Substitute for dwarf barberry?

we've had a number of good threads going here on native wildlife-friendly substitutes for various common invasives. now I'm looking for a small shrub, something probably in the 1-2' range. I want to do a planting around the perimeter of my pool fence, and dh came to me the other day with a Lowe's ad and a pic of a rose-colored leaf barberry that he really liked. not really looking to make a tight hedge, just a row along the fence. the pic is from my garden design software. I don't know if there's anything that size that would provide berries or anything for the birds, but at the very least I don't want to plant anything invasive.

gram ~a girl~

You might want to look up Ceanothus ovatus or Rhus aromatica ‘Grow-Low’. 'Grow Low" is not the straight species but it is a cultivar of the native.

Eq ~another girl~

Rhus 'Grow-Low' will stay short, but it will spread to the sides so just be aware of that. I still love that plant. I also like the Ceanothus suggestion. I just planted Ceanothus americanus because that's a great native shrub too.

There is also a miniature Ilex verticllata 'Red Sprite' or 'Nana' or 'Compacta' that gets 2-4' and has brilliant red-orange fruits for the birds through the winter - at least the female does. You need one male (probably 'Jim Dandy') paired with females to get fruits. I know it's a little taller than you want, but it's a nice shrub with more year-round interest and much less dangerous to the environment than barberry. The fruit are really stunning after the leaves come off in the fall.

Here's some info on it. http://www.mobot.org/gardeninghelp/plantfinder/Plant.asp?code=K660

I looked at the Grow-Low and that was my concern...that's not a good place for a spreader. I might have another spot for it, though. there was mention of planting it on banks and I'm thinking it might do well on the slope down to the lake. I could try it there.

I found the Rosy Glow barberry. shouldn't be tough to talk him out of. it's too big, not compact like the pygmy that you see all over.

I had the Ceanothus americanus on my general list of desirable plants. having a little trouble finding anything specific on C. ovatus.

the Ilex is nice, but I'm afraid it might need a generally moister environment.

I'm going to drive you guys nuts, aren't I? all of the nice native shrubs that I really want to plant are just too big. I really appreciate the suggestions. most of them can find another place in my landscape even if they can't work here.

Nothing online for C. ovatus? Let me try to give you details. It's common name is Inland New Jersey Tea. It's a good nitrogen fixer. Grows to only about 18" high and has a compact form. It's great for a dry site. Considerably more attractive than C. americanus as it blooms more profusely. It's fruit is more abundant also. It can handle full sun or part sun and it's virtually problem free. The Possibility Place Nursery in Monee IL sells them. That's where I bought mine. I'm buying more next year.

I had been tossing around adding more Ilex. I might try 'Red Sprite' suggested by DawnG. That looked intersting to me.

Gramma-papa:

Symphoricarpos orbiculatus, coralberry or Indian currant, is a relatively short native shrub which tolerates a wide range of conditions and can easily be managed in the size range you wish.

Way better for everybody than a barberry.

VV, I looked at the coralberry...very nice. i see that it suckers. is it tough to keep under control? that was my reason for staying away from the rhus 'grow-low'. this is not a good spot for something that is going to spread

don't worry about the barberry...it's out. I just need to find something suitable. thanks for the help

I don't garden in NY (as you have surmised), so I can't give you commentary about your conditions.

I also don't garden too formally, so increasing dimensions are welcome for me. That said, coralberry occurs natively here; I've planted this plant here and in the Louisville park system. I have not observed this plant to have escaped it's bounds or to have been demonic in spreading. It will put out thin runners in well-prepared soils (parks). It will make it's colony larger more slowly in drier soils (home).

If your site will disallow any increase in width, then coralberry won't suffice.

the rest of my gardens are not very formal either, but this area around my pool is a little more structured. as I've said earlier in the thread, there are places for all of the plants mentioned here in my landscape, but probably not in this spot. again, thanks for the suggestion.

Equil, I'd still like to find the C. ovatus. haven't had any success as yet, but that doesn't mean it's not out there.

If you can't find it out by you and you lust for it, call The Possibility Place and set a few aside for next spring and I'll go buy them for you and ship them out your way. Sheesh, it would probably be cheaper for me to bare root them for you and box them up than them even if they did do mail order but they don't.

E, I'm probably going to need at least 20-24 of them, if I decide on them. you don't have a pic, by any chance? PlantFiles says Forest Farm has it, but they don't, just C. americanus and some other non -natives. I don't think I want to commit to that many if I haven't seen it. and I don't know that you want to commit to having to buy/box that many either LOL think about it. Nice of you to offer, either way. I'll keep looking. Got some time.

You are about a week too late on getting a photo out of me. Mine dropped their leaves prematurely. Weird year. I could take a photo of the remaining twigs for you but that wouldn't do much in helping you decide if you were interested in them or not. Let me go on line and do a search for images and see what I come up with. In the interim, why don't you e-mail them and ask them to send you a few photos. I'm sure they would. Also too, if it's something you really want... I wouldn't mind boxing them for you. I certainly know what it's like to want something so bad you can taste it a few states over and out of reach! Dontcha just hate when some nurseries don't do mail order!

BINGO!

http://www.missouriplants.com/Whitealt/Ceanothus_ovatus_page.html

http://www.ionxchange.com/images/thumbnails/c/ceanothus_ovatus_01.jpg

http://www.gardensnorth.com/catalogue/images/Ceanothus_ovatus_s.jpg

http://www.botanika.hu/botkert/erdekessegek/coenanthus_ov2.jpg

http://www.botanika.hu/botkert/erdekessegek/coenanthus_ov.jpg

I'm rather surprised there aren't better images out there but a few are better than none.

E, ionxchange has seeds and PLANTS. and they have a 32 pot flat for $80. I e-mailed them to see if they had any better pics and any more info. question for you...you mentioned 18" - is that the size yours is, or did the tag say that was the size it would be at maturity. everything I see is saying 3' or more. or was yours a cultivar?

The C. ovatus rarely goes taller than 18". I saw that one link that said it could go up to 1 meter but I've never seen that. I think the Possibility Place listed it as 12"-18" in height with an equal spread. I went on line and found everything for this plant from 1-2' to 2-3' as well as sites that simply said up to 3'. I don't know, maybe you should give them a call and ask or ask the Ion Exchange. If you buy a flat from them, I'd be happy to take what ever you don't need off your hands and I'd be happy to pay you for them as well as the shipping and handling.

asked them about size when I e-mailed. I'll let you know what they say. if I decide to get them, I'm sure we can work something out with the leftovers.

I like leftovers, count me in for your spoils.

E, just heard back from ionxchange. according to them, C. ovatus get about 4', but blooms more heavily than C. americanus for them. so I'm still confused. they didn't have a pic of the whole plant.