Too late to plant bulbs and rhizomes?

I'm getting mixed signals here. From what I understood, iris can be planted as long as the ground is workable. Bulbs, too.

But now I'm being told that they need at least six weeks of warm weather before frost or they'll die.

I have a couple hundred bulbs and rhizomes still to plant, and the temps are going below freezing for a couple nights next week.

Am I (and my plants) sunk?

I'm a brand new gardener and iris grower, and I guess I'm just not getting the hang of it.

And should I soak the rhizomes before I plant them? Mulch them? (And with what?)

Sorry for so many questions.

From what I've been told, you can plant no later than 6 weeks before your first frost. That's so they can get established before the freeze. If you're already getting a freeze, it may be too late. And no, don't need to soak them. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone. No question is stupid, we all have to start somewhere. I hope I'm right and this helps.

So what do I do with them? I doubt if I can hold them all till next August. Would putting newspaper over the beds help protect them? At least until they get established? I have newsprint paper that one of the garden companies uses for packing. And could I use that as mulch for the winter? With fall leaves on top? I know I've heard straw recommended as mulch, but it's kind of hard to get that in the city.

I feel bad. I so wanted flowers next year, and it appears that I've killed them all even before I get them into the ground. :-( I have garlic to plant, too.

Don't get upset yet. maye someone here can tell you better than I what you can do with them.. Are there too many to pot? Someone else can jump in here and answer your question about the newspaper, I have no idea. I know irises don't like mulching. But fear not yet, someone will have a better solution for you. I hope I'm wrong and you can still have your spring blooms.

I can't say anything about Iris, but I have planted tons of daffodils and tulips in late Nov. in Vermont long after we have had frost and they do just fine. As long as you can plant them at the correct depth I think your bulbs will be fine. Patti

I'm in zone 4, and I'm still planting iris, daylilies and bulbs of all kinds. I've shoveled snow off of a flowerbed to plant bulbs in past years. This is the first year I've planted daylilies this late, but I have a gardener co-worker that says anything with a rhizome or bulb will be just fine, and his favorite time of year to plant such things is now. Even though we will get frosts and the plant may go dormant, it will still put down roots and settle in as long as the ground isn't frozen solid. And the ground won't freeze solid for us until probably December. It may freeze down an inch or so, but most bulbs are planted more than an inch deep.

I would plant them and feel that they would be just fine. I wouldn't cover the rhizomes with newspaper either, because that would cut off the air circulation and they might rot. and most bulbs are planted deep enough that covering them is unnecessary.

All is not lost!

I don't know about mulching -- in my climate mulch rots iris in no time -- maybe it's different over there.

Do you have containers to put them in and some space indoors to keep them? That's what I did that with mine, in my first year of gardening, I stuck them in a long green container I got at homedepot. Once they are established I kept them in the unheated basement so they went dormant, I watered them about once a month so they wouldn't dry out completely. Then in early spring they went outside. When I saw the first shoots I immediately planted them in the bed.

Of course this probably craziness that I just happened to get lucky with, and the experts will probably have something better to tell you, but I did get some blooms that spring and the second year was even better.

Good luck

Get them in the ground kiddo. They're tough. I've planted peonies the first week of December here in Zone 5 and they all grew. Good luck.

the freeze wont hurt it heaving that kills iris put a rock on them for a month and if dry keep watered
root watering not top water .when it stays freezing all is well
forget till spring its the back and forth that kills them. if they heave

I am just starting to plant bulbs and won't be done till late October - you were told right, you can plant as long as the ground is still workable and not frozen. However, I would plant the iris' first, and then the bulbs!

i forgot to say that you can plant the bulbs now -- i've read threads from folks that planted bulbs with snow on the ground and got good flowers in the spring that were maybe a couple weeks later than normal

I just had Jay, my gardening guru co-worker read this thread and he said yes, they will be perfectly fine, especially since in zone 5 you have at least a few weeks to a month more than we do. He said that planting a plant with a rootball can even still be done, depending on the size of the plant and how hardy it is to begin with. He said he just transplanted some rootball plants last weekend, and has no doubt that they will be fine also, since the plants are healthy, somewhat established already, and he moved a little soil with the plant to reduce it's transplant shock.

I trust this guy's word and experience, because I've seen his yard and it's gorgeus.

I have some more daylilies to move soon also, since Southwest Water will be trenching a pipeline through one of my beds to hook up the new water supply we are getting to the house.

Bulbs and rhizomes are two entirely different things. Bulbs are planted deeply, while rhizomes (which are actually modified stems) are planted level with the soil surface. Bulbs can and should be planted late in the fall just before the ground starts to freeze. Iris rhizomes require planting at least 6 weeks before the first hard frost for the best assurance of winter survival.

That's not to say that some late-planted irises won't survive the winter, because they will. It's just saying that the later you plant them, the greater the possibility that they will not survive. In my zone 3b garden, I have found over the last decade that my latest "safe" planting date for bearded irises is Aug. 15. If I plant after that date, I will start to experience some winter loss of the new transplants. If I plant as late as Oct (which I did do one year), many more irises will die over the first winter (up to 90%) than will manage to survive. In your zone 5a climate, I'm guessing you should be able to plant safely into September, but you've probably passed your safe planting deadline by now.

If I were you and I wanted to give my iris rhizomes the best possible chance of survival, I'd either pot them up and overwinter them indoors in sunny windows or under lights, or I'd build a cold frame for them outdoors and overwinter them in there. If neither were viable options, I might go ahead and plant them out, wait till the ground freezes, then mulch lightly with evergreen boughs. Do NOT cover your irises with newspaper and leaves. That would almost certainly rot them. Any mulch material used on bearded irises must NOT compact around the rhizomes and must provide excellent air flow around the bases of the plants.

Remember that there are irises that grow from bulbs (Dutch, reticulata, etc.) and irises that grow from rhizomes (bearded, beardless, etc.). Bulbous irises can be safely planted up until your ground freezes. Rhizomatous irises are the ones that need time to root in before freeze-up.

Laurie

Is there any way to keep the ground around the irises a little warmer for the next couple of weeks? It will get down below freezing for a couple nights next week, then it'll warm up to low temps in the 40s for a while. That's why I was thinking of newspaper. If it keeps the ground warm for those couple of nights, that'll give the irises just that much more time to settle in.

Next year I'll do much better. I promise!

You can cover the rhizomes with a light application of straw or with pine boughs to help keep the ground around them warmer. Make sure you pull it back away from the rhizomes though when it begins to warm up in the Spring. I planted very late in the season last year (lots of rhizomes like you are) and didn't lose any of them and I used pine straw.

Hm, I'm not sure where to get straw or pine boughs in the city, but I'll check into it. I wonder if row covers would work and if garden centers would have them.

I could sacrifice my junipers for the cause, maybe. ;-)

Just wait until after Christmas and collect everyone's old Christmas trees, wreaths, and garlands. You can cut them up and cover your irises with the boughs to help prevent mid-winter and early spring freeze-thaw cycles.

Laurie

Ah, okay. I suppose if I have a Christmas tree, I could sacrifice it to the cause as well. I was just wondering if I should wait that long.

White_Hydrangea,

As a new gardener, there is a basic truth you need to know. Truth #1 is that all of the advice you are receiving in this thread is both correct and incorrect. The reason for that is that gardening is, by its very nature, incredibly unpredictable and variable, so none of us can tell you how things are going to work in your garden. Every garden ... in fact, every square foot in every garden ... presents a different and very specific set of growing conditions. What flourishes under the eaves of your house might die if planted in full sun 10' away. The irises planted in a fast-draining sand pocket are going to need nitrogen to grow well, but that same nitrogen might rot the irises planted in clay. Plant bearded irises in your driest spot and Louisiana irises in your wettest, Spuria irises in alkaline soil and Japanese irises in acidic. Water the heck out of your versicolors but keep your arils dry as a bone after bloom is finished.

My point is this. All any of us can do is offer you advice based on our own experiences with the specific types and cultivars of irises that we grow under our particular growing conditions, which may or may not have anything at all to do with the irises you are growing under the conditions present in your own garden. Accept our advice with the understanding that its usefulness is dependent on your ability to interpret, adjust, and apply it in a manner that works in YOUR garden.

A great source of information regarding irises in your area would be the AIS affiliate iris clubs in CO. Here are their contacts:

Elmohr Iris Society
Russell Eacker, President
2513 Lelaray St
Colorado Springs CO 80909-2404

Loomis Iris Society
Rose D Mclain, President
1210 Hopkins Ave
Rocky Ford CO 81067-2404

Northern Co Iris & Daylily Club
Dwaine D Kurtz, President
33693 Wcr 31
Greeley CO 80631-9379

They'll be able to fill you in on the iris culture techniques that are used successfully in CO.

Laurie

The purpose of winter mulch is not to keep soil warm, but to keep it at a consistent temperature in order to avoid the freeze/thaw cycles that can be deadly to plants during the winter season. That's why mulch is not generally applied until after the ground freezes to make sure it stays frozen for the rest of the winter. If your soil freezes before Christmas, it would be a good idea to obtain a suitable mulch when freezing occurs.

Laurie

I'm very grateful for all the input I've been receiving. As a new iris gardener, and new gardener in general, I basically know nothing. Any info is an addition to my knowledge.

What you said, Laurie, about nitrogen was new to me, too. I have sandy soil, so perhaps I should add some compost. You're right in that rhizomes and bulbs will react differently to my dry, sandy soil than to loamy, moist Midwestern soil. I have done a couple pH tests, and my soil in a couple different places is fairly neutral, possibly a shade to the acidic side (6.5-7.0).

And each year, as I amend the soil as well as my mistakes, my garden will be happier and happier.

All plants need nitrogen, including bearded irises, but too much nitrogen can promote rapid, tender growth in beardeds that is particularly susceptible to bacterial soft rot infections. That's why it is usually recommended to fertilize beardeds with no or low-nitrogen fertilizers. The exception is in very fast-draining soils. Unlike the other primary fertilizer elements of phosphorous and potassium, nitrogen leaches very quickly out of the soil. That's not so much of a problem in clayey soils that retain nutrients well, but it can be a problem in sand. So, you'll probably want to feed your irises lightly with a balanced fertilizer (10-10-10) in the spring about 6 weeks before bloom season and perhaps again right after bloom.

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to till in a moderate amount of compost to add some organic material to your sand, but don't overdo. You don't want to promote a lot of tender new growth so close to winter.

Bearded irises are tolerant of a fairly wide range of soil pH, from moderately acidic to moderately alkaline. They do like lime, so feel free to till some pelletized lime into your iris bed as long as you do NOT intend to add any beardless irises to that same bed (most beardless irises prefer acidic soils and HATE lime).

Laurie

I intend to plant a lot of the spring-blooming flowers together: TB iris, crocus, tulips, daffodils. On the other side of the stump I'm planting pansies and violas. I have some compost that's half straight compost and half steer manure. The soil's sandy, but the good news is that I have worms. (Apparently a lot of them if all the little mounds in my yard tell a true tale. They look like worm castings, anyway.)

I also have some dwarf iris to plant, but they don't have to go with the others.

I'd stay away from steer manure in the iris bed. Perhaps a better amendment of organic material would be sphagnum peat moss (or straight compost if you have some you haven't yet mixed with manure).

If your dwarf irises are bearded, they can go in the same bed with the TBs, if you like, or they'd look really cute with the pansies and violas.

Laurie

Another wonderful soil amendment for irises is alfalfa meal or pellets, available at feedstores. If you call riding stables in your area, they can tell you where your local feedstore is (yes, you should have one even in your urban area). If you do buy alfalfa, make sure you get meal or pellets manufactured as horse feed, NOT rabbit pellets. Rabbit pellets often contain ingredients other than alfalfa that you don't want in your garden.

Laurie

Why not plant your iris rhz. in pots, then bury the pots up near the house where they will be warmer longer. Longer warmth means they have more time for root development before winter freezeup. When frozen in well, then mulch. In the spring move the pots to where you want them (pots buried so they dont cook in the sun). After bloom time, decant and plant them where you want them. Just an idea.

Don't let any manure touch the rhizomes.

inanda

I plant irises of all kinds, as long as I can get to the ground. I always plant iris into the end of October, or November, as that's when I have the time. Last year we had a thaw in January, my daughter had left some siberians in a pile on the ground that she had divided, and I planted them, and they were all fine. I'm still planting some of my bearded iris, and never had any problems with them, this late in the year.

Do you get a lot of snow cover? That will help also.

But I say, go ahead and plant them.

Wow, you have received some great advice, from which I have learned a great deal. As a person who always orders more than I can plant in any reasonable time, I recommend planting your iris in 1 gallon pots and watering them from time to time. Then planting them, whatever time of the year it may be. Some of my iris, I am embarassed to admit, have stayed in pots for 2 years, perhaps even three. The only time I had a lot of iris mortality was when I kept them in a very shady area. Now I keep them in a sunny area. At the moment I have 20-25 iris in 1 gal. pots I will plant them as spaces become available. ( I have to build soil before I can plant anything due to the rocky nature of my neighborhood.) I try to get the actual bulbs into the ground before the soil freezes.
One important thing to understand is that, there may a freeze above ground that will kill annuals and the tops of some perrenials. But the ground itself doesn't freeze so quickly. It takes lots and lots of freezing before the soil becomes so hard you can't plant. That may take months, maybe until December or January. Any plant you get in the ground before deep frost, will grow underground until the soil freezes through.
Though, August and September tend to be the best months for planting, I am still planting now and plan to keep on planting as long as I can dig. I put in 2 grape vines, a crabapple and one hydrangea today along with a small chrysanthemum. I watered it all in and it all looks fine.
Planting things by the clock is a great idea if you can meet the schedule, but inevitably, something goes astray and the plan has to be done later. Luckily, mother nature follows her own rules and tends to be quite successful. I say plant your plants as long as you can, and consider the possiblity that somethings work and others don't for reasons not known to us.
You sound like you are planting sanely.

I overslept today. I was that tired. So I only got four rhizomes into the ground before darkness overtook me. Tomorrow's going to be quite chilly and rainy, but I'll bravely continue. Next week we're going to have lows down into the 20s and 30s, but then it'll warm up a bit.

So it will probably be another couple or several weeks before the ground gets really hard and cold.

Of the Schreiners rhizomes I planted a month ago, my Lacy Snowflake iris is growing a second fan! The Pledge Allegience hasn't dried up yet, so maybe there's hope for it.

I can't seem to grow pansies, though. The ones I bought at the DBG (and planted right away) have flopped over. And I thought pansies were so hardy! This is the second group of pansies that have done that.

After watering, the pansies perked up a little bit. I don't know how much longer they'll last, though. It's cold today, and it's going into early winter temps this week. It's so cold that I have to plant my rhizomes in stages. I go out and plant until my hands go numb, then come inside for a bit, then go out again.

I left a rhizome in front of its hole and went back inside because I forgot my plant markers. I doubt if I was gone a minute. I came out and there he was, my "tree rat," sitting in front of my rhizome gazing at it with lust. If I'd been just several seconds later, I might have lost a beautiful Schreiner batik.

I have some of Patches' fur from when I brushed him last. I may try putting bunches of that out there. Or I may try human hair. I've heard that works.

WH, I'm in the same boat as you. I've got about 30+ bearded irises that I recently dug up from neighbors yard(she's moving and they haven't been divided in abt 4 yrs). Like WH, I'm blessed to have the sandy soil, vs. the more prevelant clay. I also plan on placing the BI in a new raised bed of sorts. I built a 1 1/2 foot retaining wall around a 34y/o silver maple(and that was FUN!). Being in the concrete biz here in Denver, I know our soil doesn't really freeze until January, but we do get cold snaps (lows in the 20's overnight) for a couple of days, then warms again to low 30s-40s for a couple of weeks(with highs anywhere from 50s to 70s-thats t-shirt weather here, being a mile high and close to the sun). We are also in the high desert plains, so the air is VERY dry this time of year. Per norm, we don't really get much snow until Feb-March(but, I've also had a tan as early as Feb). I plan on surrounding a bit with a few native flower seeds(plant in a couple of weeks). I've lightly composted the sandy dirt to help retain water and nutrients(WH- don't put straight peat in our dirt- it dries out way to easy and is difficult to rehydrate- I made that mistake). Any comments to plant/not plant given conditions is appreciated. Oh yeah, these are rhizomes not the bulbs. I planted bulbs last Dec around Christmas, and all came up fine. I can easily get some hay to 'mulch' with.