What is the best thing to spray

Hi, I am getting ready to bring in my house plants, and I was wondering what is the best thing to spray them with to get rid of the bugs that may be on them? I usually just give them a good bath, spraying with dish soap and water.

Thanks Connie

Neem Oil works wonderfully. Make sure you use 100% pure Neem Oil, from the makers of Dyna-Gro.

GH

Hi GH, thanks, wheres the best place to buy it?

cg

Dyna Gro has a website....I believe it is www.dynagro.com. You can also purchase it from Logee's. I know there are other online vendors who sell it, but they are not coming to mind right now!

Sorry,
GH

NP GH, thanks

I just looked that up. Is it more than a leaf shine?

Neem Oil more than a leaf shine? Oh, yes!

It will kill nearly every mite there is, along with other things. I've only been using it this season but I haven't found a single plant that it's damaged. Mine has a very pleasant "orangish" scent (although I've heard some Neem does stink). It does shine the leaves very nicely too, which I just see as an added benefit. If I see a bug I don't want, I Neem it.

Read your labels! Don't use in full sun during mid-day, and don't forget to spray the under side of the leaves. Also be sure to dampen the top of the soil surface.


Thanks for starting this thread, I was just going to ask the same question.
Heather

Good Advice, Heather. Neem Oil MUST be used according to the package label. I can't tell you how many people have NOT followed the directions and have lost plants because of it. You can't spray your plants with it and then leave it in the sun. It will be cooked. In fact, the best time to use it is in the early morning or evening hours when the temps are lower. If it rains on your plants after an application, you will need to reapply. Neem does not have any "sticking power" on it's own, if you will. This is why you use a surfectant, such as Ivory dish soap, to help it stay on the leaves longer. Al(Tapla) wrote a wonderful article last year on how Neem oil works- to the T! He's a wonderful person and so knowledgeable. I can't remember if that article is here or on GardenWeb, just that it exists.

Neem does work, secondarily, as a natural leaf polish. It's GREAT! It does stink, though. Smells like onions-rotten ones. LOL

GH

The article.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/houseplt/msg111733153759.html

Just came upon this thread. If any are interested, I updated that article recently. I can post here - or contact me & I'll forward the newer one with more complete info.

Al

Al, I'd appreciate if you'd post it here. I had to put a couple of my plants outside and I've been worried to pieces about bringing them in. Thanks so much!

yes please post it here, Thanks cg

I'm interested in the info too. I noticed that both Al and GH use the Dyna-Gro. A couple weeks before this thread started I got some GreenLight Neem concentrate.
Active ing:
Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil....70%
Inert ing:..............................................................30%

Is this no good?

Debbie

Neem Extract as an Insecticide


In India mainly, but also Asia and Africa, grows a tree all plant enthusiasts should be aware of, Azadirachta indica, commonly known as the "neem" tree, and a relative of mahogany. Extracts from the tree’s seeds contain azadirachtin, a relatively safe and effective naturally occurring organic insecticide. Let me preface the comments following, by reminding you that the terms "naturally occurring and/or organic" do not universally mean safe. Pyrethrums, rotenone, and even the very dangerous nicotine are all organic insecticides that should be handled with great caution. Neem extracts, on the other hand are very safely used in a wide variety of cosmetics, as a topical treatment for minor wounds, as an insecticide in grain storage containers, bins, and bags, and a whole host of other applications, and have extremely low mammalian toxicity. I'll limit this discussion to its use as an insecticide.

Neem works in many ways. It is effective both in topical and a systemic applications. It is an anti-feedant, an oviposition deterrent (anti-egg laying), a growth inhibitor, a mating disrupter, and a chemosterilizer. Azadirachtin, a tetranortriterpenoid compound, closely mimics the hormone Edison, which is necessary for reproduction in insects. When present, it takes the place of the real hormone and thus disrupts not only the feeding process, but the metamorphic transition as well, disrupting molting. It interferes with the formation of chitin (insect "skin") and stops pupation in larvae, thus short-circuiting the insect life cycle. It also inhibits flight ability, helping stop insect spread geographically

Tests have shown that azadirachtin is effective in some cases at concentrations as low as 1 ppm, but some producers use alcohol in the extraction of neem oil from plant parts which causes the azadirachtin to be removed from the oil. Some products touting neem oil as an ingredient actually have no measurable amounts of azadiractin. I use what is referred to either as cold pressed or virgin neem oil. You may also occasionally find it referred to as "raw" neem or "crude" neem oil.

Neem oil is most often used in an aqueous (water) suspension as a foliar spray or soil drench. Commonly, it is diluted to about a .5 to 2% solution, but the suggested ratio for use in container plant culture is 1 tsp. per quart of warm water. A drop or two of dish soap (castile or olive oil soap is best) helps keep the oil emulsified. The mixture is then applied as a mist to all leaf and bark surfaces and as a soil drench to the tree's root system. It should not be applied as a foliar spray on hot days or in bright sun as leaf burn may occur. Remember to agitate the container frequently as you apply and do not mix anymore than you will use in one day. Neem breaks down rapidly in water and/ or sunlight.

Some users of insecticides feel the need to observe the instant results of their efforts in order to be convinced of the effectiveness of what they are using. The application of neem derivatives does not provide this immediate gratification. There is virtually no knockdown (instant death) factor associated with its use. Insects ingesting or contacting neem usually take about 3 - 14 days to die. Its greatest benefit; however, is in preventing the occurrence of future generations. It is also interesting to note that in studies it was found that when doses were given, purposefully insufficient to cause death or complete disruption of the metamorphic cycle, up to 30 surviving generations showed virtually no resistance/ immunity to normal lethal doses, so it appears that insects build no ‘resistance’ to azadiractin.

I have been using neem oil for five years as both a preventative and fixative and have had no insect problems on my container plants. Applications of cold-pressed neem oil are most effective for use on mites, whitefly, aphids, thrips, fungus gnats, caterpillars, beetles, mealy bugs, leaf miners, g-moth, and others. It seems to be fairly specific in attacking insects with piercing or rasping mouth parts. Since these are the pests that feed on plant tissues, they are our main target species. Unless beneficial like spiders, lady beetles, certain wasps, etc., come in direct contact with spray, it does little to diminish their numbers.

Neem oil does have an odor that might be described as similar to that of an old onion, so you may wish to test it first, if you intend to use it indoors. I've found the odor dissipates in a day or two. As always, read and follow label instructions carefully.

Neem oil can be purchased from many net or local sources. My favorite brand is Dyna-Gro pure neem oil. If you have trouble locating a source, you can contact me via the forum or directly.

AL FASSEZKE

Deb - When alcohol is used to separate neem oil from the seeds, virtually all of the azadirachtin and related compounds are removed from the oil. What is left, the oil without the azadirachtin - is called Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil. Its effectiveness would lie primarily in its ability to smother certain insects and perhaps as an anti-fungal.

Al

Thanks for the great info! I think I have the same mix as Deb.

Something I've been wondering about for a while is this...Would PURE Neem Oil (no alcohol used in processing and no other insecticides added) be considered an organic? I have been assuming it would be considered organic, but I don't like to assume. Would like your opinions, please.

Thanks,
Heather

Thanks Al!! So all the good stuff is gone from my Neem. Can you buy Dyna-Gro locally?

Typically, under the guidelines of the National Organic Standards Act, pesticides that are allowed in production of crops that are organically certified are naturally derived and/or have minimal impact on our environment. As a result, most insecticides that can be used in "Certified Organic" applications generally are either microbial insecticides (e.g., Bacillus thuringiensis, Beauveria bassiana) or botanical insecticides (e.g., pyrethrins, neem extracts). In addition, regulations for certification also extend to the "inert ingredients" or extract residuals. So, some products containing neem oil derivatives may not be acceptable for "Certified Organic" applications, but the reason has nothing to do with the neem extract proper. Cold-pressed neem oil is completely organic and an acceptable insecticide for use in all organic IPM programs I'm aware of. It's likely the emulsifiers or extraction residuals in the "other" products that gets them booted from the list.

In addition to cold-pressed oil, a search turned up these products that contain azadiractin as acceptable in "organic" gardening according to NOSA standards: Agroneem, AZADirect, Azatrol, Ecosense, Ecoside, Neemix 0.25, Neemix 4.5. The products I know of with no (or trace amounts of) azadiractin that are used primarily as a suffocant or for their anti-fungal properties are: Trilogy and Triact.

I hope that helps.

Al

Baja - Can "I" buy it locally or can "you"? lolol

I'm sure, in Tulsa, you could buy it locally, but I usually buy it from: http://www.trappist.net/estore/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=BM&Category_Code=fertilizer or from http://www.stonelantern.com/bonsaipestcontrol.html

Good luck.

Al

Well, I meant me. I looked at Lowe's, Home Depot, and 1 nursery yesterday. Didn't find it. I was trying to get it now instead of ordering. Thanks for the info Al.

Thanks so much Al. I'm so glad to hear that the cold pressed is organic because it works so well, there's no reason to use anything else. I always try to use and stay organic whenever possible. I'll have to get the cold pressed, probably the same brand you're using.

What exactly do you do for a living, and why do you know so much about all of this anyway...or shouldn't I ask? lol

If you haven't posted this info in your DG Diary you should consider doing that, then you can just link to it and it's always available whenever anyone would like it...less work for you. =^)

Thanks again!
Heather

Have any of you, used Immunox 3 in 1 ?
My cousin swears by this stuff,
Connie

Wow. Cegoins, did you read the back. Harmful to humans and animals, and it only can be used outside. Scary stuff. I am upset about my Neem oil also. I can't use it on my Japanese Maple, Gardenia or Sweetpeas. Aww... I am crying over here....

IndoorGarden, My cousin uses this on the house plants she lets set out thru the summer and then takes them in. she swears by it and all her plants are just beatiful.... I am going to try this on the ones I need to bring in and see for my self. If I don't have the money to buy the neem oil right now, Immunox 3 in 1 was only 5 bucks at lowes. It also feeds your plants.

cg

Al, did you mean the insect hormone "ecdysone?" You wrote "Edison" in your earlier post.
What about insecticidal soap? Not good? 'Cause that's what I used on mine.

Glad I found this thread... I also have this mix of Neem (same as Deb/Heather):
Clarified Hydrophobic Extract of Neem Oil....70%
Inert ing:..............................................................30%

Judging by the posts above I'll need to get the pure stuff. I noticed when I used it last year during winter (after I found an infestation, the above mixture really didn't do much).

Will try the pure neem this year. :)

Yes, "ecdysone" is what I typed, but spell-check had no clue as to what I was talking about & took it upon itself to change a perfectly good word - thanks for catching that! Actually, I fell asleep at the spell-check switch I'm afraid. ;o)

Insecticidal soap is safe & just fine for many applications, though it works differently & its effects are not very long-lasting.

Al

Neem is great! On large-leave philo plants and giant peace lilies, it makes the leaves looks o strong, thick and healthy! It does leave quite a mess on the patio though if it drips, so you might want to spread an old sheet or towel underneath until the dripping stops. Note, I used it on my 'Black Magic' Colocasia, in the shade, and it burnt the leaves. But on hibiscus, palms, almost everthing else in my garden, it worked great as a general bug preventative and leaf enhancer.

What's everyone's second choice? I am allergic to neem.

I got a bottle of Dyna-Grow!! But there's not 1 word about what Not to spray it on. Does anyone know what plants you can't use Dyna-Grow on??

Thanks,
Debbie

Baja, for what it is worth, I have a Houseplant book that lists the plants that are often sensitive to Neem. The book is named "The Complete Houseplant Survival Guide" by Barbara Pleasant. Those plants listed on page 279 are:

African Violet
Begonia
Crown of Thorns
Ferns(not all are sensitive)
Geranium
Ivy
Jade plant and other succulents
Palms
Schefflera

I've used Neem on a Schefflera, indoors, and it did brown the leaves, which subsequently dropped. I used it on a schefflera, indoors also, prior to that one with no ill effects. What the? Anyways, I've also used Neem on sansevieria, a succulent type plant, with no ill effects. I have also used it on some rex and rhizomatous begonias with no ill effects. I've used it on a Neanthe Bella Palm with no ill effects.

I've used Neem for years on begonias with no ill effects. I don't like to use it indoors due to its odor (it is quite pungent - it isn't disgusting but it isn't pleasant either). I use it on all houseplants that are outdoors which includes cactus & succulents, schefflera, ivy, and my one palm with no problems. I buy the Schultz Garden Safe brand at Home Depot or Wal-Mart.

GH, that sounds like a great book to have!!! Thanks for lookin that up for me!!!

Debbie

Hcmcdole is right. The smell will kill you. I used it indoors. It took 3 days before it went away. I love the results from it. I see why pest would not like it. The smell made me want to run. Just mixing it made me want to hurl. Since we are on great little things to spray on our plants to prevent pest, has anyone tried "compost tea"? The film it leaves on the plant is a great deterrent to pest and the CO2 in the tea makes you plants want to jump up and dance. The bonus is it does not smell like neem.

What a great thread this is, very good reading!

Thanks tapla for you input/perspectives on the various forms of Neem. I've used it for a couple years now and have had great results with it and feel very comfortable using it, both in the veggie garden and in my greenhouse. (I'm getting ready to try it on some potted gardenias in the greenhouse for scale and "possible spider mites"...those mites are too small for my eyes to see but all the symptoms are there!).

IndoorGardner, when you said above "Scary stuff. I am upset about my Neem oil also. I can't use it on my Japanese Maple, Gardenia or Sweetpeas." were you referring to the Immunox3 or the type of Neem that you bought?

Happy Growing, Folks!
Shoe.

Hi Shoe! Nice to see you over here. I've been following the thread you started years ago about that poor turkey....LOL

GH

"that poor turkey"! Hah! You make me smile bigtime! Thanks! *grin

I shoulda just turned that turkey loose on my plant bugs, eh?

Shoe

But then what would you have used the alum on? LOL LOL :)


GH

Maybe weed control? :>) To help keep it in check?

Not a bad idea!!! LOL