Ailanthus

I didn't think we had these trees in my area but I found one in someones yard today. And worst of all, it's only about a mile from me. I thought for a long time it was sumac, but I noticed the seeds today and realized what it was. These are elderly people that otherwise keep an immaculate yard. I can't imagine why they would plant it. Ugghhh, that's just what I need is something else to have to watch for.

I suppose they think it's a hardy novelty, unfortunately. Sentimental attachment? Maybe they are from Brooklyn. I've noticed the seeds this fall, other times I have a hard time telling it from sumac on a drive by. Had a long drive few weeks ago and found myself counting the tree of heaven along the highway by spotting seeds. Made myself switch to counting the sycamores.
Best case- you might get in conversation, they admit they don't like it, and you offer to take it down for them?

They have lived there for many many years. Unfortunately I never speak to them. I ride my bike down there sometimes but I never see them outside. I'm assuming they probably ordered it from the back of a magazine, kinda like those advertisements for the "Royal Empress Tree". Doesn't that just sound prestigious. LOL

yeah!! ooh la la. along with the magic mosquito repellant plant and the tomato-potato plant. well, if we can get the ailanthus out of our county parks, we'll head down there and take them on

Good luck, man: ailanthus is taking over the world up here in western NC. You see it in parklands, roadsides, choking drainage ditches, and unfortunately as an intentional landscape plant. Keep a close eye out for seedlings: they're easy to pull out when small, but as the tree gets bigger you have big problems. Girdling or cutting it down just prompts lots of root suckering. You have my sympathy: we have two of the beasts at our property entrance (thanks to a neighbor's intentional plantings), and I've been trying to kill them all year. Maybe next year I'll succeed...

I have read that Ailanthus leaves are allelopathic to pine seedlings. If that's true, it could mean big problems for the southeast coastal plains.

In my limited experience, both ailanthus leaves and roots are allelopathic to darn near everything: every one of the several plantings I've tried within their root zone has died slowly and horribly, despite all efforts to keep them going. Can you tell that I just hate this tree?? If you read, as I have, articles documenting how many thousands of seeds each tree produces, and that plants as small as one foot tall can set seed, you just want to scream at people like our neighbor who has two dozen huge, prospering ailanthus defining his property line.

Editied to add that I have found one plant not bothered by ailanthus: poison oak. Its vines happily grow right up the trees, and neither seems bothered by the symbiosis. Isn't that special?

This message was edited Dec 10, 2006 1:12 AM

Those trees are also taking over the freeways here in parts of So. Cal. I hate the smell of them when you crush the stems.

I'm starting to think that in fifty years there won't be any distinguishable difference between the landscape of the eastern U.S. and China.

Let's face it, JD; at certain times of the year, they smell pretty bad even without crushing leaves. One article called them the "stink tree:" works for me, on several levels! And I agree with you, eguy; one day our landscape will look like China, darn it, with bits of Japan and Europe thrown in for kicks. What a shame...

Funny reading all of this...I had no idea they were so numerous on the East Coast. I thought Cal. was the only state cursed with them !

It's everywhere along Interstate 95 between VA and NY, probably further, too. I used to think it was sumac, because there's a lot of that, too. This fall I saw mile after mile of Euonymus alata along 95 between Philly and D.C.

They're not really bad along the gulf coast yet. But if they are taking over the eastern seaboard, it will only be a matter of time before they do the same here. I wonder if they are allelopathic to Chinese Tallow?

Good luck with that thought; they seem to be allelopathic only to everything you do want around. Other nasties, like the poison oak, do fine with it. A DOT crew came down the road here yesterday clearing the brush/small trees in the drainage ditches. While I applaud the thought and effort involved, since the ditches were well and truly clogged with vegetation, cutting down all those 5 - 6' ailanthus will set up monstrous root suckering for next year. The drama never ends...

Can't you use your weed wrench on those little stumps or are they too low to the ground to get a grip? Maybe you could at least take them down another notch to expose a fresh surface and then paint them with a chemical? You're right, they're going to come back to haunt you ten-fold given how they came in and cleared your drainage ditches.

Nothing left to grind, Equil; a second crew came behind the cutters and ground everything down to ground level. I'm pretty bummed about it, but at least the stuff in the drainage ditches isn't on our property; I'm still trying to figure out how to finish killing off those two (much bigger) beasts next year. Mind you, I am impressed that they did the job, and quite efficiently; just not a good idea to do that with ailanthus.

On a note unrelated to the subject at hand, we got another, worse, surprise, when the crew was finished. With all the brush and junk vegetation cleared from the roadside around our property, we discovered that one of the huge ancient oaks has more than half of its roots exposed and is holding onto its spot at the edge of the drop-off by faith alone, it seems. With all the ice storms we get in winter, it's highly likely to come down: and if it does, it will hit either the power lines for the neighborhood and the road, or the propane tank, or the house. Not good. Having a tree like that taken down will no doubt cost a fortune, especially since it's rather high-risk for the climber - not to mention that I purely hate to take down a tree that old and stately. Don't see that we have a choice, however; when you look at it, you can't understand how it's holding in place.

Spartacusaby, I know how you feel. They have the state inmates out there near my house right now clearing privet (I'm very surprised), but by mid summer it will waist high again. At least they are leaving the longleaf pine saplings, so maybe they will have a fighting chance.

A work crew that's discriminating about what it pulls? I'm impressed! Hopefully the longleaf pines will be able to set some good roots before the privet comes back in force. Really sad to see how quickly the invasives take over on roadsides and disturbed areas, isn't it? We see that all the time here, as what starts as a few ailanthus become a stand of solid ailanthus. First they kill off the wildflowers and shrubs, then the understory trees, eventually they take on the taller trees. It's really depressing...

E-guy and Spartacusbaby, do you think that whoever is directing these crews might be appreciative of a pat on the back for doing something useful AND some information on how to get good long-term results (especially for the Ailanthus problem)?

I had the same thought, notgrn, but in this case they probably couldn't apply any of the techniques needed to effectively kill ailanthus. The motivation for the project was the forecast for more than usual snow or (mainly) ice storms in the area this winter; clear the roadside vegetation and overhanging tree branches so they won't come down in the road. All I've managed to learn about ailanthus suggests that only heavy-duty herbicides, applied with a method like hack & squirt at a time of year when it will reach the roots, are likely to be effective against the creature. Unfortunately, at this season, applying the herbicides - even if they were willing and able to do so - probably would have little or no effect since the plants are pretty dormant. That said, we're currently having warmer days, and I swear I can hear the beasts laboring to create root suckers everywhere...

No, they won't have to labor at all. Now that those nice root systems are free of all that vegetation above ground, they can focus all their energies on creating 10 where once there was 1. Wonderful adaptive trait isn't it.

Good point, Equil: no labor involved. And yeah, what a swell adaptive trait if they were in China where they belong....

Throw some sweetgum seed over there and see if that will give them some competition. There are a few natives that compete well with invasive trees. Red maple seems to be able to outgrow and outseed them sometimes. I have also noted a few cases where native wax myrtle has outgrown ligustrum and smothered it out. It's mostly our slower growing shade intolerant trees that don't stand a chance.

Fascinating idea, eguy, and exciting to know that some natives can actually outcompete the invasives. The problem with this situation is that there is supposed to be NOTHING growing in the drainage ditches; this of course is a joke in a temperate rain forest climate. If I thought any of your suggestions would smother the ailanthus, I'd go for it anyway. Do you happen to know if the ligustrum has allelopathic properties? That's what makes ailanthus such a beast, in that it kills off its competitors before they have a chance to establish (and sometimes even does in established neighbors).

I don't think so. It's an Asian plant though. It's native range includes China and so does Ailanthus' native range so perhaps they co-evolved? Just as there are literally hundreds of NA native plants that are capable of not only surviving but thriving in the presence of juglans produced by Black Walnut trees, so may be the case with those two plants that are natives to the same regions.

Ligustrum is not allelopathic that I know of. I have found many native seedlings growing under it, it's just a matter of being crowded out and not geting any light. Some trees are successful at getting through it, like the red maple I mentioned, however they are usually crooked because they have to bend every which a way to try to reach some light.

I think I have one of these growing in a bed under my deck. I am kicking myself because I first noticed it last Spring; it was no more than 6 or 8 inches high at the time and had fern-like leaves. Since we began renovating our neglected property and amending the hardpacked clay soil, I've had a few gems pop up (old tulips & daffodils) so when I saw this little mystery plant, I decided to let it do its thing until I could identify it. I would post a picture of it here for you, but it hasn't leafed out yet, so I'm not sure that it would do any good.

One year later, it's over a foot tall and I now think that I just id'd it as Ailanthus altissima. Obviously, it has to go, but from what I've been reading online it looks like it might be a bear to get rid off. Luckily, it's still small so we *should* be able to dig up the roots and trash it... I didn't notice any seedheads on it last year, but now I'm fretting that I may have inadvertently created a monster problem for the neighborhood.

I've always assumed that I was looking at Sumac along the roadsides here, but perhaps it is Ailanthus...

Edited to add: Any tips you can throw at me with regard to removing it *completely* would be delightful...

This message was edited Apr 8, 2007 10:02 AM

Get a small disposable bowl and mix mineral oil and Brush-B-Gone 50/50. With a small paint brush, apply the mixture to the entire stem. I would wait until it's actively growing though. Supposedly this method doesn't trigger suckering.

(Wear some latex gloves while doing this)

wrightie, how much land are you dealing with?

As far as the Tree of Heaven, if it is that small it probably is best to dig it up but a weed wrench would work well also-
http://www.canonbal.org/weed.html
I have the light and we also have a medium

Hi Equil' - We're talking very small urban backyard and only one small tree, but I had never even heard of this weed wrench before, so thanks for the link. That looks like it would make for a good 'community tool' to share with the neighbors.

Thanks, Escambia. Methinks that I'll attempt a one-two punch with both physical removal as well as painting, as necessary...

My neighbor borrows mine all the time. Matter of fact, it's still over there right now.

We use them at the Forest Preserve all the time. They really are a great tool if you're dealing with many on a regular basis but not for one plant.

Does anyone happen to have recommendations for killing Ailanthus roots in a vegetable garden? I'm worried about poisoning near veggies we plan to eat. We tried digging up the roots, but they seem to go on forever and unfortunately we were breaking them in the process (*SIGH*).

We bought this house 2 years ago. There was a giant Ailanthus growing in the backyard (finally had enough money to get it removed this year), so of course they're all over the place. Seeing how enormous some of these roots are, I suspect they were getting partially pulled up and encouraged for years before we moved in.

There's also a forest of them (might well be only one big root, but it could be more) in an Iris bed. Would using some of the regular recommendations ala Brush-be-Gone be safe enough around the Irises?

Life's happy, there was also sod laid over what was most likely solid bindweed and other weeds. It took a while to notice this. Bombing the yard would probably get rid of everything BUT the Ailanthus and bindweed. I'm pretty much stuck beating my head against the wall now.

I'm not a poisoner, I always hand-weed. These are 2 plants that could drive me there, but hopefully not at the expense of the gardens. Recommendations of ANY type would be very welcome.

My sympathies, madamecp; I've been fighting this battle for years. We have ailanthus roots all through a large part of the area I'm trying to landscape, and the sprouts appear everywhere, usually within a few inches of a desirable plant. I'm not a poisoner, either, but definitely make an exception for ailanthus because nothing else works. Since the roots are alleopathic and kill off the desirable plants, I can't just ignore it or it will simply take over our world.

Another member recently told me that BrushBGone has long-term soil persistence, so this might not be the best choice in a bed of ornamentals or veggies. I've been using the poison ivy/brush form of Roundup, applied by wearing a rubber glove, dipping a sponge in the herbicide and coating the entire sprout with it. They are easier/quicker to kill when very small, so I walk the garden every other day with sponge and tumbler in hand. I'm afraid it's an endless battle: as long as the roots are there, the sprouts will continue to appear and you just need to go after them one at a time.

If others have better ideas, I'll be lurking and hoping to hear of a better plan. Good luck!

Thanks, spartacusaby.

Does anyone happen to know the range (rough area size) of soil persistence for BrushBGone (and Roundup, if applicable)? Also, would BrushBGone be better than Roundup when persistence doesn't matter (eg one growing in the middle of a stone walkway)? I'm going to try poisoning some of the other ones around the yard. I would like to test poison one in a cat mint patch (never have a shortage of cat mint, barring cataclysmic events) to see what the impact on other plants would be, but the bees are swarming the cat mint and obviously the neighborhood cats like it as well. Too many complications...

I'm leaving this big hole in my veggie garden with the big roots exposed, until I decide what I want to risk putting on them. I rented my previous house and there was an Ailanthus problem there too (not sure there are any houses in Denver that don't have the problem. Urban warfare device, I've known people who at some point let them grow to retaliate against their landlords... of course now I would tell them that's bad for the neighborhood). My landlord's maintenance person told me to pour Chlorox on the roots to kill them (likely a poor person's cheap household version of herbicide). I tried to think over every possibility, eg coating the roots in Chlorox and wrapping them in plastic, but somehow I didn't quite feel comfy doing that near veggies. ;)

I have a friend here who sometimes waits for them to develop stumps, then drills a hole all the way down through the stump and shoots gasoline into it. I think he's going to try Chlorox next since that'd at least be safer than gas. Maybe I should compile a book of "Creative Urban Ailanthus Management" or "Creative Ways to Blow Yourself Up With Your Ailanthus".

Doesn't sound like a good idea to use Clorox anywhere in your veggie bed, to be honest. And as for the gasoline, I'll pass: sounds like an attempt at a Darwin Award! I can tell you from my experience that the BrushBGone seems much more effective with ailanthus than the Roundup. I'm still using BrushBGone in my attempts to kill the full-size female tree that "graces" our driveway entrance, but have switched to Roundup in the beds I'm trying to landscape. I'd like to shoot the big female to tree heaven with a cannon, but that too would be an attempt at a Darwin Award....

I believe I read somewhere that Roundup only hangs around the soil for a max. of 21 days, but I am not an expert at herbicides; hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in on that question.

Oh this tree is the bane of my existance! I didn't realize what I had 'til a couple of years
ago. The mother tree just unloaded seeds every year for the first 6-7 yrs I was here. I
cut it down and bagged the seeds carefully & through them in the trash. But of course now
I'm pulling her babies from the root system. And they are all over the property. I pull or
mow over all the seedlings I can get at but a lot are growing in the tree line between
fields. I'll try BrushBGone next year I suppose.

I was amazed to see these nasty imperialists working on a major invasion of Rome
Italy when I was on vacation there a couple months ago.

Hey, Tammy! Off topic, have you seen sallyg's Rome thread on the mid-atlantic forum? Considering that you were just there, I'm sure that you would have lots to add.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/790515/

Good luck with your own personal war on terra! This tree tried to pop up again last Spring, but I killed it ... well, maybe.

This message was edited Nov 18, 2007 4:52 PM

My sympathies, Tammy, as a fellow struggler; ailanthus is really a beast. Even the baby root suckers here are hard to kill with just RoundUp; BrushBGone is by far more effective if the offending sprouts aren't near to desirable plants. I've gotten very adept at applying BrushBGone with a sponge, but its soil persistence can be problematic for plants close by.

I just pull them out. They are growing about 15'-20' from mom in a hillside
garden, amongst the plants I put there. I seem to be able to pull them w/o
too much of a problem. Or do you think I'm fooling myself here & that they'll
just keep coming back? I pull or mow over them. I've not used any herbicides
yet. I WILL be trying the hack & soak the trunk approach on the bigger trees
in the tree line this next growing season.

Tam

Hand pulling works perfectly fine on Ailanthus seedlings. You're not fooling yourself, the handpulled seedlings won't be back but the parents plants in the tree line will provide you with a never ending supply of seedlings to pull unless they are dealt with. What chemical will you use to hack and squirt?

I like this poster that was created by The Alien Plant Working Group-
http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/aial1.htm