NOT 'Limona' and some rant.

I don't know what this is, I just know it isn't what the tag says. And I am not happy about this. I paid six dollars more for this new Langeveld introduction than they ask for all their other amaryllis bulbs, including such goodies as 'Lima', 'Royal Velvet', 'Ruby Meyer' and so on.

I fault Langeveld for the error, because the bulbs are right out in front where no one could easily switch tags (if they wanted the bulb for the lower price). Even if that had happened, I ended up with a bulb that the store doesn't have under another name. It doesn't resemble any of the other bulbs they offer, either.

And I about fed up with Langeveld and possibly my local retailer. I had bad experience with a purchase of callas last spring with 3 out of four being something other than what they were supposed to be. And now this!

I don't hate this one, but it isn't saying much to me. "Delicately colored" is one thing, but this.......I just don't know.

What do you think? Any ideas as to what it might be? It seems to be one of the South African hybrids because it started right up after being potted.

I already called them about the bulb not being 'Limona'. I haven't decided whether to return it or get a partial refund.

Can I learn to love this one? Dunno.

Not too much color there but it looks nice..I never did like white flowers and still don't but then I realized how they make the colored ones look more enhanced. I'll bet if you have it next to some pink flowers it will look alot nicer. It almost reminds me of easter lillies.

better~

I see what you're saying. I do like pure white flowers and the large Hippi hybrids are a fave, though I haven't had one in a while. I think it might grow on me.

This one begins mostly green but as it matures, it lightens to (what color is that?) sort of creamy-green with the salmony overlay.

One nifty quality is the pink-tipped style.

All three blooms are just about open now.

Robert.

I hear you... I had terrible experiences last year with mis-named bulbs. Most of them were bought in netted bags with the variety and photo clearly shown, and often turned out to be something totally different. I've bought 'Picotee' again this year - surely one of these times it will be right! I've also bought 'Papilio' several times but have yet to see the real thing.

It's quite disheartening. I don't not like any of the bulbs, but when you choose and pay for a particular variety I think you should be able to expect it to be true to name.

I've already bought about 20 new bulbs this season - time will tell what I actually have...

I think you've hit the nail, kniph. I paid a premium price for another bulb that I don't know what it is and am having to learn to appreciate.

My local shop does a great business, but may only sell one case each of ten (or less this year) different hybrids. I think that the company may have oversold 'Limona' and chose a small-volume customer to shaft. I'm not saying that's what they did, I'm saying that's what I think.

Rant, rant, rant.

I do wish you luck with yours!

Robert.

This message was edited Nov 17, 2006 4:55 PM

Robert it doesn't say a thing to me, it looks like one that didn't make the grade in the hybridising programmes. I feel convinced this is what many of them do, after all they have bulbs grown out which is costly to them so they think it's easy to rid themselves of them and make some money into the deal.

I do wonder if the retailer knows what he is getting, they could even be counterfeits. I did come across that with one company growing Alstroemerias placing a notice on their web site, it just takes a good crook to make false claims to retailers who are looking for something that is just too cheap to pass up.

Take the darned thing back and ask for your money back, I had too much of the wrong stuff even from big companies, so annoying when you have spent good money and have wasted another year, on top of having something you wouldn't look twice at.

I have decided that if I am to get the proper thing I will only deal with specialist companies, their prices are not really too steep. Consider such as Royalcolors, they should give you the bulb you buy, and you can buy three and get free postage.

jacquesamand have a US store, but not as big a range as here. They have Hipp Rosario, I tried 2 years running to get H reggae but each time I either didn't get it because they didn't get it supplied, or they had sold out. I have given up, even though they had it listed this year I didn't try again when I ordered other things.

The fact that they had it to put in the basket, not sold out, on their site annoyed me but they probably get orders in first then buy the product as a pre-ordered possibility. It was annoying, but at least they took the brunt of my annoyance rather than substitute. I still order from them because they have bulbs at good prices I know will be the correct thing. And they grow!

http://www.jacquesamand.com/

If I really wanted to spend a lot of money on Hipps now I would do it with Royalcolors, that is all they sell, and I really do want some and really do want to spend the money but I have done too much of that already!

The same applies to other specialised plants like iris, out of 3 places I got some from none were correct or even near, 2 sources were so called respectable catalogues who supply a range of all sorts. I would have been wiser to spend the money with a specialist grower.

raydio - Les Hannibal, in his excellent treatise on garden crinums, states, "One of the most elusive factors concerning identification occurs with color descriptions and the reported flower colors. Plants which have been flowered and described at Kew Gardens as having red or wine-red blossoms may be pink or wine-pink under more natural conditions. Similarly a pink may be a near white. The temperature and daylight hours at the time of flowering are quite critical. Cool nights intensify colors quite effectively." Hannibal, L.S., "Garden Crinums: An identification and checklist of Crinums found in the United States." Bulletin of the Louisiana Society for Horticultural Research, Vol. III, No. 5, 1970-1971.

One could surmise that the opposite is also true - that warm nights would wash out colors. I wonder if this also applies to Hippeastrum (Amaryllis) and other hybrids?

If anyone is interested, here's the bulletin in its entirety. You will need to rotate it to read it properly.

http://www.opuntiads.com/pdf/Les-Hannibal-Crinums.pdf

The Hippeastrum you think might be South African is probably a South American hybrid. Hippeastrum are native to the Americas, from Mexico and the Caribbean to Argentina. Amaryllis belladona is the monotypic genus which is native to South Africa. The Hippeastrum species are beginning to come up at this time of year in Argentina. I've seen them in habitat.

Marilyn



This message was edited Nov 18, 2006 9:56 AM

Marilyn~

I already got the PDF (isn't it wonderful!!!?) and saw the part about cooler night temperatures and it might well work for Hippeastrums too. I'm going to try it.

Unfortunately, I don't have a significantly cooler room at night to put them in and currently it's too cold outdoors. There is a second scape coming and if I haven't returned the bulb when it opens, I hope to be able to try the "cool nights treatment" to see if there is any difference.

Thanks.

Robert.

I've only had time to scan Mr. Hannibal's article, but I intend to read it thoroughly. Although this article is quite old, it's still one of the most well-respected treatises on the genus.

Who knows about the cooler nights? It wouldn't hurt, but don't go much below 60. The ones I saw in Argentina were growing in higher altitudes (over 4,000 feet) in November, which is equivalent to May in our hemisphere. I checked, and the temps are 60F and above at night right now in most of the places in NW Argentina I visited. Daytime temps are mid-70s to mid-90s.

Hi,

How strange that you should mention crinum and the effect of cool nights. We are having a few near frost nights, and one of my crinums is in bloom. I remember thinking, "How odd! It's almost totally white." You see, normally, there is a pink stripe down the center of the spidery petals. But these are showing very little, if any pink.

I don't know what variety these particular crinum is. They came from a small city near Brian/College Station, TX and bloom much later than my other crinums.

Also, I have a Red Peacock that bloomed a beautiful dark orange this past year. It bloomed at the same time that another Red Peacock which was the normal red. At first, I thought that the label was wrong, but I have never purchased an orange double. It could be a seedling, but I do not label my seedlings with pollen parent names and I've never had a double to produce seed pods. I do hope this dobuled one will bloom as an orange again. It is a beautiful color of dark, rich orange.

Strange.... Robert, I think that it is more likely that you have a different bulb. If these are field grown rather than grown from cuttings, do you think it is possible that it could be a seedling? The coloration does look like a seedling might look.

Just a note to the Amaryllis v's Hippeastrum point. The difference is as pointed out, but there is a breeding programme going on in Sth Africa with new hybrids of Hippeastrum, I have come across a site here selling them.

Hi,

I found a picture of the way the crinum flower normally looks.

This is the way it looks today...

Neat that someone in S. Africa is hybridizing Hippeastrum! Always good to have new plants to buy! HEHEHE However, when discussing plants it is usual to state where their habitat is rather than where they're being grown. If we went by where they were grown, we could just say that most bulbs come from Holland! LOL :>)

Thanks for pointing that up, wallaby, that slipped past me.

I was indeed referring to Hippeastrum hybrids produced in South African (from such companies as Hadeco), and was referring to them as SA hybrids as opposed to Dutch hybrids. The ones coming from SA, are just primed to go by the time we receive them here, as since the NOT-Limona started right up, I thought that even though Langeveld is a Dutch, they may deal in bulbs from SA as well. (BTW-Hadeco was started by Dutchmen.)

I knew I was taking a risk with "amaryllis" in the first post, without putting "Hippeastrum" in there. I usually capitalize the genera (Amaryllis) when referring to A. belladonna. Apologies for the confusion.

Anywho, HS and others, 'Limona' is a named hybrid and wouldn't be propagated by seed, as it would no doubt rarely come true, and would be more properly a sold as strain. I don't know of any Dutch companies doing that and have never heard of it being done. It wouldn't be done unless the cross was one that does come true from seed, and those are more than rare, if they exist at all.

I think the bulb I got was a substitution for the sake of not losing a sale, done without the buyer's (my garden center) awareness. It *could* be from human error. Couldn't say where along the process the "error" (and it could be) (possibly?) came in. I would expect a lot of buck-passing or "that's news to us" if inquiries were made, and really, such could be the case. I suppose as long as the vendor apologizes, credits the account, they can feel certain that they haven't lost a customer, no matter how often this sort of thing happens, regardless of reason.

I'm just a bit cynical as far as "the industry" is concerned, having read so many accounts of this sort of thing happening over the last year. This seems to be a horrible state of affairs for us in the US, anyway.

I'm not bitter, despite my tone, just fed up!

Now onto to something else:

HS, I posted somewhere about the pictures in V.Read's book and the variability of a hybrid pictured there, though I think I mistakenly called it 'Blossom Peacock', but the one shown isn't named, but looks like 'BP' (plate 7-3). There are two scapes in flower on the same bulb that are very unalike. Looks like two different hybrids.

Then, in plate 7-9 and 7-10, pictures are shown of 'Flaming Peacock' in flower in succeeding years and the difference is even more pronounced. One has hardly any color at all, just pure white with the finest red picotee on most of the tepals.

It seems as though the "Peacock" series is unstable and temperamental (in starting up up from a new bulb.)

I wonder if what you have going is due to something in the storage of the bulbs. Maybe a variance in temperature that affected one and not the other? Or a case of the original stock being a strain of seedlings rather than from a sole bulb? Or another substitution? It would be interesting to see if they ever sync-up in looks.....Are they both equally double?

Robert.

HS~

The color is probably poor due to the lower light of approaching winter, but the cooler temps may be affecting it as well. Maybe more by slowing down the plants processes rather than the effect of the temps on the bloom tissues.

Tropical Hibiscus do that, the size being greatly affected as well.

I really like that one *with* the stripe!

That's one of the x digweediis isn't it?

Robert.

Marilyn~

You're right about where bulbs come from. I was following an established convention when talking about Hippiastrum hybrids and it can give the wrong idea if you haven't come across it before.

Robert.

Thanks for explaining. I understood it as soon as you clarified it above. I WAS confused, and I know the conventions too!

Robert,

I just thought that maybe a bloom went to seed and accidently dropped into the field, but I would think that they would not let field grown ones go to seed. Shows you how much I know about how they grow Hippeastrum bulbs for the wholesale market.

Both Red Peacock bulbs were acquired before 2005. I started putting the year of acquisition on the bulbs in 2005. Neither of the bulbs that bloomed at simultaneous times had a year on the label. Thus, the slight question about the label. Both bulbs were outside during the recent bashes by so many hurricanes. Lots of labels were lost, misplaced, moved, etc. during tree and debree removal as well as home and roof repairs.

Anyway, I hope the orange one blooms orange again. It appeared slightly more doubled, but not much more than red peacock. Actually, it was very much a prettier shaped bloom than red peacock. If I can locate the picture, I'll post it so that others can see...

Keep in touch with me about the pink striped crinum. They are in desperate need of dividing and should do well in your zone. I agree about the length of the days. Also, the flowers of the faded one are just a bit smaller. I have no clue about the variety. I know very little about crinums.

Here ya go...

Left to right, Orange 'Red Peacock', Red Peacock and Promise:

A better and more fun view of the Orange 'Red Peacock' and a visitor...

wallaby~

Well, I'm glad you don't see what I don't see in the NOT-Limona. I thought I'd just give it a fair chance to say something......but I wanted a true clear yellow-green one and that's not it. And mostly it was an impulse, I wasn't shopping for a yellow-green one! There are already some on the market that are as good or better. Maybe the "NEW" designation pulled me in. I feel so used. LOL.

As I was saying along the way here, I am just so tired of this kind of thing. And what can I do about it?

Nothing except at the local level and if enough people do likewise, there will have to be an effect industrywide, I would hope. "Come the revolution" this stuff won't fly no more.

The Hippeastrum market isn't nearly as large as it once was, I'm given to understand, so how can they afford to be so slack? By sending them all to the "Big Box Stores"? How many people would even bother if a cheap bulb is something else? Where's the respect?

It's lucky I found out without having "wasted another year" as you say. Just not quick enough to take it back for an exchange.

I am definitely changing my shopping style.

Robert.

HS~

Cute lil frog, there.

Those are really different! Did you pick those up shopping? Looks like a mix-up in the bins or something. That's just too different to be the same thing.

I've seen different bulbs of the same hybrid differ from one to another enough to make me think they are different clones. I have two 'Dancing Queen's that seem somewhat different and I'm going to see if the difference is cultural, since I had one before the other and naturally their recent care would have been different. So after I've had them a couple years, who knows.

Robert.

I will be watching Orange 'Red Peacock', that is for sure. I didn't write down where I purchased it. I started doing that in 2006. Live and learn, huh?

I love my little critters. They are always surprising me, and I don't mind having them live in my patio, porch or greenhouse (except for snakes).

This one surprised me one day. I couldn't see inside the bloom because it was on an upper shelf, so wise old me decided to try to take a picture. At the time, I had no clue he was in there... Until I put the cd in the computer and view the pictures, that is! What a surprise!!!!

Can you tell? I am trying to cheer you up! This is Vivaldi....

That *is* a cute frog! I love that color. (I really like green snakes, too.)


I'm not in a bad mood, really. :-D

Robert.

If you're not then I must be in a bad mood!

I agree, the cute frog softens you up......the orange one looks a dead ringer for Orange Sovereign, not that I was searching for an orange one...but I was searching in my favourites for this site.

http://www.wswarmenhoven.com/products/Amaryllis_Orange_Souvereign.asp

Wow! Wallaby!

You have provided several good links. Thank you!

Yes, it is the color of Orange Sovereign, but is that one double?

It looks to be semi-double to me, is it?

The picture is mis-leading, maybe the ruffly look of the tepals, but Orange Sovereign is a single.

I've been looking thru my jpgs and I can find anything onhand, but it does look familiar, that orange double.

I only get in a bad mood when I think about all the trouble one seems to have to go through getting the right bulb, and I'm just gonna put that on a back burner for now.

Robert.

It's about as double as they come, I think.

Here is a picture of one of the blooms just opening:

And here is another picture of one of the blooms:

And another...

If anyone can identify it as something other than Red Peacock, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

Oh yes yours is definitely a double. I was talking about the OS @ warmenhoven.

It's not OS, but I did buy a generic Orange one from Home Depot this fall because I liked this orange double color so much. I'm not usually into Orange, but as you can see by viewing just a few of many, many pictures, I was and am fascinated by this one.

It's very pretty, and even more beautiful than Red Peacock, in my humble opinion...

Now, if I just knew the history behind it?

Me too, the OS@warmenhoven. The shape matches though! That warmenhoven sounds like a warm home doesn't it? Just a thought!

The crinum with stripes did remind me of one I had seen, and as I was sifting through my faves to delete many I came across the site I thought I had seen it on, Marcelle's crinums.

It does look very much like C. sanderianum, which is dubiously named.

http://crinum.iconx.com/html/crinum-species/crinum-sanderianum.html

I put them side by side, all seems to match bar some petals look broader but some don't.

ooooh, sanderianummmmmmmmmmmm

C. digweedii is close but somehow it doesn't quite fit to my eye, the petals seem to overlap at the base and the styles 'look' to be a different colour

http://crinum.iconx.com/html/crinum-species/crinum-digweedii.html

My face is red! I promised Dr. Shaw that I would send him one of these, so that he could put them side by side, but I haven't gotten around to shipping them. I drive through Conroe, TX to get to my sister's ranch, but simply haven't made the trip is YEARS.

It's very possible that this is one of Marcelle's creations or findings. Wheelock, TX (the ranch) is not that far from there.

Yes, I have been to Marcelle's site and conversed with Dr. Shaw via email about this one.