What's the right way to use fall leaves in the garden?

Hi there,

I am totally confused. I want to mulch my garden with the leaves from the yard, but I found that whole leaves piled high can kill plants in the spring. So I am thinking of collecting all the leaves and having them chopped (with one of them blower/chopper type of portable things). Sounds simple enough. But here's the confusion:

Can I dump the chopped leaves directly onto the garden?

Or, should I cut down the browned plants *first* and then mulch with chopped leaves?

Or, should tree bark mulch be put down first and *then* chopped leaves?

Which should be the bottom layer? Browned plant stalks? Tree bark mulch? or chopped leaves?

Please help!!! I really want to start "recycling" everything, but can't get it all straight.

I make a compost pile and let it compost over winter and then use it on the plants in the spring. You can do the same thing by placing it as leaf on the garden area and it will slowly decompose. I am german and never want to wait therefore I compost.

Here's how I do it with success: Whatever is in contact with soil breaks down fastest here -- so don't put the Tree bark mulch next to the soil. I pay for it and want it to last as long as possible.

Leaves chop way smallest if they are sprinkled with water first. Not so much water they get your blade or machinery clogged, though. It a bit of a tradeoff. I run a lawnmower with a bag over them. If there is enough moisture, I get teeny tiny leaf flecks that are ready to put on the flower beds as-is. Any flecks that don't make it in the bag sniggle down between the grass blades quite nicely.

Personally, I do stalks first & chopped leaves because they cover all the odd lumps and bumps and water it all if there is no rain so they don't blow away. In February, I visit the horses and get some manure.

Bark Mulch is a May project because it can keep the soil so cool that it doesn't warm up fast enough. I use it to top dress, but that's because I pay for bark mulch.

Suzy

My bark mulch has generally disappeares by fall.

I use a hand-held blower/vacuum as you describe, Blue Ash. I find with just the opposite of what Illoquin finds with a lawn mower. The drier the leaves, the smaller they chop with my hand held vacuum. If they're tough ones (oak) I might shred twice. After shredding the leaves then dump them on the bed, spread, and spray immediately with water to hold in place. I don't cover the perennials, I spread the leaves around them, so they can still get sunshine. Sometimes I throw cut off annuals on top of that to help hold the leaves in place. In my front bed I mulched with leaves and grass clippings and left the impatiens roots in the soil, cut off about 4 in. above the soil line. They help hold my new leaf mulch in place in the winds, and will rot a lot where they are. In some areas I dig a trowel full of dirt from the border and sprinkle on top of the leaves to help hold down. All my beds will be mulched with leaves; Only the front bed got grass clippings, too. Whatever I have on hand at the moment I throw on top of the beds. I add coffee grounds as I get them. In spring whatever is left of the tossed-around old annuals will end up in the compost bin.

There's no right - or- wrong here. Just don't bury your perennials totally in mounds of mulch. Let them get air and light. It doesn't really matter what order it's in. Lots of grass clippings and other greens might get stinky and gross unless you top off with browns or mix them well. You can use any organic matter and it will improve the soil. Some till it into the soil, and that subject is always controversial here. It's just too much work for me and I don't do it, but since I've been doing this in the past few years I do see an improvement in my clay soil.

In spring my leaf mulch will still mostly be there. I plant flowers and tiny seedlings right through it. Some mulch will be mixed into the soil with the many, many new plantings. I will top dress with whatever compost I have in my bin. When finally through planting, a new layer of bark mulch goes down.

I also hoard some leaves for composting next summer. I use three large garbage cans , 32 gal. each. They can hold a lot of leaves if they're shredded. If I still have leaves I'll put those in large contractor's bags (42 gallon). I don't want to waste any leaves because I always need them for summer composting.

Karen

Depending on the situation, I either chop up the garden stalks and such or remove them to another pile. I find that a mower run in reverse over a windrow or pile of leaves chops them up in small fragments. I prefer dry mowing. I like to then spread the mulched leaves over the gardens, Some of them are raised beds and I like to till them in along with some well rotted manure [depending on next years crop in that bed].

On my large garden I fall plow it and then scatter mulched leaves on it. The roughness of that garden holds the small pieces in place [from the wind].

I am so surprised that you 2 both get better results with dry mowing! For years and years, one of my anniversary presents was triple mowed leaves from dh. As we both got older, the trees got bigger, the job was too much for him and he now brings them to me I could mow and mow and mow and they still spit out full size! It wasn't until I hit on the dampening method about 4 years ago that I got the teeny pieces I was trying for.

I think we have a mulching blade on that mower, too, so that wouldn't account for the difference in our results. These are mostly pin oak leaves, and they are really tough -- do you think that would have anything to do with it? I will say they do vacuum up better when I go backwards, too. It's sort of like vacuuming a rug -- only more fun, and you get a better product than just a bunch of dust lol!

I also concur that it's important to save some back for spring and summer compost. Luckily that is no problem here!

Suzy

Illoquin........I have a mulching mower with a bag too. I mulched several large piles of leaves this past week. I spread the piles out a bit then start at the edges of the piles and work my way through. I ended up with small piles of tiny bits. I mulch with the bag off the mower. When the bag is on lthe mower it barely chops the leaves at all. I put the chopped leaves directly on a couple of my flower beds.

early_bloomer

kqcrna, that was a very helpful explanation for me. Thank you.

This has been a very informed discussion. I learned a lot. I actually read a few suggestions and ran out immediately to get some of the leaves put away before the weather got bad :-) Thank you all!

I do have a follow-up question: Do you all rake the garden in the spring and get rid of the whole leaves in the garden? It seems that they suppress growth of seedlings--some snowdrops grew leggy white stems trying to poke through some thick layers of leaves (they were in an area of the yard that I thought was nothing but weeds).

The most we do here in terms of mechanical devices is a small hand-held blower/chopper. And it doesn't get used much. When we do use it, we have to use it on dry leaves or else it gets clogged, much like kqcrna said. This time, we put whole leaves into piles on the perimeter of the yard, and some chopped leaves into the garden (didn't get it all done). Come spring, we'll probably build a bin and compost the leaves more efficiently.

kqcrna: I am glad you said perennials need air and light. Last winter, we didn't get around to mulch much, and I felt rather guilty about it and wondered how many plants I'd killed. Thank you for lifting that off my chest!

Ug! You brought up a good point on those whole leaves. Yes, I get rid of them Either by hand when I am weeding, amending or planting or I take a rake and impale them with the tines. Then I bring the rake to my other hand, and swipe the leaves off the tines and into a cart or onto the lawn to be mowed. I get them up -- and in places where I don't think it matters sauch as under shrubbery, I put shredded hardwood bark mulch on top of them.

Early Bloomer -- You mulch with the bag off, but then you must mow somehow with the bag on to get them up?

Suzy

notgrnjean: Please don't think I'm a soil expert, I'm not! I was just explaining what I do. Many would disagree with me on many points; many till everything into the soil. I don't have a tiller, nor any place to store one, so it's not likely that I'll ever have one. I'm a small middle-aged woman and not about to try to turn all these planting areas by hand! I just do things that I hope will help the soil over time. The more I read, everything seems to agree that the way to improve soil is to add organic matter and I just do what I can physically do and what can afford in terms of time required. I always have beautiful flowers so what I'm doing seems to work for me.

BlueAsh: I don't rake away the leaves in the spring, (seems to me that would defeat the purpose), I plant through them. I just pushed the chopped leaves aside and plant. It's amazing how healthy, determined seedlings pop through that stuff! Last year I built interbay mulch beds over existing mixed flower beds. I thought I would kill off my old daffodils by building over them. Wrong! In spring mountains grew under that newspaper, organic matter (lots of heavy grass clippings) and burlap, and when I peeked upder, sure enough, daffodils! I had to dig them up to get rid of them. But I normally mulch around smaller existing perennials that I want to have survive.

Last year I sowed 80-some containers of wintersown containers, and to my surprize, most all germinated, and those tiny seedlings (1 or 2 sets of true leaves) were planted thru the remaining mulch. I just brush it aside.

Karen

Today I ran several experiments with leaf mulching -- dry VS wet.

Here are oak leaves -- same treatment except the dampness of the leaves. I consider these 2 batches to be very different in size. The dampened ones are on the right, the dry mulched ones on the left. I ended up dampening the batchon the left to get the leaves smaller so they would match the others on the garden.

Suzy

And just for comparison, here are some mixed leaves which are probably beech and sweet gum, but could contain persian parrot. Once again, dampened ones are on the right.

Suzy

Suzy.........Because my yard has been way too wet to mow with my garden tractor this fall I had to resort to mowing it with my push mulching mower with the bag on. No small task since it takes me 2 hours on the rider with a 4' deck. I raked some areas that were just too covered with leaves to mow but still I found I had to stop each time across the section I was mowing to empty the bag. I must have dumped that bag hundreds of times. It's taken a couple of weeks but I've pretty much got it licked. If I had been able to use the rider I would have blown the leaves into rows, mulched them with the push mower with the bag off and been done in a day. Anyway........I take the collected leaves, spread them out about a foot thick, mulch them with the bag off, rake them to turn up any leaves that might remain on the bottom of the pile, then mulch them one last time to get the few leaves that remain. My method is to tip the mower up to take bites out of the pile.

Here is a photo of some leaves I did tonight. The photo is not too good. My digital camera bit the dust and I used my daughters which takes lousey close-ups. I added a dime to the photo to illustrate the size. I would compare it to ground tobacco.

Just wanted to add, that these are maple leaves that were quite wet.

Also, I use a snow shovel to put them in a wheelbarrow or on the compost pile.

early _bloomer

This message was edited Nov 13, 2006 7:05 PM

This message was edited Nov 13, 2006 7:39 PM

Suzy,
If the leaves are not fine enough in one muching pass [backwards], I back over them again. I get small pieces. I think that drier leaves shatter better. .....and are certainly easier to do without wadding up.

I am less specific to size because the bacteria and fungus only need moisture to provide for composting. The size determines rate of breakdown. If you need it fast small slower big or whole.

I pile the leaves on top of the garden in the fall. In the spring, before I plant I will run the mulcher mower over the garden a few times. The leaves are usually so compressed and decomposed by then, they are not deep enough to "smother" plants.

And I plant just like Kqcnra described. Move leaf mulch aside, plant seeds, flatten mulch back in place. The seedlings and perrenials will pop right through the mulch.

I've also seen a weedeater used in a large garbage can. Dump in 1/4 can of leaves, place the weedeater inside the garbage can until desired consistency. I think the lawnmower is better but if you don't have that much or only need a small amount then the weedeater works.

I have a lot of seedlings popping up now which were self-sown from this summer (cerinthe, amaranthus, bachelor buttons, lots of larkspur, and more that I can't think of now). They're popping right through the leaf mulch that I've been putting down for the past few weeks. But then, the leaves have shrunk down to a couple of inches in most areas.

Karen

Early, I would LOVE your shredded leaves! They look like they are about one week away from being compost, don't they?

Karen, That is very, very interesting to me. I've been worried on how I would get things to self sow if I put down leaves as mulch.

Suzy

I think that leaves left on the soil all winter [providing the wind leaves them there] is alright on raised beds of well amended soil. However, on large unraised plots I would not leave thick layers as it may be a cold and wet mess at spring planting time...been there. I also ridge rows on large plots for optium drainage...hey, it can be wet in the spring here east of the prairie

The key to not having a mess and not having them blow away is to shred them, either with a mulching mower or a chipper/shredder. Leaves that have been run through the chipper/shredder are a wonderful mulch.

And my veggie garden is surrounded with chicken wire, so I have leaf containment until I can get them shredded. If I didn't have chicken wire, there is no way my garden would survive the rabbits. And I find tons of worms in the soil under the leaves in the spring. The worms are busy working that organic matter down into the soil... gotta love those worms.

Illoquin: Your leaves look heavenly. I suspect that the wet-vs.-dry thing has to do with your using a mower and my using a hand held vac. Re: self-seeding, tiny seed that require light to germinate probably won't self sow if the mulch is too thick for them to find "dirt" to germinate well and stay moist and also get sunshine. In early spring I'll get out and brush aside some patches of remaining leaves where I'm hoping for re seeders . (that is if I can remember what I had planted where this year!).

Karen

Karen, You're right, it must be the difference in equipment.

You know how it goes, I put on 2 or 3 inches of chopped leaves, then buy a few bulbs at the 50% off sale which need to be planted. They get mixed into the soil and I cover the spot with some of the neighboring leaves....on and on. Then the winter + time + water break them down so they are only an inch or so thick by late March. Then the new plants get planted in the spring and I scrape more leaves from adjacent areas and by June it's like they were never there at all except for a very thin layer of compost on the top. But I will be very careful where I direct sow and especially the the poppy seed which is always difficult for me.

Suzy

Suzy: Have you considered winter sowing? As in outside in containers.? I'm referring to sowing seeds in recyclable containers (empty milk jug seem to be preferred), and leave outside all winter. In spring you have flowers. Poppies were the absolute best for wintersowing. They germinate so early and you get immediate gratification! Please join us on the winter sowing forum here on DG.

Karen

Oh, yeah, I'm going to do it ALL! I have been trying to get poppies to grow, off and on, for over 25 years now. I am going to try EVERYTHING! Wintersowing sounds really good, but the one single problem is that you have to take all those seedlings out of the jugs and plant them one by one. Or if not that, then a hunk of them. But there is no way I can be on my butt (or knees) for that long planting out baby seedlings! I would go crazy. I want to direct sow as much as I think I can get away with. However, the poppies are special and I will do whatever it takes to get bloom next summer. It is my number one goal for the entire year!

You posted a very nice picture -- what kind of poppies are those? And the ones next to them, on the right, the ones that look sort of cabbagy, what kind are those? And one more question I've been dying to get an answer to: is there anything that I can slip into the bed after the poppies bloom? Would zinnias or nasturtiums bloom in time?

I want to have LOT of poppies, but will settle for ANY poppies! LOL!

Suzy

Suzy: I promise to D-mail you tonight or tomorrow.

To everyone else: Sorry, I have taken this thread way off topic. But feel free to visit the wintersowing forum if you are interested.

Karen

Oh I don't think anyone cares Karen. We all veer off topic periodically. No worries.
carol (who has already direct sown her poppies....but did save a batch to winter sow too)