45 days is the time limit, that's why I originally emailed to give myself time, but time goes by too quickly!
I decided to google and see if I could find their address, and I came across the negative feedbacks on DG!!! I still put in a complaint at Paypal, but we all know that is useless! I doubt if the credit card company will refund anything after more than 2 months either!
I have emailed my problem to BBC Consumer Watchdog! Watch this space! They may not even reply, but I am on the warpath!
JJA Seeds
See their address is listed on the garden watchdog page as:
'Bryn Collen', Ffostrasol, Llandysul, Wales, SA44 5SB
BT Phone search gave negative results, but 192.com confirmed the names at this address on the local electoral roll, so the place exists.
Anyone down that way who could pay them a visit??
Try contacting Ceredigion District Council trading standards officers?
Resin
Hi Resin,
I did see their address on the watchdog, but one feedback says they wrote to them and was ignored, so that won't help. They obviously don't want anyone to contact them!
If Ceredigion District Council is the area they are in then perhaps it's worth a try, I just hope the BBC Watchdog want to get involved. There's something fishy going on, either they just don't care or they have a sneaky employee sifting off some of the smaller buyers money!
I am on a mission, Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!! Did you read the other feedbacks?
Yep, saw the other feedbacks - they look to be a pretty disreputable place. Looks like a husband-and-wife team, I'd doubt they have any other employees to be on the take. My guess would be that they collect a few seeds of each thing, send them to the first two people to apply (so accounting for the occasional positive reports), and then just keep the money from the next 20 people to apply even though there's no seeds left.
Resin
There must be somewhere I can complain to, I did threaten them with the police! I'm not prepared to let it lie, even if Ihave to go to a national newspaper. They can just keep doing this and no-one can do anything about it, the small time criminals are left alone unless many people complain. I doubt many do know where to complain.
They can just use the excuse that they sent the seeds and they never arrived, it's places like DG where the obvious becomes apparent.
Wallaby1 - I just can't understand this, although I haven't ordered from them this year, I have always had excellent service and results from them previously. They do have a strong reputaton amongst growers.
I think a letter is definately the next step, as well as a request to paypal to intervene. They would have contact address/telephone. I think if you give PP the history of your contact, with your reasoning for waiting they will support you on this. Worth a try.
Again, I am just terribly surprised, and really sorry it is causing you so much upset. Gardening/growing is suppose to be exciting and a pleasure.
Hi Laurie
If they really wanted anyone to be able to contact them by letter, I would have thought this information would have been available online. Emails go unanswered, so is a letter going to be any different? One of the Watchdog feedbacks mentioned having writing to them with no result.
I did try the Paypal dispute system, even though it stated 45 days limit. The request is there, but listed as unopen. They have their deadline rules and that is as far as they will go, even so they are not really interested. I also emailed Paypal Europe to make a complaint, outlining my reason but I doubt if I will hear from them.
There is definitely something going on there, I googled and found them being discuseed on GW as well.
A good £30 down the drain I think, and it isn't money I had to spare! I do wonder how many other people have had the same problem, I wouldn't have thought to look on DG if I hadn't come across them on a google search, surprising isn't it, but I wouldn't check out such as Chilterns either as I know they are genuine.
Perhaps if others that have dealt with them email them to voice their concerns, and make them aware that they are being discussed on the www they might take notice! It shouldn't have to be like that, but if I get the seeds or my money back then I definitely won't be dealing with them again. I stopped buying off anyone I didn't know on ebay because I had a similar problem, but less money, they just ignore you and know it becomes too late by the time you realise you're not going to get your goods.
Their email addres is sales@jjaseeds.com
I have gone to Paypal to have another look, as when I filed the dispute it stated the 45 days were up, but i continued anyway. On returning to check on dispute, cases, it states none open. When I view all cases the lodged complaint is there, but I have had no indication at all from Paypal that it will be dealt with in any form.
I checked th Qestions section and found this:
Protection Policies
For a non-receipt complaint filed 45 days after the transaction date, what is required for a seller to resolve a deferred dispute?
To resolve a deferred dispute within 45 calendar days of the dispute being filed, a seller needs to satisfy one of the following requirements :
Provide a refund to the buyer for the full amount of the disputed transaction.
Provide proof of a previously issued refund to the buyer for the full amount of the disputed transaction
Work with the buyer to cancel the deferred dispute
Note: This criteria also applies to resolving a deferred dispute for a not-as-described dispute on a non-eBay item filed more than 45 days after the transaction date.
If the seller does not attempt to resolve the deferred dispute within the specified time period, PayPal will process the buyer's refund, and access to the seller's PayPal account will remain limited.
According to that if they don't refund the money then Paypal should do it 45 days after the lodged complaint, but without any indication from Paypal that they have contacted them how do I know what is going on? I can't see there is another process to do this. I emailed Paypal last night and haven't heard from them. It almost looks like they provide the answer you want to see, but have no intentions to do anything!
While I'm looking I will post other details fro easy reference:
Protection Policies
How is a complaint filed in the European Union (EU) processed?
The PayPal Customer Service team works to resolve the vast majority of complaints and queries to your satisfaction as speedily as possible. There may be occasions, however, where a customer is not satisfied with the response he/she has received, or a more detailed investigation of the complaint is needed. In such instances, the Customer Service team will refer the complaint to a specialist on the Escalations Team, who will provide you with a full and detailed response to your complaint. If the Customer Service team cannot provide you with a full response, we shall keep you informed of developments.
If, after receipt of this detailed response, you are not satisfied, please contact the Customer Service team again to discuss any outstanding matters.
Filing a Complaint
If there is an issue with the level of service provided, the first step to resolve the issue is to bring the matter to the attention of our dedicated Customer Service Team using the Complaint webform.
Read the User Agreement
You may also contact us via postal mail:
PayPal
Attn: PPEL Customer Complaints
PO Box 9473
Dublin 15
Ireland
Information You Need to Provide
Your name, login email address, and any additional references such as transaction ID (Do NOT disclose your password to anyone, including PayPal staff), Your contact details such as email or phone number. Please also provide a clear description of your complaint and details on what you would like us to do to resolve the issue.
How We Will Handle Your Complaint
Once our Customer Service Team has been provided with detailed information of the problem, they will work to resolve the matter to our customers' satisfaction fairly, efficiently and promptly. When we have resolved your complaint, we will contact you to confirm details of the action we have taken.
If you are not satisfied after receipt of this detailed response, please contact us again to discuss any matter which may be outstanding.
If you are still not satisfied and it appears the matter cannot be resolved satisfactorily, you may be able to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service. This would depend on several factors, including the nature of the complaint. The Ombudsman Service exists to help resolve individual disputes between consumers and financial firms. Each case is considered impartially and on its own merits. A leaflet explaining the Financial Ombudsman Service is available on request. Alternatively, the Ombudsman can be contacted directly at the following address:
Financial Ombudsman Service
PO Box 4
South Quay Plaza
183 Marsh Wall
London
E14 9SR
Telephone: 0845 080 1800
For further information, visit the Financial Ombudsman Service website at: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk
What is a deferred complaint?
A deferred complaint (previously known as a voided complaint) is defined as a Buyer Complaint that meets the following criteria:
Any complaint filed more than 45 days after the transaction date
Not-as-described complaint for a non-eBay item filed within 45 days of the transaction date
What is the difference between the Buyer Complaint Process and PayPal Buyer Protection?
When a dispute is escalated to a claim, PayPal determines which protection coverage applies and processes the claim accordingly.
Buyer Complaint Process: Helps protect PayPal members by covering non-delivery of items and items that are significantly not as described. PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only to payments for tangible, physical goods that can be posted. It does not apply to intangibles, services, quasi-cash, non-physical goods or licences and other access to digital content.
PayPal Buyer Protection: An extension of PayPal's Buyer Complaint Process. Under PayPal Buyer Protection, when you use PayPal to pay for a qualified listing on eBay.at, eBay.be, eBay.ca, eBay.ch, eBay.com, eBay.com.au, eBay.co.uk, eBay.de, eBay.es, eBay.fr, eBay.ie, eBay.it or eBay.nl, you are eligible for up to £500.00 GBP of coverage at no additional cost.
THE FINAL QUESTION I HAVE ENCOUNTERED IS PROBALBY THE STUMBLING BLOCK!
Protection Policies - Buyer Complaint Process
Does the Buyer Complaint process cover disputes if I buy from a non-US PayPal member?
At this time, we are unable to offer additional protections for transactions with our non-US members. However, if you encounter a problem, please file a claim and we will investigate on your behalf.
So, if I was in the US I would be OK with any luck, I don't hold out any hopes for their 'investigate on your behalf'.
This message was edited Dec 11, 2006 7:20 PM
I had thought as I wasn't in an actual 'dispute' that I wouldn't be able to request their contact details. I looked at one last question, that was how to determine if a Paypal member was US, non-US and 'verified' or not.
Of course, they are non-US, but Verified. The details of all transacions can be found in the 'History', it also stated that contact details would be accessible from there. I scrolled to the bottom of the page, and hey presto, their PHONE NO. was there! Even if I can't get hold of them, I have more to go on!
I curse them for doing this to me!
I think - cursing is absolutely justified when someone is really rattling your box! One of the things I do if someone really gets to me is one, decide it is now a hobby (that stops me feeling helpless and angry, and allows me to carry on a fight without embarassment. I have a long running hobby with Westminster Council on rubbish collection) - and two become an absolute nudge (a bit like attacking marestail really, you just have to stay after it and after it). I would start leaving 3 messages a day on their phone, and the same number of e-mails. And do it every day until you get through. I just think if I can make myself the irritant it stops irritating me.
The other thing is to be sure and post any contact details you find on the DG site so others can follow up too.
You might want to include in your e-mails that they now have a negative rating on the board, and that you have filed a complaint with Paypal. They won't want either of those. And you might want to keep e-mailing paypal too insisting they do follow this up for you.
Who knows, you might irritate them enough to come through, you might irritate Paypal enough to take 'outside the US' seriously. And you just might effect real change - go for it Wallaby! But you will also have a lot more fun being the irritant than the irritated.
OK, I have had a reply from Paypal, the following with some references such as case number deleted:
"Allow me to begin by apologising for the obvious frustration this
situation has caused. I have reviewed the Buyer Complaint for
Non-Receipt .................. you filed against James Archibald on the 10th
of December 2006. As previously stated, any request filed outside the
allocated 45 day timeframe will not be investigated initially but the
complaint will be noted in the record of the reported PayPal user. The
seller will be notified of the reimbursement request and encouraged to
work towards an amicable resolution.
From that point onward we monitor the activity on your seller's account.
If there are further buyer complaints, fraudulent patterns of behaviour
or if we find the user has violated our policies, we reserve the right
to reopen your case for investigation and take appropriate action. If
this occurs, you may be contacted in the future about the status of the
filed request.
If in the meantime you wish to take legal action against this individual
or wish to involve the police please be advised that we will cooperate
fully and can provide law enforcement with further information on Mr.
Archibald. I would advise you contact him directly and explain your
intent as this might prompt him to take the appropriate steps to resolve
matters.
The terms of the policy are presented within many areas of the PayPal
website including the User Agreement and the Security Centre. With
millions of users, PayPal cannot make exceptions of this policy on an
individual basis, as doing so would be an unfair business practice.
Please note that although the claim is closed, the dispute is noted in
the seller's account records.
You can review the PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy in our User Agreement
by clicking on https://www.paypal.co.uk/useragreement or copy and paste
the entire link into the address bar.
Ms. ......., normally we would advise our members in such circumstances
to file a claim with eBay as they have a 60-day timeframe within which
to take such action. Unfortunately upon review of the transaction
details I can see that even that timeframe has elapsed. As the
transaction was funded via credit card I would advise you contact your
credit card issuer as you may find that their timeframes differ from our
own.
We value your business and regret that you have had this experience. To
avoid similar experiences in the future, we recommend that you read the
Security Tips on our website by clicking on
https://www.paypal.co.uk/buyertips or copy and paste the entire link
into the address bar.
I do hope this has helped clarify what has taken place. Allow me to
reiterate our complete understanding of your frustration on this matter
and offer any further assistance we can provide."
From that email it would appear to me they have more information if they are willing to back me with a police action.
I have emailed jjaseeds and told them of my intentions if they do not refund my money in the very near future.
I should perhaps also contact my credit card company to find out what their policy is.
Let this be a warning to others, first check DG Watchdog! Reputations are sometimes not what they appear to be, you unfortunately have to be one of those stung to find out the truth.
I would also urge anyone else who has had a problem to make a complaint to Paypal, it is only if people do this they can be stopped. It doesn't matter if the time is well past what is allowed, the complaint will be lodged and Paypal will have it on record.
Thanks for the encouragement Laurie! These people didn't reckon on me coming along! I had thought of emailing them constantly, but they can block those if they wish. They may already have done, in which case they won't have heard from me. I have their phone number, i will give them a short time to respond then I will try to ring them. It won't be long before I contact the police if they don't play ball!
I haven't told them they are being plastered all over Daves Garden, gosh I have seen ebay sellers coming here to plague people making complaints, I need to do the dirty on them like they did the dirty on me! I will be the pleasure seeker then! I did mention to them in the email I sent last night that I knew I wasn't the only one they were doing this to, I told them to check out Daves Garden Watchdog!
I did tell Paypal of their feedback on Daves Garden and I guess they have checked it out.
Sorry but how do you know they didn't actually send the seeds and they got lost in the post?
If there terms and conditions state that they expect the buyer to take responsibility for the safe arrival of the seeds and that you agree to that by placing the order. Then all they need to say is that they did post them.
Maybe they have so few go missing world wide, that they think it is you who is "trying it on" by saying you didn't recieve the seeds when actually you did. So there ignoring you.
The police won't touch it as it won't go to court. Unless you take them to small claims. But that will cost you more than you will get back.
Also i'm surprised all companies don't have a negative rating. As who writes a report saying there sale went according to plan. Its only when it goes wrong people are called to action.
Hate to be negative but these are questions you need to answer.
Contact details for jjaseeds, their address is on the Garden Watchdog. Email address I have given above, also on Watchdog.
I will give a phone number here, at the moment it might be best to leave it off Watchdog in case they find it and change their number.
jjaseeds phone number is (44) (0)1239851470 where the 44 is outside the UK access to this country, the '0' wasn't included but should be for inland.
yes Mike I hate you to be negative too.
That is exactly how crooked sellers cover themselves. I will say no more other than Paypal would not be willing to back me with informaiton if they thought it was a genuine case of seeds going missing.
I have had seeds from all over the world, Chile, Sth Africa,US. Too much smoke mostly means fire.
I agree but i must urge you to ensure you have done everything correctly. Otherwise you never know how they may re-act. Worse case being that you end up in court for slander or something silly. (very unlikely i know)
I agree this is how crooked sellers use the law to do business. But if they are crooked im sure they wouldn't worry about a few phone calls and emails. If they are crooked and you manage to dent there business enough to affect them, they will re open under another name soon enough.
I also think that if you going to set up a dodgy business you would choose a more lucrative product!
Usually these things are simply a case of poor customer service, enduced from people running a business that grew from a passion rather than true business people.
I always worry about emails like the one from Paypall. I notice they say everything they want you to hear, cover there "behind" and do absolutley nothing. This is a case of GOOD customer service. Everyone feels happy but nothing has changed.
Wallaby I don't want you to take it that i am against you on this. But by partly playing devils advocate and asking important questions hopefully this will strengthen your case if you can answer them. Also i would hate for you to be spending more money trying to chase your orginal 30 quid.
Mike
Mike, you are speaking to someone who has come across all the scams. dirty tricks, you name it!
I am well aware of all the possibilities and probabilities.
As far as setting up another business goes, how do we know they haven't got more like this under another name??
I will not be spending anything chasing it up, have I got stupid written across my forehead?
Finally, if all people decided to sit on their laurels and talk themselves out of making trouble for themselves, where would we all be?
I am after the return of my stolen money, but also I believe I have a responsibility to make others aware.
I think this must be the worst scam ever invented if it is a scam!
I can make more money than this in the time it takes me to respond to this thread.
Have you tried calling them yet? If so what was the response? Have you called your credit card company? Can you make a claim from them?
Finally i have never sat on my laurels. You are talking to the person who just took there council to court for a large sum and they settled out of court. It took a year but we got there.
I am simply asking you questions that anyone else would ask. By discussing this in the open hopefully we can draw attention to your plight and find a way to help resolve this.
Mike
Mike, if you read all of the above the answers to your questions are there...........the fact is they don't answer emails, don't give contact details on their web site, the reality is they don't want to be contacted!
If you read all the feedbacks on the Watchdog, I'm sure you will get the picture. All in a timely manner, tomorrow I wil be trying to phone them, then contact my credit card company now that I have heard from Paypal.
Thanks for your input and concern. Some people have £30's they can write off, I still have to pay for mine!
Tell me then, how can you make more money in this short time?
Hi,
I read the messages above and on the watchdog and still had those questions for you.
I know some websites don't make there contact details known. It is often common practice if it is an internet only company, as you wouldn't believe the junk mail you would have to sift through if you published contact details on the online shop.
Please let us know how you get on with contacting them. If it is a husband and wife team trying in the evening might be a good idea as they may have day jobs.
I would certainly never write off 30 quid without trying everthing to get it back. I may have exagerated on the length of time to earn 30 quid as i didn't note the length of time to respond. But as a general rule we get 75 per hour for consultancy fee's. Depending on the contract of course.
I will be checking back to see how you progress. Good luck
Mike
Mike, that's great that you can make money so easily. I am incapacitated through a careless driver and have no way of earning money, I have also had many dealings with lawyers and specialists. One thing I did learn was that they all look after themselves.
I also learnt that lawyers will play on specific words, you have to be very careful with words. I have learnt to read words with a very critical eye. The paragraph in Paypal's email which I have read with much interest is this one:
"If in the meantime you wish to take legal action against this individual
or wish to involve the police please be advised that we will cooperate
fully and can provide law enforcement with further information on Mr.
Archibald. I would advise you contact him directly and explain your
intent as this might prompt him to take the appropriate steps to resolve
matters."
The word which I have highlighted is 'can'. This is not 'may', 'will perhaps' or anything else, 'can' is a positive action. Whether they have misused this word I can't be sure, but if not it leads me to believe they have information on them.
I am all too aware of how words are used to make people believe they have heard what they want to hear. I have encountered it so many times, I must be one of the most sceptical people around! Of course you will not be aware of my encounters, but I thank you for trying to make me aware of the pitfalls anyway.
I see they have another feedback, it's a shame the details of when purchases were made weren't given. I don't deny anyone to give their experiences either way, but I do feel a full picture of when the purchases were made would be more useful.
Dear All,
I am putting in my 2cents worth, like Janet I have received seeds from all over the world and I have had only 1 lot go missing from some seeds that came from a Ebay seller in the U.S., it was no dramas she resent and they arrived.
JJA seeds are glorified thieves as far as I am concerned as I know off others that have had the same happen to them, I was warned before I ordered but decided to cut the order back to $20 and if that arrived, I would have ordered the rest that I wanted.They send you a nice email letting you know that they are sending seeds and nothing, if they were legit. they would acknowledge that the seeds may have got lost, but they don't care because they never sent the seeds in the first place.They ignore all emails after this, in my opinion they use the seed sales to fund their seed expedition.What an operation you can travel all over the world on everybody else's hard earned cash,dont have to send the seeds that have been paid for,ignore all email complaints and go on your merry way:)
I ordered my seeds in August but like Janet, I am going to go and lodge at paypal as these glorified charlatans need to be stopped. I was so angry as well but what can I do as I am in Australia, I just hope that everybody reads these posts and thinks twice before losing their money.
Buyers Beware.
Annette
Woooaaa there wallaby. Who said anything about making money easily? You can't turn up and lounge about for an hour then expect to get paid for it. Every penny in business has to be justified. If you charge 10 quid for something, you must be able to show the benifit to a company e.g they spend 10 quid and get 20 quid back in extra turnover. There is of course a huge difference in take and make when it comes to bussinesses. Even big companies go bust.
Yes i agree Lawyers and specialists will look after themselves but that is only human nature. You can't expect anything else. As long as everyone is aware of that then at least we know where we all stand.
I tend to find lawyers will also play on phrases sentences and even the type of text you use if it helps there case win. Not everyone is a scholar in the English language so the misuse of words is very common place. Especially now with the use of spell/grammer checker. (which i'm lost without before anyone picks up on my errors! lol)
I did notice from the email from Paypal that they didn't say what further information they could give. This could simply be bank details or transaction history details. For instance if they can show that they do 100 transactions using paypal and only 1% go bad, then its going to look good for them. If on the other hand 99% go bad then you will have a case.
It would be a good idea to have a scoring method or a form to fill in on the feed back section, so that companies that are good but let people down on simple things like speed of delivery etc are noted.
I am all ways sceptical of scoring especially on things like Ebay. As who would leave bad feed back? All that would happen is the other party would give you bad feedback so your score would go down.
Just looking through some feed back left on here. Wallaby has had 6 people leaving excellent remarks and she has left 3 for other people. Well done to you for leaving remarks. May i ask if you do that with every trade good or bad?
Mine read like this 3 people have left feed back for me and i have left 1 for others. Now i know i am terrible for doing the fedback bit. I have sent 9 packages in the last few days and i wonder how many people leave feed back, good or bad for me! Lol
Annette hi again. Very sensible to cut the order back to an amount you can afford to risk. i did exactly the same just recently with seedman.com it cost more placing 2 orders as the postage is about 6 dollars but rather pay more for items than lose the whole load seeds and money.
Also Annette thanks loads for the trade a while ago. Only yesterday i was sorting out my little babies i have growing under lights. Thanks to you.
Hopefully by now Janet has tried phoning them and calling her credit card company to see what happens.
If she gets anywhere with them would you like me to try and take up your case Annette? It will cost me less to call them from here.
Let me know.
Mike
Had a little time to go through each page on jja seeds website.
i found these bits.
Address "Jim & Jenny Archibald, 'Bryn Collen', Ffostrasol, Llandysul, SA44 5SB, Wales, UK"
"If you have a problem with an order or with this site, use the 'Contact JJAseeds' form accessible at the bottom right-hand corner of the 'Checkout' page (click on the 'Checkout' button below the banner). "
They do accept payment in english pounds as well as dollars. But not euro's at present.
"Any mistakes or problems will be our fault. We have no office-employees to blame. You can contact us at Click Here"
This does not show the send address but i believe it to be held on the webhosting site, i think this might be PickaCart.com. This may mean that they won't recieve any mail unless the look for it on there site.
"There may be a delay of some weeks before you receive your order. While we are ready to send out orders from this list by return, most
come in during the first few weeks after we send out a list. If you feel your order is too long in arriving, check with your bank to find
out if your cheque has been cashed : we do not pay in cheques until orders have been despatched. If it has been cashed, let us know
immediately. One or two items are lost or delayed each year. In such an unlikely event, you will find us totally sympathetic. We are
glad to say such problems are very rare. Postal services are, on the whole, very reliable."
I know thats not much help also the news section hasn't been updated since they went away in june. Did they die or get lost some where in the hillside of a far away land????
Mike
Mike, the point is this is not about how you can make money, it is how these people are making money simply by accepting internet orders, acknowlegement seems to be no problem with them. The work for them is setting up the listings, then everyone else has the work to do of searching those lists, not at their bequest but at our own desire. Money can come pouring in many small to larger amounts wihtout any extra work on their part, other than a short email of acknowledgement.
That is the strange part, the acknowledgement seems to be very good customer service, so why then can they not follow it through? They have received a written complaint from one of the DG members who left feedback with no acknowledgement, I am sure they open their mail.
I have just phoned them, and they so sound to be elderly people. They also sound to be genuine. They asked 'get around' questions, such as 'where am I', 'was it a large order', 'was the order confirmed'.
I was prepared with all the details, the order number which they should have. Their excuse was that they have been busy with orders, but the internet business was perhaps not getting the attention. That is strange isn't it, as they are able to acknowledge orders. I also wonder where their other business is coming from, do they have a catalogue advertised elsewhere? They do not advertise a catalogue on their web site.
I told them that I had made the complaint with Paypal and as they should have heard from Paypal by now I would have expected to hear from them, but had not. It was a 'yes', clear the throat response.
He said he would get the order out soon, I asked if it would be within the next week, I think I got a mutter but he did say he would put in an extra packet of seeds.
I may have scared him enough to decide to send me the seeds, hey he might even be suffering from alzheimers, but somehow he is able to deal with acknowledgements. My impression was that he was able to ask pertinent questions, his mind seemed to me to be sharp.
I did mention to him that their reputation is going downhill fast on the internet, and that their contact details were very difficult to find. He said they didn't have their phone number on the web site because people like to phone them from afar and spend half an hour talking. Well that does sound like a good excuse, but how many businesses do not provide a contact phone number, and ignore emails? That is excluding any problematic orders entirely, and if they also do not answer a letter then they are either wrapping themselves in cotton wool or are fraudulent. I lean towards the fraudulent, no business who are respectable will wrap themselves in cotton wool to that extent, or how can they do business??
I will keep you updated!
Mike I just read your last post, well done for finding that! It does not however sit well with what is happening.
I had thought about mentioning Annette's case to them, but it was enough at the time to ask about mine, I did however mention there are people from all over the world complaining. I also think they would not entertain talking to anyone else about a customer they have nothing to do with. When he mentioned they had been a bit slow getting out the orders lately as it was busy, I told him these were months or a year ago. The mention of someone writing to them and being ignored went down like a stone too. Remember these negative feedbacks could be the tip of the iceberg, not everyone belongs to DG, even then not everyone leaves feedback.
I thought I would mention that I tried the 'contact' form they provided, more than once on different occasions (just in case it was a temporary problem) and it didn't work!
The currency converter does now show a form and address for those wishing to pay by cheque, when I tried it originally it showed nothing. I tried more than once too, I spent a long time trying to find the information and it wasn't accessible. I wonder if they have re-activated these since I contacted them with threats of police action and a Paypal complaint.
This message was edited Dec 13, 2006 12:25 PM
Have you ever tried contacting and speaking to a real person from say Amazon.co.uk?
i'd take a beat you can't find a phone number for them in a hurry! lol
Honestly not printing your contact details online is normal practice. Especially if everyone phones for advice, i suffer from this daily. We have to employ people to answer the phone from people asking about things that i have no interest in. I can't imagine how many stupid calls they would get.
Most of there business is done with specialists and not with the public.
Atleast you have now had the answer you wanted and no longer need to make false claims.
So now we all know old couple running an internet business! busy! Sounds like they just have problems rather than are dodgy.
I doubt my granny could run an internet shop either but she loves her garden! lol
Now time will tell.
Mike
By the way they send out paper plant lists a few times a year. As shown on there web site.
The police.... oh do behave! lol
Mike, quote "no longer need to make false claims."
Steady on there, none of these claims are false. They are absolute genuine claims, who are you now trying to insult?
Yes folks, it is not my style to be rude to anyone but this man has been the rudest I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. To the point of his posts needing to be removed from DG.
Last post quote "The police.... oh do behave! lol"
I rest my case.
Wallaby,
I apologise if i have caused you any upset. I merely intended helping you undertsand.
It is not my intention to be rude hence the use of "lol" after any fun comments.
I will leave your case with you and wish you luck in recovering any funds.
Mike
I'm surprised to read about this I've not had problem with JJA seeds before either, I know they don't post out their seeds quickly as they travel a lot.
I hope it gets resolved soon.
Hey and lets remember we can't see facial expressions here :-) in my case that's always a good thing, I don't want to be charged for all your monitors cracking *G*. This is a good forum with great people.
As someone who runs a business on the internet, and I don't just mean I have an eBay account, I have to say that there are times when things aren't quite so cut and dried as actual "high street" shopping. While I entirely disagree with any company that makes false claims there are good reasons to keep things like phone numbers off websites.
Like I say I wish you all the best in this.
I agree. Thanks for the input baa. Good to have another view on this.
Wallaby,
I really feel sorry for what happened to you with this seed-company!
In trying to help I have send them the following e-mail :
'Dear Sir ,
Your seed-offers are enchanting and I would be interested to place some orders if it was not of some serious warnings I got from some members of Dave's Garden that had really bad experiences with your services.
They are righteously upset in not receiving any seeds, lost their hard-earned money, not getting any reply from you on their e-mails in an attempt to straighten up things.
As Dave's Garden is a web-site with many thousands of truly interested garden- and plant-lovers all over the world these events can cause a wide-spread mistrust about your company.
I suggest that further damage to your reputation can by prevented by setting things straight promptly.'
If I get any reponse I'll surely let you know!
Being in the US and not part of the UK-Oz-Canada, seeing only one positive rating from the US tells me not to shop this overseas vendor at this time. Those in the UK stand a better chance of bringing legal action.......
Robert.
Thank you bonitin for your efforts. It is much appreciated.
Thank you also raydio for your honest input.
What I really would like people to see here is a pattern of,
1) Emails can be seen by these people, they DO respond with a polite email and state they will send the seeds.
2) If they email to say they will send the seeds the next week, then can anyone tell me why this is any different to receiving orders in any other way? If they state they will send it 'next week' how difficult can that be?
3) Mike says their business is mainly with specialists and not with the public. That is in Mikes view, some people might consider such as myself leaning towards specialism. Does this mean they prefer to deal with specialist growers and not the public? This is of course only Mike's view, I would never assume I know this for a fact, and if it happened to be fact then they have no right dealing with the 'public' if they are not going to honour their orders. Mike is making more scenarios here than he has accused me of making.
4) Mike's suggestion that they are just old people having trouble running an internet business is purely insulting to the elderly. They have been in business and know what they are doing, they cannot in any way be likened to someone's granny. To organise themselves on plant hunting trips must take a great deal of planning. If they cannot apply this planning to dealing with sales then they should not be doing it at others expense.
5) Consider the case if I had paid by cheque. I write to them and get no reply. I bet they open their mail and take the cheques in the first place! Let's not be blind to this. If I had not got their phone number on Paypal where would I be? I assert here that a phone number should be available to all. Or should we all be on the side of imcompetency and complacency? Place the shoe on the other foot.
I agree fully with your standpoint, Wallaby!
Old age is no excuse for unethical practices, and it would indeed be an insult to elderly people, unless they suffer from some kind of dementia . My father is 84 and I have not noticed any decline in his ethical awareness, on the contrary.
This is the message I got until now, but that seems to be an automatic answer, so I'll wait for a real reply.
Visit: http://JJAseeds.com/
We will respond to your message as soon as possible.
Contact Form by PickaCart.
Advert: For shopping cart information visit....
http://www.pickacart.com/
Dave.... Can we have your phone number??? It seems that some people think its illegal to not put it on the website! Lol (by the way thats a joke for those not able to work it out. hehe)
Bontin i agree i would never say that "because someone is old they are un-ethical". Just maybe these people are not the best at running internet shopping sites. there is of course examples of people over retirement age being able to i'm sure.
The notion that i'm saying old people are unable to be ethical is just idiotic! And i'm really hoping no one is saying that im thinking that.
To answer Wallaby again.. and as Baa mentioned above. Things are not allways clear cut when running internet businesses. Maybe Wallaby you could show us where you experience lies in this area?
I am certain that that they are a really terrible business wether they are crooks or not and i can not and would never defend that irresponsible / unethical attitude.
And i urge everyone to try and get there money back, and noone to risk money they can't afford to loose by placing internet orders.
mike-freck,
I don't know if you have read the other negative qualifications they got from other members, (see the link Wallaby gives in the introduction of this thread) they look very similar to Wallaby's experience, and that can point towards a systematic irresponsible and unethical trading.
Mistakes can always happen, but as they refuse systematically to respond to the repeated e-mails of their abused clients, proves that there is more at hand than just some 'clumsy' Internet-running business.
I quote here what Wallaby said before and what sounds very plausible to me, seen the other negative qualifications of others. :
'What I really would like people to see here is a pattern of,
1) Emails can be seen by these people, they DO respond with a polite email and state they will send the seeds.
2) If they email to say they will send the seeds the next week, then can anyone tell me why this is any different to receiving orders in any other way? If they state they will send it 'next week' how difficult can that be? '
Ditto, bonitin.
How hard is to send a "Your seeds have shipped" email? If you're away from an ISP and/or have no laptop, searching for more seeds to not ship, is it impossible find someone to keep up with correspondence?
I noticed the "Latest News" column carries us right up to June and July. They sure seem busy somewhere.....
Robert.