ty·ro also ti·ro (tī'rō)
n., pl. -ros also -ros.
A beginner in learning something.
Here is my 2 cents worth .. Let's also hear from other Adepts their methods too please!
After the flower is gone you will be left with little green capsules if the flower was successfully pollinated. The green capsules will grow bigger and bigger and finally turn brown. Inside you will find brownish black seeds.
Canna are hard coat seeds. What this means is you have to put a hole in the coat in order for it to germinate. Just a little one .. enough to see white. Some people use a nail file, I use my dremel tool and drill.
Once you have your hole in it, soak it overnight in hand hot water then plant it about 1/2 inch deep in some good potting medium. They can take anywhere from 1 - 6 weeks to show up. If you plant them early enough they will bloom the first year.
The neat thing about growing canna from seed is that you will never know what you are going to get. They don't always breed true to the parent. So don't be surprised if your home grown canna doesn't look anything like the plant you got the seeds from!
X
For the Canna Tyros - How to Grow Canna From Seeds
Takes a Seat at the Front Hands X a Apple smiles thinks hope she dont see the worm hole
B raises hand says Thank you, X, look out for the worm hole! (another attempt to be teachers pet)... I tried some a couple years ago, maybe I didn't drill the little hole..... got my hall pass- off the the seed trading forum ;)
says to B Snitch
Thanks for the advice someone sent me some seeds so now I know how to do it .Fran
I like tyro better than newbie...and paul.. you may grovel at anytime! ;-)
Actually I'm somewhat a tyro at canna .. just an adept at starting seeds .. pretty much any seeds except for protea and leucospermia.
X
This message was edited Sep 21, 2006 4:57 PM
Oops, forgot you say Thanks, X. That is simple and precise instructions.
You are quite welcome!
Though, I'd like to hear how others start their seeds as well.
X
I use a pair of needle nose and a file on the big seeds i can do ten in about 5mins on the really small about 5 seeds in 8mins. i plant mine in straight Verniculite i transplant at about 5 weeks old to a good soil . Germination can be from 2 weeks to about 4 depends a lot on the seed i have had some come up in a week before but thats not usually the norm i plant my brug seeds about the same to Regards Paul
Wow, great advise. I am new to cannas and have been searching for seed pods since I read this. I have lots and can't wait to try growing them from seeds. I just love trying new things.
Should I plant the seeds now or wait for spring. Will they do ok outside or should I start them under cover with heat? How much water? Sorry for all the questions but how else am I going to learn?
Thanks Linda
Hi Linda,
You can plant anytime in small pots if your Zone is 9. If your Zone is 8 or less, and have a nice sunny south facing window to overwinter it, go for it. Once they sprout and you see roots coming out the bottom of the pot, repot into a gallon pot. Come Spring, plant outside where you want it.
X
Thanks for the help. I am excited to try this. I will plant the seeds now and hope for new cannas! I am in zone 9.
I have a couple of favorites I want to try . Now is it ok to do this with any cannas? Are some protected by the breeder? If so how do I know. These are just for my use, not for sale.
Thanks Linda
You bought the plant so you have rights to progeny produced from seed. Remember, canna does not breed true from seed most of the time!
X
X,
i know this is a very old thread... but i just got some Canna seeds in the mail
and when i googled "who to grow canna by seed" -- it brought me to your thread.
being early June, up here in zone5 .... should i give one or two a try, or just wait til next year?
Some years, we don't get a frost til Nov, but sometimes sooner.... it's been such a whacky weather year already... no idea what we will get come fall.
any input would be great,
Terese
Go for it! I Start my canna in pots pretty much anytime. I keep them in the pots for about a year or so. This gives them time to grow healthy and strong rhizomes before being subjected to "real life in the canna bed".
If I start some in late winter or fall, I don't let them go completely dormant so the rhizomes continue to grow (I have a greenhouse). I set the pots on 2ltr soda bottles, laid on their sides, painted black with water in them, "passive solar heating". The warmth in winter from the bottles keeps the soil above 65 degrees.
The latest I will put canna in the ground is early August.
X
I just now found this article too! Thank you, X. X, do you happen to have a picture of where on the canna plant the seed(s) are? I have 3 cannas. One real tall one with orange blossoms and one Tropicanna (short), not in bloom yet......and one reg canna (short) with unopened buds.
Now, when my tall orange blossom one is done for the season (not Tropicanna), where on the plant is the seed? I am such a novice, I want to be real clear on saving the seed so I can grow according to your instructions.
Much appreciated
Cissy
You will find the seeds where the flowers used to be. In the picture you see green immature seed pods on the right. On the left you see brown mature seed pods. The seeds inside will be very dark brown to black, about the size of a large pea or small marble.
Also note that not all canna will produce seeds. Bengal Tiger is a good example. The seed pods will grow but not produce any viable seed. A lot of hybrids are like this. I'd also like to stress again that it is very unlikely that the plant from a seed will look like the parent.
X
This message was edited Jul 6, 2008 10:57 AM
Oh, thank you, X! I understand about the seeds not all being viable. I guess one wouldn't know until they are planted. Thank you so much! :D
Cissy
I have held off growing seeds for the last two years due to all the breeding I did 3 years ago. I have finally been able to catch up and start sprouting seeds again this year. Most of mine are considered open end hybrids. This is because I am using many different pollens on the same plant. The ones I have high hopes for I put in envelopes and store till I am ready to use the pliers and file on them. I have found that this helps them to germinate at roughly the same rate. When your dealing with thousands and thousands of seeds this method is impossible. I use another method that is much more easy and lazy. You take all the mix seeds and soak them in water for a day then you put them in flat trays keeping the soil moist. Place in full sun and let bake. I often use tops on the trays as well. The one thing to be careful with is as soon as they start to germinate remove them into small pots or new trays with out tops, they will burn up inside the closed container. This method works great but the germination rate is erratic some seeds will germinate right away while others may sit their all summer long. The rate they sprout is enough to keep me busy all summer long. I usually have a lot left over at the end of summer to try again next year.
Brian .. you have some beautiful canna .. i love to look at your pictures .. roughly, how many seeds/plants do you have to go thru before you get a winner?
X
X it all depends on what you consider a winner. I have found many in just a few crosses that will work for my own personal displays but probably not for mass market. I think the key is what plants your working with. If your using species it can take many many crosses to get a nice hybrid. On the other hand if your working with known hybrids or hybrids that are on the path to what your wanting to create I tend to get more unique looking plants. As with most things the less attractive the plant is the more seeds it produces and the more attractive the less likely you are to get seeds.
I thought I should add a note that I have gotten seeds off of some of the impossible forms such as Bengal tiger, Stuttgart , Black Knight and others. So they are very difficult to get seed from but usually about 1 out of every 100 attempts you get something it seems.
Your also right on your plants producing very different looking seedlings. I have had some with dark leaves produce green leaf seedlings and vise versa. It seems thought that the less genetics involved in the plant the more stable the seedlings will be. Hybrids will have seedlings that will resemble plants from it's breeding line while species will produce almost exact duplicates. This is not always the case but it is the usual.
The key to getting nice hybrids is producing good crosses being very selective and mass growing. The larger your numbers are the higher your chances for a winner the better the breed lines are your chances go up more, after that it depends on luck or genetic manipulation. I will see how the genetic manipulations goes very soon.
Wow .. you've actually gotten seeds from Bengal Tiger? I keep hoping and crossing my fingers but no luck in the last 5 years .. I've been wondering if the pollen from BT is viable .. I'm thinking a cross Karchesky's Chocolate Cherry with the BT would really be interesting.
I know in morning glory crosses the f-1 is usually a good blend of the parents and f-2 is a dilution of sorts, it's f-3 with mg where things get wild .. is this true with canna as well? Do you even bother with f-2's & 3's?
X
Your F2 and F3 are where you will see some of the nicer hybrids. However the cannas for the most part we are working with are all mutts or older hybrids and the heritage of these can bring up an array of different unseen traits. In most cases when breeding the first hybrid produces a combination of the two parents and the F2s will produce a spectrum of different prodigies. The more you continue to breed the more sterile the plants start to become and the more the genetics are jumbled up. It is usually in the F3s that you start seeing tetriploids and higher chromosome counts. A odd number of chromosomes will produce a sterile plant. With many of these the pollen is still good but the pollen is very scares and at times non existent. If of course you leave the technical ideas aside and breed beautiful and well performing plants with each other you will usually have very good stock and can easily come up with very interesting plants. I also have been breeding back to species and I think their are a lot of genes that may be missing in our hybrids today that could be brought into newer hybrids. Breeding new hybrids back to species can produce some interesting hybrids with new characteristics. It can take sometime breeding back and forth but species are quick to produce seed and easy to work with. With Cannas it is at times hard to pick out a certain trait to go for. You have to really keep a good eye on a plant and look for nick picky things to breed for. I for one have been breeding for different color combinations as well as flower power and flower shedding. Each year I produce something better than the following year.
Another note is oddities in your breeding such as wavy leaves large flower clusters that don't perform or other odd habits. I have talked to other breeders that see this odd behavior as bad traits and the plants are quickly thrown into the trash heap. Each hybrid has more genetic back ground than most people realize and often extremely deformed and overly genetic creations can be the key to great new plants. One case is a friend who told me of a fairly unattractive plant in his collection that he would breed everything with. This plant seldom produced seeds but when it did their was a 50/50 chance that the seedling would be extremely beautiful and worth naming. Now this does not mean that their aren't some that are just not going to perform. The idea here is to know what to look for. In most cases these plants are thick leaf large petal plants that are in the F3 or higher breed lines. I would consider them the gold gooses of breeding and most breeders usually have a plant like this they don't let out. Of course they are not all ugly but some can be pretty unusual. Just a odd ramble but something to look for.
This message was edited Jul 7, 2008 12:31 AM
Thank for that info! It answered a lot of my questions. I'm also starting to see the benefits of crossing plants that produce rhizomes. You don't have to spend generations stabilizing a cross like you do with morning glory.
I'm curious as to what the "first" canna looked like.
X
This message was edited Jul 7, 2008 9:36 AM
Most cannas were like daylilys most produce small flowers and were not extremely attractive compared to the huge flowering hybrids of today. Here is a pic of a seedling off of species indica. This is were most of the reds yellows and spotted genes came from. Other forms like Canna warszewiczii is were pinks and dark leaves have shown up. The larger petal forms seem to mainly come from the species Canna flaccida which is most likely what was used in most earlier hybrids. Their were a few species that seemed to have dropped of the planet that were rarely if ever used. These are some that I hope to do more work with.
Ahhh .. the canna's pictured here are ones I grew from seed. The parent was a tall deep red with flowers the shape of the bt. All of the seeds I have grown from the red parent have flowers like these, expressing old genes.
X
The unpollinated seeds will produce things like this from old genes while new hybrids may produce combinations and at times throw out stuff unseen for generations. This hybrid I made has some very unusual leaf blotching. I am working hard to improve this one on all levels.
Ok newbie?? will my canna australia make seed?
Thanks, Kim
Can anyone tell me how long a canna grown from seed takes to make a good rhizome that can be dug and overwintered for people in northern climates?
Any thoughts on the best way for northern gardeners to overwinter canna's if they don't have a rhizome by the time winter arrives?
Thanks!
Onalee
what a great question!
onalee. I want the answer to that ? too. I grew some seed this winter and put them in the garden. Here is my real good one. I love it. It is a dwarf and I named BEV"S BEAUTY.Ther e are three pics. Will it have a rizome that I can keep it? I is only 2 ft tall.
a close up
another
I read your hints on how to plant canna from seeds; only after buying and planting seeds I bought. LOL I am a beginner gardener; but have always loved Canna Lilies, so Park's had a sale on canna seeds, bought some and decided to give it a try, as I've planted rhizomes with some luck. I decided to plant them in a Jiffy Greenhouse with a dome inside the house in peat pellets first and then when they are stronger will move them outside gradually. Anyways, I expanded the pellets, planted them then read the directions right? So; quickly dug them all back out, soaked them for 2 days and then scraped enough off to see a little of dot of white on them, and replanted them in the peat pellets. I guess I will know in about 10 days if they are going to grow or not? I have just planted 13 canna rhizomes in pots outside the house and have 7 of 11 others in pots doing really well, transplanted one to the canna bed already. I live in NW Florida, so feel my plants will make it through the winter?
The canna should do fine in the ground.
X
My brother threw me a caution about my love for Canna Lilies, as they are my favorite flowering plant. He said that they attract snakes. Now, I've heard that if you put moth balls under your deck and porches, where snakes love to go because of the spots being shady and damp, that the moth balls will deter their visits, as they can't stand the smell of moth balls. I live in NW Florida where snakes are very popular, rattlers and gardener snakes. Should I treat my canna beds with moth balls? Will that hurt the cannas?
joy112854
Have you seen any snakes? Do you have small children or animals that could be harmed by poisonous snakes? The truth about snakes is that they are more afraid of you than you are of them and go out of their way to avoid contact. Snakes contribute greatly to keeping rodent populations down. I have water moccasins, black snakes and copperheads .. I see them from time to time and leave them alone and they leave me alone. I have never, ever seen a snake in my canna bed. If you do see a lot of snakes, then chances are you have a rodent problem and getting rid of the snakes could be a bad thing. Snakes go where the food is.
Napthalene is what mothballs are made of .. Since snakes don't have a very good sense of smell, napthalene in snake repellents is more for the consumer to make them think its working and you can rest assured that moths won't get into your canna (hmmm .. I wonder if it might be a good deterrent for leaf rollers!) .. napthalene can be more hazardous to small children and pets than snakes. It won't hurt your plants though.
If you are worried, always carry a broom with you and use the handle to root around the base of plants before you work on them.
X
I have hundreds of cannas and have lived in several different houses with them. I can't remember ever running across a snake in my cannas, not to say they didn't pass through. I currently live on a farm with two big ponds within 75 feet of my house and I haven't seen any snakes in my canna beds. There again they might be there but I haven't seen them. LOL
I have the perfect solution for avoiding snakes. Because of a deer problem, I bought deer netting from Lowe's for $15. It is 100 feet by 8 feet. When I strung it up around my flower beds, I had a small amount of it folded on the ground. Soon I discovered that as a snake tried to go through it, it was caught forever! You can let the sun kill it or you can get a hoe-------because it is not going any where. Now, I know that many of you will say that snakes are good------but, I am 76 and fearful of having a heart attack when I see one. A very good use for it is to cut a small section of it, twist it, and put it at the base of a bird box pole. At one time I had 2 snakes in the netting as they knew that the baby blue birds were in there. Also, I have thought that if one had a shed out back where you were fearful of snakes, you could put it on the ground around the entire structure.
Shirleyd
Zone 7b
Wow: thanks for the advice. No; I have not seen any snakes lately or yet; now I wouldn't really be too worried about gardner snakes but would about rattler snakes and mice or rats, yuch. Yes, the good thing is snakes would eat any mice and rats of which ,I don't have; knock on wood, I understand some people do in this area due to them clearing a bunch of trees, this used to be all woods and I moved here about 7 years ago after retirement bought a piece of land, put up a house, and thought, ah country life here I am, a few years later, here come the contractors chopping all the trees down and in went about 600 houses, the poor critters in the woods had no place to go, so of course they scattered everywhere. I had a 6 ft privacy wooden fence built onto the back of the house and have really good luck at no animals getting in the back to get to my veggies, my fence is reinforced at the bottom with concrete, the bunnies can't even find a way to dig in, and don't think the squirrels want to risk falling that far down to get a few snacks . I also had a 30 x 12 foot deck with 20 ft ramp added to the front, that is where I start my plants in pots and then transfer them to gardens. I have decided that I am going to plant cannas all around the house to include the deck of which I will use dwarf cannas to line the ramp. I had thought about moth balls for leaf rollers too; but a person who works in a nursery said that they don't work on leaf rollers. Still, cannas are pretty tough little flowers, mine got leaf rollers and had to be treated with systemic to get rid of them, and my cannas are doing fine now. Does anyone know what the canna is called that has purple like leafs and really orange flower?
YSIC
Joyce