Ailanthus, big empty space

For all you naysayers out there, a little batting of the eyelashes does work. My tree guy was here on Thurs. and told me he couldn't take down the tree till next week. He showed up yesterday morning. Here is a before and next will be the after.

Here's the after. The lilacs are set to come out next. In among them, I found a redbud. It will stay. I had them take all the dirt they could with it. I have some I can fill in the hole with. He's also guaranteed me no return of the tree. It's seed might sprout, but he's guaranteed the roots nor the ground out stump will return. If it does? He comes back for free. Ah, to be a female.....:o)

This is not my photo, I found it in some sort of a free desktop wallpaper place but how appropriate!

I had a few of these trees but they are gone now. I wish I would have taken photos before I nuked mine. I was recently out and about in a few communities that have been inundated with Tree of Heaven. I took a few photos to send to my friend Ruth and thought I might post the Momma tree here-

edited for grammar- sheesh... did took a few photos?


This message was edited Sep 2, 2006 4:53 PM

Seeds are readily windblown and a disproportionately high percentage are viable. Here are some babies I found growing near the Momma-

More babies-

Even more babies-

And more babies across the 4 lane main street-

For those interested, note the pinnately compound Ailanthus altissima leaf with leaflets. Inset: There are glands at the base of leaflet lobes.

Here's a so so close up of a leaf as well as the underside of a leaf-

At this time of year, the seeds provide a spectacular show-

Better photo-

Nice sites discussing Ailanthus-
http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/aial1.htm
http://www.cnr.vt.edu/forestupdate/Articles/bigstink.htm
http://www.invasive.org/eastern/eppc/ailanthus.html

EQ:

Note your erratum in image 8 (closeup front/back). That is a leaflet, not a leaf since you correctly noted that Ailanthus is pinnately compound.

Now: post a closeup of the smell with which one can easily (and unforgettably) always ID this species...

Terry,

Hurray for you! I've read several posts where you bemoan that tree so I'm thrilled for you. Aside from the Redbud, what are your plans for that "big empty space?"

Equil, great pics showing the invasiveness of Ailanthus. I see similar examples every morning on my way to work in Camden, NJ. Around here, everyone calls them Ghetto palms.

FW, all of those photos were taken near the Momma in a residential neighborhood because there was little or no traffic in that area. What's interesting to note is that while driving around that city, I spotted hundreds. There must be thousands. Those photographed were the only ones I could get out my car window when I didn't have another vehicle ramming up my butt. What I find most disheartening is that this is an ethnic neighborhood where English is a second language if even spoken at all. Education on the invasiveness of this plant will be crippled which is sad given most people do care and would try to do something to reduce the spread into their parks and natural areas.

Good point. Camden is a poor neighborhood as well, so having trees removed is, understandably, low on their list of priorities.

The neighborhood in which I photographed the Stink Tree offspring is hardworking. Although many of the homes are in assorted states of disrepair due to lack of money, if you walk into any of them they are very clean. Their yards, although you don't see many plant additions, are not so dissimilar to the insides of their homes. Neat and orderly and clean. The bicycle wheel in the first photo was the exception to the rule as generally this community may be poor but they are conscientious and do what they can within their limited financial resources. These people would care, just my gutt feeling. Being able to get the word out about the issues associated with this plant would not be an easy undertaking because of the language barrier.

Well, my tree didn't have any noticeable smell. It also didn't have those pink seed pods. Mine have always (this is only the 2nd year for me and the tree) been green to brown. No pink what so ever. The tree was rotted. It came up 3 ft then separated into 2 trunks. The trunk on this side was rotten. As was that bottom 3 ft area, with lots of ant and grub activity going on. I asked Dave when that rot would of caught up with me. He said tomorrow, that's why I'm here today.

FW, I have an Ostrya virginiana (hophornbeam) and a Chicago Lustre viburnum that I can plant there. I hope to add more. We cut last night till dark, ridding us somewhat of the lilacs. I've never seen such rotten wood on a lilac. Bet these things were 25 yrs old, if not more. And never been taken of. Today we're going to take em down to the ground and my dad gave me some stuff to spray on the stump to kill it. Next year we'll probably try and dig up what's left.

VV, for me, Equil had it right. It was a leaf. Might be a leaflet in your world, but in mine, it's a leaf.

Oh Gawd, you gotta love it. Even when I'm wrong I'm right! It doesn't get better than this!

I can't believe nobody is commenting on my smell photo! I laughed my butt off when I found where I had saved that image and posted it. You all are depriving me of jollies!

VV, in my world, it's a leaf. I can't make it any more simple than that. Nobody would know what I was talking about calling it a leaflet. You don't need to wish me luck. I don't hang with people who are so uptight about everything having to be exactly correct. Spelled correctly, pronounced correctly. Heck, I'm lucky if people know the common name. They would never know the botanical name, or the latin name or what ever you call it. FYI, this isn't my world, this is a cyber world, but not my world.

Equil, I showed the pic to John at the same time I saw it. We laughed our butts off. He said gross, but laughed none the less.

Terryr, I can't tell you how happy I am for you - and how jealous! We recently learned that the "junk trees" at the entrance to our driveway are ailanthus, and there are smaller versions running down the roadside in the drainage ditches (which are not draining, thanks to the blasted trees). All this thanks to Big Mama sitting proudly as a specimen in a neighbor's yard. Now that I can recognize this beast, I see it everywhere around here - in yards, along roadsides, in parks - no wonder it's on the state's invasives list.

We're still trying to figure out when and how to attack our problem. Do you happen to know what Dave used to prevent regrowth? Everything I've read about ailanthus says it root suckers/sprouts like mad when cut down.

Thank you! Dave didn't use anything. When he was taking out the stump, he kept grinding in a really wide circle around the tree. Then he said he didn't need to treat it, that with all the grinding he did, it would not re-sprout. I told him the same thing you've read, which I read also. Then he gave me his guarantee that if it did, all I do is call and he comes for free to do it again. We cut down a lot of the invasive bush honeysuckle out at my parents house. We used something, I think it's called Tardon. It's blue. Everything that we sprayed, was killed by this stuff. If you want the name for sure, I can go out there and look at the bottle. Or wait, my parents will be home tomorrow, so I can call and ask my dad to tell me what the name is.

I agree, once you recognize this tree, you see it where you never saw it before. Dave thought mine was compliments from the female tree that's behind me in the church lot. I'm thinking of writing a letter to the church and asking them to have it removed. The male is 2 doors down from us.

In between all the stuff I was doing today, I was walking in the grass. I must of pulled up a hundred little babies today alone.

I could not believe how rotted the tree was on the inside. Outside, it looked fine....well except for where I girdled it which did nothing. I asked Dave when I saw the rot, when that tree would of fallen. He said tomorrow, that's why I'm here today.:o) Our neighbors used to have one. But one day it came crashing onto their house. I can't believe the people across the street and the guy next door never got rid of theirs. Across the street is now gone, it was in the right of way for the city, so they took it down last year. But the house next to them and the church still have theirs. And I see more around town.

Call around and get quotes on the removal. It wasn't as bad as I feared. I've heard people here and other forums talk about paying over a thousand dollars to get a tree removed and the stump ground. This cost me $275. I'm a happy camper!

Gosh, I know a few large trees around town but I can't say I've seen any seedlings in the vicinity of the trees. I had no idea they were that prolific in the right conditions. Good on you for removing a large seed producer.

In our complex the native plant person planted a cottonwood which, in the last 2 years, heaved the walkways, cracked the foundations in 2 houses and spread over 30'. It became a nightmare. I've planted a 6' Davidia to replace it but the root system will be months to remove.

Can you post a photo of the Cottonwood the native plant person planted in your complex to include some nice close ups of leaves and such?

Well, I'll try and find one. The tree was removed, trunk ground down but it wasn't enough. I've pulled and dug up tons of roots. I'll try and find one in the bush for you tomorrow. My book says its a Populus balsamifera ssp. trichocarpa. There also may be rampant seedlings in the lane. It's a nice tree for acerage but not appropriate for high-density downtown living. They are also prone to a number of diseases and pests here. There are far better native trees for this situation such as Cascara, Arbutus (Madrona), Gary Oak, Grand or Nobil Fir.

I'm battling my "tree of heaven" after a number of years not quite realizing that's what I had. I didn't
cut down moma 'cause I didn't know what it was. By the time it seeded everywhere, I figured it out.
My DH cut her down & I cut down the 15-20 seedlings big enough for a saw, bagged all the seeds
and threw them away. And then I pulled out the hundreds / thousands of seedlings. How'd ya like this
spot? They are all over and I promised myself I'd never bring in any invasives. But there was one
here already. ARRRrrrgggghhh.

Tam

PS: Terry - I need you here to bat those eyes & bring a real tree surgeon to my place. I've had no luck
at all & my DH doesn't have me as benefitiary on his life insurance so he's not allowed any more
tree climbing/life risking removal exploits!

Cottonwood? I hate those trees! At another house, the only tree in the empty lots across the street was a cottonwood. I couldn't go outside when that thing was pollinating. Well I could, but I do look rather silly with a tissue stuck up my nose!

Tammy, when we moved into this house 1 1/2 yrs ago, I knew, with the exception of viburnums, I'd be all native. I have native viburnums also, but some are just ones that I love. I ripped out everything. In those included a purple loosestrife, jap barberries and burning bushes. Never in my wildest dreams did I think that tree was a tree of heaven. Not my yard! But after multiple people IDed it as such, I could no long deny it. And it had to go away. I pull up hundreds of those little seedlings on a daily basis. I did do a good thing because I feel so bad....our neighbor has them all along the foundation of their house and in the tire that holds sand for their grandkids to play in. I cut them all down and used that spray of my dads on them. Aside from you not being named as beneficiary (what's up with that? You know I had to ask), I'd be more than happy to come and bat my eyelashes to get the job done for you. How far away?? PA...that's what, the rest of IL, thru IN, then OH? Might take me awhile :)

Try to get a photo. We have had "native" plant people planting lots of things that are totally inappropriate because they are native west of the rockies. Native to the continent of North America doesn't mean it's native to the area in which one gardens but then you knew that already. Black Locust comes to mind for me. What a beast in my area.

Terry, you'd better tell your naive tree guy to mark you down in his calendar for next year. If he didn't treat the roots, he couldn't have chopped out enough of them to keep it from coming back. You will have vigorous sprouts popping up all over your yard and beyond.

"Leaflet" is an accepted term, but I always thought it was a little weenie-ish. Maybe we all oughta think up a better one, like "leaf segment" or sumthin . . .

The cottonwood Growin is talking about is the black cottonwood native to the PNW. It can make a magnificent, giant tree in the right place, and at least it is native there. But yeah, Garry oak sounds like a great idea as a replacement!

Tam, I'm glad you finally got a collar and leash on your aerial DH!

Guy S.

I know the Populus balsamifera ssp. trichocarpa he stated his book said it was is native to the Pacific Northwest. I think coincidentally t's the only Cottonwood that is native to growin's area of Northwestern Ontario although there are quite a few other species that are indigenous to the PNW. The native plant person probably didn't plant that exact subspecies of Cottonwood as how the heck does one get their hands on that type of plant material and how the heck did a Populus balsamifera ssp. trichocarpa reach maturity so fast in a complex that it has been producing rampant seedlings? I'm thinking the Cottonwood planted by the other tenant was probably the exceptionally fast growing European hybrid Lombardy Poplar or the European White Poplar which is known for causing problems with its aggressive root system and those have been for sale locally in the recent past and I think both reach maturity and set seed considerably earlier than the species that are indigenous to North America. Both Lombardy and White Poplar have naturalized throughout the PNW as well as throughout Northwestern Ontario because of their popularity. I suspect that the Eastern Poplar, although native to the continent of NA, if introduced to that area where it does not occur naturally could possibly become a problem plant. Think Bullfrog. Regardless, what ever species of Populus was planted by the native plant person, the tree needed to go. If it wasn't their native Cottonwood and there are rampant offspring all over the place after a very short period of time, then it would stand to reason the Cottonwood planted probably wasn't indigenous and is more likely to be an introduced species.

VV, I have no clue what you're talking about. Perhaps I should just tell you what I tell my sister when she feels the need to harass me because I don't do things her way....just because you're having a personal problem, doesn't mean you need to take it out on me. I'm not protesting anything. I'm merely trying like the dickens to get you to understand that botany is not a regular part of my life or my vocabulary. Or my friends, or my family....I'm truly tired of being berated and belittled by you.

Guy, I don't have a problem with the way he did it at all. If it does re-sprout, I know where he is. That's why I got the guarantee from him.

I just spent the last 2 hours in the ER, after stepping on the triangle tool you use when you strip woodwork. Thankfully I didn't need stitches, but I did have to have a tetanus shot and I do have to go on antibiotics. I'm just not in the mood for what you guys appear to think is funny. I'm not finding it funny in the least.

Oh nooo, you pulled a Lauren you poor thing. This friendly competition between you and I has simply got to stop before one of us ends up 6' under. I'll call you.

Terry, we all told you before that you're doing the wrong kind of stripping! Does this mean I have to roll you around in a wheelchair Saturday? Anyway, we're just funnin ya, and sorry we caught you in such a painful condition. Mend soon and look forward to a fun weekend!

Equil, I think Growin is in BC, not Ontario, and as I recall the only poplars native out there are aspens and black cottonwood (with balsam poplar in the mountains). Black cottonwood is common out there, reproduces like any other well-adapted native plant, and can grow very rapidly into a large tree. It's really, really easy to tell them from Lombardy or silver poplar (or eastern cottonwood), about like telling an oak from a maple. So, Growin, if it matters anymore, what poplar was it? We'll have some thin mints versus dark chocolate riding on this if Equil is man enough to stick to her guns! Hee-hee-hee!

Guy S.

Guy, if she makes it to your shin dig this coming weekend, I'll be very surprised. She was wearing a flip flop and it went right up into her foot.

You're right, he's in BC which certainly is not in Northwestern Ontario. What I should have typed is Northwestern Canada, duh. The Populus balsamifera ssp. trichocarpa is indigenous to BC but also to the PNW. Quaking Aspen is indigenous to BC and I wasn't thinking of that as a Cottonwood but it is a Populus. Black Cottonwood = Populus balsamifera, doesn't it? Eastern Cottonwoods are so common around here. I'm sort of sick of them myself.

Rampant seedlings to me sounds an awful lot like the native plant person planted Populus nigra or P. alba which people do call Poplars. I think the Italian Poplar leaf is rather attractive and almost looks a little bit like a mutant Ginkgo leaf... sort of.

You know, here we all are complaining about garbage plants and rampant seedlings. Read this thread and see if we ever want to complain about problem plants where we live again-
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/640374/

I am aghast.

Following-up on Guy's comment about finding a new term for leaflet, I've always thought that leaf/leaflet doesn't do service to a great tree like our native Kentucky Coffee Tree. Maybe we should go the other way and give the entire leaf a more muscular term like Mega-leaf, and refer to the leaflet as just leaf. Or perhaps use what I said when I first encountered it: "Good God Look At That"-leaf. ;)