Disposing of poop and dead animals....

Yes, that's right. I have some disposal questions and couldn't think of a better title. I've learned so much from the postings on DG, including a lot about diseases carried by wild animals - raccoons in particular. This new knowledge has caused me to question how to dispose of the raccoon poop frequently left on our dock (I usually just kick it into the pond) and whole carcasses (when our dogs killed a baby raccoon, DH threw the carcass into the pond for the turtles to consume). I doubt the small amount of poop makes a difference since it gets into the water by natural means anyway, but the whole raccoon is different. Should it be bagged up and carried to the trash, burned in a burn pile (we recently put an armadillo there and buzzards ate on it before it was burned), or some other means?

I know this is discusting, but I don't want to inadvertently be spreading diseases. Any suggestions?

Debra

Debra - Here is the CDC's recommendation about disposal of raccoon feces

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/baylisascaris/factsht_baylisascaris.htm

For those who steadfastly believe that raccoons are cute and harmless - read the link. They are cute but they are wild animals. Is this really worth it?

If it was me it would depend on the size of the property and how far away from the house the carcass and smell would be, and if your dogs could get into it. Mother Nature has her own ways of disposing of bodies and those creatures are part of the cycle of life also. You probably aren't going to have that many carcasses anyway. Burning it could take a really long time and several hot fires to get rid of the bones - up to you. But if it was a big one I think I'd bag it for the trash.

I found several big piles of raccoon poop on my deck again yesterday. What a bother - I bag them and throw them in the trash and then bleach the deck. Its gross - as are the habits of raccoons.

I just don't know about kicking raccoon feces into the pond. Can you search on the lifecycle of the worms they carry and find out if there's a water stage? I looked through a search and didn't find out if the eggs can survive directly in water or if they will hatch. The CDC website says they will survive in moist conditions for years.

Thanks, alyrics. That's good information. Don't think I'll be taking a blow torch to my wooden dock (LOL!), but will be removing the feces. Our dogs are usually fenced, but the lab does go for a swim in the pond from time to time and could injest it. I'm a little concerned about what they may have been exposed to when they killed the baby. They probably carried the carcass around most of the day before we came home and discovered it.

Debra

Hi, fleurs-

Yes, this is an unpleasant subject - but an important one - so I think the best bet is to just deal with it objectively. Hopefully anyone likely to be offended by the subject matter won't bother reading a thread like this.

I vote for double-bagging dead animals and disposing of them in the trash. Burning takes a super-hot fire, not likely in most burn barrels/piles, and the odor is pervasive and awful. Would not dispose of them in the pond, unless you have a really large population of scavenger turtles; bodies in the water create one of the very worst odors in the universe.

I definitely wouldn't sweep raccoon poop into the pond, especially if your dog swims there. Granted the raccoons may deposit there themselves, but no point adding to the problem. Wear rubber gloves when cleaning up their poop, bag it and trash it. Remember that the intestinal parasite is not transmitted in fresh feces, but in feces that have sat around for several weeks; so if you police the dock a couple times a week, you should not need to worry overmuch about disinfecting the great outdoors. If you want to be safe and disinfect, a solution of one ounce of bleach to a quart of water kills almost all viruses, bacteria, and parasites; but since the pond has live turtles (and presumably fish), introducing bleach to their environment is not in their best interest.

Raccoons, as a result of living around us and our pets, have become vulnerable to several canine and feline diseases (in addition to rabies, of course, to which all mammals are vulnerable). They can become infected with canine distemper and canine parvovirus, and can transmit these to dogs. If you have raccoons hanging around and have dogs, it's essential to ensure that the dogs' vaccines are all current.

Anyway, hope this helps a little-
Ruth

Hi Ruth! Thanks for your input. I knew I could depend on you for some useful advice. Alyrics link to the CDC site was very useful, also. Thanks to you both.

We have an overpopulation of armadillos and have had to deal with their carcasses also. I understand they carry leprosy. Between the raccoon parasites, leprosy, deer ticks, venemous snakes, black widow spiders, etc........it almost makes me want to stay indoors instead of enjoying the great outdoors! But not quite. :)

I'll have to add a funny story. I took a friend out to the dock around dusk to feed the catfish. She was anxiously awaiting our huge fish to come to the surface to feed on the floating food. We noticed this fish, no, turtle, no.....what is that thing just under the surface of the water? We had a big laugh when we realized it was the remains of that poor little raccoon. Eeeewwwww!

Debra

Oh, gross... That's the other problem with water disposal: takes a long long time to disappear completely.

Know what you mean about all the problems one can encounter in the great outdoors; it can be discouraging and sometimes a bit scary. But you know, statistically we're much more likely to be hit by a car than to succumb to a problem from the wildlife; so I figure the best bet is just to take reasonable precautions and go on with life. I do not envy you the armadillos or black widows, however...

Hi Ruth and Debra
Thanks for the sensible treatment of such a lovely topic. I draw the line at cleaning up carcasses already 'in process' but judging by the smell I think there's a carcass in the woods by our house. I think I know what got it - and I'm assuming it is a raccoon. We accidently left the garage door up one evening and I had been cleaning the garage and had some poisonous items that were sitting on the floor instead of put away. We have a problem with raccoons getting into the garage so we really try to keep it closed all the time.
Something had chewed into a bag of commercial grade Deadline, which has a sweetish odor. I bought that stuff from the local hosta society a couple years ago, used it once and was so impressed with how fast it killed slugs - all they had to do was touch a granule of it to their body - that I put it away and never used it again. The trouble is disposing of a poison that toxic - I hate to even toxify a landfill with it. I digress...

Ruth - why does the parasite only become transmissable after it's been sitting out for a while? I had heard from another wildlife person that the parasite can even become airborne. Makes me shudder to think of it. I bleach my deck because there have been deposits that were not solid - if you get my drift, and regardless - my kids are often outside barefoot on the deck and I need to know that the area is safe for them to walk on. I always use disposable gloves and double bag - thats a given.

BTW - used to live in NC and spent a lot of time in Hendersonville, esp liked going to the Flat Rock Theatre in the summer time.

Hi, alyrics-

The info on time involved for raccoon roundworm eggs to become infective is readily available, and in fact is on the cdc site you hyperlinked, in the section titled, "what is baylisascaris infection?". Toxoplasmosis works much the same way: feces have to be present in the environment for some time to become infective. The fact that you have children makes me fully understand your concern with the raccoons who hang around on your property; I don't have children, and I don't think Debra does, either. Both the raccoon roundworm and toxoplasmosis are transmitted by the fecal-oral route, meaning that one must contact the feces (that have been present for 2 weeks or more) with your hand, and then put your hand in or on your mouth. This is highly unlikely in adults, who understand hygiene, disease implications, etc.; but it is far too easy for children. Since both outdoor cats (who are the primary carriers of toxo) and raccoons will often use children's sandboxes for elimination, this is a very valid concern. If you'd like to tell me a bit more about where the raccoons hang out on your property, what they get into, etc., I can try to suggest deterrents that would make the place less attactive to them.

Know what you mean about haz mat disposal of garden chemicals, etc.; I have stuff that's been around for years, simply because I don't know how to safely dispose of it. Wish municipalities would make safe disposal easier/more accessible to the citizenry.

Re the presumed carcass near your house; if you know where it is, sprinkling a good quantity of lime on it would hasten the natural processes and eliminate the foul odor sooner. Not a pleasant thing to do, but the odor is at least as unpleasant.

It is pretty here in the NC mountains/foothills, isn't it? I haven't been here long, but love it.

Hey alyrics and Ruth,

Tell me more about NC (and don't worry about digressing!). I'm always interested in possible vacation spots. We don't really vacation much anymore due to the property and 3 dogs to maintain here, but I'm needing one. What's going on around November? We like to vacation in the fall and enjoy the outdoors - although I don't do any backpacking or long hikes any more. I'd love any suggestions that I could check out on the web.

Debra

November 4 - December 31
Candlelight Evenings at Biltmore Estate, Biltmore Estate (Biltmore house is decorated with the glow of candles and fireplaces and 100’s of poinsettas, many wreaths, dozens of decorated trees and miles of garland) Asheville, NC 800-543-2961 www.biltmore.com

Of course! I just Googled Hendersonville and found this. Have either of you been there for the holidays?

Debra

Oh yes, Debra, we went to Biltmore last year for the Christmas celebration, and plan to make it an annual tradition. The house is just a mindblow: more like a European castle than even a mansion in America. And the gardens!!! Though not as spectacular in November as at other seasons. From the minute you drive on to the grounds of the estate, you are presented with miles and miles of managed forest and gardens that Olmsted created out of barren, played-out farmland. I've been at every season, and there's always something new to notice. Am I raving too much? I love the place!

And if you enjoy mountains and scenic beauty, there's lot more to see in the Asheville area: the Blue Ridge Parkway, Grandfather Mountain, Chimney Rock, waterfalls, caverns, etc., etc. And a great folk art center highlighting local craftsmen, quilters, woodworkers, etc. Asheville itself is a fun small city: very eclectic. Yes, I definitely think it's worth a visit; we vacationed here five years or so ago, and jumped at the opportunity to move here when one arose.

Back to the original (and much less savory) subject of the thread. Since it was your hubby's idea to toss the little DOA raccoon into the pond, could you convince him to fish it out just before trash pickup and dispose of it there? Fair warning that this is a very unpleasant chore; but I fear it will become really unpleasant if it remains in the pond.

Ruth - that little raccoon is long gone. It's been probably 3 weeks now. I'm sure the turtles took care of it. We've killed several copperheads on the edge of the pond and they clean those up almost overnight.

We will have to visit Biltmore. I've seen magazine articles about the Christmas decorations and they look amazing. DH and I began vacationing in October several years ago and decided that's a great time to travel. Kids are back in school so tourist attractions are usually less crowded, the scenery is pretty on either coast, and sometimes we do Christmas shopping depending on where we are. We loved Maine the two years we vacationed there. L.L. Bean has their anchor store there and will ship all your purchases back home for free! That's the way to Christmas shop! We also liked Monhegan Island and Acadia National Park. We quit taking yearly vacations a few years back and I'm ready for one. Can't do October this year due to us hosting DH's high school reunion here the end of Oct. (they have a reunion every 2 years where ever the host lives - that's the only "vacations" we take anymore). Will have to be Nov. but that's a good time, too, since many places start decorating for the holidays. Hmmm, I going to start packing now!

Debra

Debra, we also love fall vacations for all the same reasons you listed. You'll miss the fall foliage in November, but the good news is you'll also miss the hordes of tourists who come specifically to see the leaves. I've always wanted to see Acadia: I'm jealous!

Acadia is gorgeous. I'd never heard loons before visiting there and will never forget that beautiful, musical, eerie, sad sound. We really enjoyed Maine. Stayed in Camden and made day trips from there. Ate lobster at least 2x a day!

OK, now I'm REALLY jealous (lol)

There are lots of B&B places around the Asheville area and many hotels but one of my very favorite places to go to anytime is the Grove Park Inn http://www.groveparkinn.com/Leisure/
A couple years ago they added a very luxurious spa that has an underground swim up grotto.

The Grove Park has these amazing huge fireplaces in the lobby of the old lodge that are 6 ft tall on the inside. They burn enormous logs in them. Its quasi rustic luxury - like the Biltmore in AZ. The original structure has a really interesting history - it was built as a gentlemen's hunting lodge in the early 1900s . http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=172758

When I lived there we used to go to high tea at the Grove Park or just for a glass of wine in the evenings. You can just settle into an old Adirondack chair and get comfortable. Even if you don't stay there - go over for a drink or a meal.

alyrics - I like! I like! more, more!

Welllll - if you like dulcimer music there's plenty of it in the mountains! And you can pan for sapphires and rubies down in Franklin, NC or go to the Cherokee Indian Reservation. Billy Graham lives outside Asheville and his cousin is the preacher at the big Presbyterian church in Asheville. There's a lot to do. Any time of year is interesting to visit the Biltmore House and gardens but if I had my choices I would go to see the Christmas decorations and I would go when the wisteria are blooming. They have the absolutely most amazing wisteria arbors I've ever seen - breathtaking. Wellllll, I guess they are rivaled by azalea season - NC is blanketed with azaleas.

Have you seen Bellingrath gardens in Mobile, AL during peak azalea season? They are awesome! You've really tweaked my interest and I'll have to do some research this weekend on Grove Park. Thanks so much for sharing.

Debra

http://z.about.com/d/spas/1/0/S/5/1/grvpk43.jpg

Wowy wow wow wow! That looks like a great spa. Can just imagine myself there..........deep sigh................

This is the nicest spa I've ever experienced - not that I've experienced very many. This was my first experience at any spa and was spoiled. Haven't found (actually can't afford) anything like this today. (My visit was a corporate promo package at no cost to me) Movie stars are supposed to frequent La Costa but we didn't see any. A waitress did tell us a story about John Wayne lifting her up into the air when she refused to serve him a beer in one of the all health food - no alcohol spa restaurants. He got his beer.

www.lacosta.com

May I interject?
How cold is it in NC in November? How much does the sun shine? I like to travel then, too, but DH doesn't because it's not always perfect weather.

Depends on the region in NC, of course; the eastern part of the state has an entirely different/warmer climate than here in western NC. The microclimate here is considered to be temperate rain forest, but November is usually not one of the really rainy months (monsoon season is now, July through Sept.). If last year was typical, November brings nippy early mornings, but it warms up to the 50's or so during the day. Neither bitter cold nor really hot, a nice time of year here in the mountains.

Perfect vacation weather!

Yes, and dead animals don't smell as bad. But I need sunshine.

LOL! Good point, 4paws. I require sunshine, also. Most of the time I believe a vacation requires water and sand with lots of sun, but have learned to enjoy Oct/Nov vacations in chilly weather also.

Edited to add: All that lobster makes up for some sun and sand.

This message was edited Sep 13, 2006 7:12 AM

Yes, lobster....mmmm....
I like eating very much. I'm the same way - I want water and sun, sand doesn't matter, but it's good. My husband likes to walk around in galleries (yucko!) and hates sun.

Fall is the sunniest time of the year in New England...few tourists, no mosquitos, and lobster is going for $5.50-6.50 a pound (and up) uncooked, clams $3 a pound...to keep this on topic, lobster bait really stinks....

http://davesgarden.com/place/t/649707/

Oh my gosh!!!!! Claypa, your link makes me ache to visit Maine again. I posted some of my favorite memories on your thread. Thanks so much for sharing it.

Debra

lol
Love the way you brought your post back to the topic of the thread, claypa!

I say, "Let's leave stink'n dead animals and go to claypa's thread in Maine"! Much more enjoyable!

Debra

LOL Ah, let's just go to Maine, never mind the thread ! I was just reading this thread again, and I have a couple thoughts. Depending on how big your pond is, a little diluted bleach is probably not that big a deal. Another thing about the disease- look at the odds- pretty darn slim. It always drives me nuts when people cluck like chicken little about rabies! rabies!rabies! and bats. How many cases of rabies in humans were caused by bats last year? If it was more than 4 or 5, I'd be amazed. And the bats probably caught it from being bitten by domestic cats. And bats are very important animals, and everybody's afraid of them... But I avoid cooties in all its forms, human or animal, wild or domestic. Depending on where a dead animal is, it might be better not to mess with body bags and all, dump a bag of lime on it and get away

claypa -

I'm right there with ya. I'm not overly concerned, but when I learned raccoons carry parasites and armadillos carry leprosy, it made me think about how to dispose of them. Don't get close enough to worry about rabies.

I did request that DH not throw them in the pond anymore just for general gross out purposes. He had already taken the armadillo to the burn pile (we're talking a small mountain in the middle of an empty lot) where the buzzards ate most of it before the rest was burned. I imagine that's what will happen with any in the future. Just wish we didn't even have the problem, but we've been taken over by a bumper crop of armadillos this year!

Debra

Claypa, the rate of human rabies death from bats is even smaller than you suggested: maybe one death every four or five years. I think bats just generally creep some people out, but they are awesome creatures and the world's best mosquito control device (not to mention that the fruit bats are critically important pollinators).

Fleurs, please keep those armadillos right there in AR; I know they'll get here someday, but I'm in no rush...

I suspect our previous visitor has been replaced by a new one. Our dogs started barking again last night. DH couldn't find anything, but there are new "diggings" in the front beds this morning. Guess we will have to keep the shotgun at ready if we are going to get any sleep. Why can't they just stay out in the woods so they don't have to be shot? They don't seem to listen to reason.......

We have lots and lots of bats. It's so fun to watch them dart around after bugs and mosquitos. Sometimes I'll throw a small rock into the air to see them track it. Remember as a kid throwing softballs into the night sky for the same reason. One bat followed the ball as it was returning to earth and got way to close for comfort. Talk about screaming kids! We didn't do that anymore.

Debra

Would you prefer a bear?
:-)
That's what keeps our dogs crazy at night. Sometimes the fox wakes them up too, but no armadillos, and I like bats.

My cousin is heading off to Maine on vacation tomorrow. Hope she brings me a lobster.

UGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!! I realize this is very selfish, but I AM SO JEALOUS OF YOUR COUSIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Debra

My hands are still shaking...........I hate doing this!!!!!!!!!!! A dang armadillo was walking down our driveway in broad daylight. My DH was not here and my shotgun is locked in the vault. So it was up to me to shoot the thing with a Glock. Well, try anyway. I shot high 4 times. On the 5th shot he jumped in the air then ran off and down into his critter hole. I think I hit him but am not sure. Our neighbors have killed 5 so far. I don't like shooting them, but they are just taking over around here!

Debra

Debra, that had to be hard. My husband has guns and is off hunting right now - but I couldn't shoot anything. I could suggest you adopt a posse of dogs. That'll keep them off your property.

I'm a bit jealous of my cousin, too!

4paws,

We have 3 dogs and they would kill it if they could, but they are fenced in and don't run loose where they can get to it. That's why they bark so much when it's within their sight.

You reminded me our our armadillo experience last summer. Our dogs were barking and DH went out to let them out of their fenced yard and come into the house. There is a covered porch and patio between the house and their yard. DH didn't look to see what they were barking at before opening the gate. At the exact second he opened the gate, I turned on the porch light and saw an armadillo running the length of the porch. From that point everything started moving in slow motion - I was waving my arms and screaming no! no! - I swear it came out like those distorted sounds in the movies.....noooooooooooo, nooooooooooooo.........and my arms seemed to be moving one frame at a time - it was sureal. Well, all three dogs came charging after the poor armadillo. We were screaming and trying to throw dogs into the house. By the time we got the dogs in the house, the armadillo had run up the stairs into the fenced yard! I could tell it was badly wounded and in shock and I was begging DH to get his gun and shoot it. He tried, but it came out of it's shock long enough to run zig-zag fashion and somehow escape under the fence, running into the woods.

Living out here in the country is really nice - but not for the squeemish!

Debra