Back from the dead?

Hello,
This is my first time in this forum and I have an odd situation with what I "think" could be a peony.
I have two raised stonework planters on either side of my front door that are about 10 ft long, 2 ft wide and 4 ft tall. They were installed about 5 yrs prior to me purchasing this home last year. In the corner of one of them, I noticed last year, the remnants of a plant that looked dead. I wanted to dig it out at the time but before I did, I asked the neighbour if she knew what it could have been. She said she thought it was a peony or rose that the previous owner had put in immediately after the planters were installed but said she never saw the plant again after that year. She chalked it up to the fact the lady would plant things and let them die due to neglect (they didn't get on very well,lol).

So I decided to plant asiatic lilies in the raised planter and dig out the dead thing at a later time. Obviously, it's still there or I wouldn't be here asking, what is the chances of this plant coming back to life after 5 yrs of being a no show?? Are peonies known to do this?
Please have a look at the photo and let me know if you think that the sprout shown at all resembles the start of a peony. If it is, can this plant be saved????

Here's to hoping and thanks in advance,
Erynne

P.S.....please excuse the mess; everything collects in this corner (and I'm too lazy to clean it!)

Remarkable!! It indeed is a peony.I don't know how common it is to see that happen after all this time.You should be able to move it out of the planter and transplant in your yard.This is the best time of year to transplant peonies.It should come back in the spring.Good Luck! Nancy

Thank You Nancy! I have to read up more about peonies now that I unexpectedly have one.
Should I divide out this section with the new growth somehow? Is this anything like dealing with hostas? If it is, then I'll be comfortable with performing a little surgery, lol.

Tks,
Erynne

Erynne not really like dealing with hostas which seem to take any amount of punishment anytime of the year. I would dig as big a section around that new growth as possible so you can see if there are any eyes in there, Seems rather strange for a hosta to put up new growth this time of year. Be prepared for hefty roots. Once you get it out of the ground try to get a section with several eyes (if there are any) If you only have the one new growth bud I wonder if it will in fact survive?
In fact if it were mine I would leave it there for this winter and see what happens in the spring and look at moving it next fall. Seems to me it will be pretty fragile just now.

What was growing there? All the stems?

carolvan

Hi Carol,
This new growth is very tender indeed. The stems that you see must've been from the original plant is all I can figure but I can't say for sure. This planter is under an eave, and must be purposely watered by hose because barely any rain water would ever reach it, especially in the spot where the peony is right now. Even when it snows, the peony wouldn't have received any cover. I replaced alot of the soil in there with good stuff, fertilized somewhat and always keep it moist now. Maybe this sparked something in the peony?
So, if I were to leave it, would I have to ensure good snow cover for insulation?

Thanks,
Erynne


This message was edited Aug 31, 2006 12:17 PM

It's definitely a peony! ;) Peonies are tough as nails. I, too, would leave it for this year and see what it does next year. From your pictures it looks like there was growth earlier (all the brown stems)? Clip back any old dead growth and leave her alone. Peonies do not bloom well if they don't have adequate moisture or if their eyes are deeper than two inches under the dirt, so that could be part of the problem. They also like to have at least 6 hours of sun a day. Keep us posted, ok?

Diann

Erynne Peonies are normally very hardy - There was a peony planted in front of my parents home which had been built in the 1920's and as far as I know it is still there - in Saskatoon! I never give my new peonies any protection.
Yes maybe the new soil and watering put a spark of life in it! Maybe you could mulch around it this winter and as you say put snow on there to protect it till spring. Honestly I am not sure - I have peonies all over the yard some right against the foundation, some right out in the open. They do fine with whatever water nature and I give them and I do not mulch although I shovel snow from a patio onto the bed against the house to try and keep it frozen a bit longer.

If those stems are from the original you should clip them all off (didnt see that you had only been there a year!) - you need to cut them off every year in the fall. .

What you might try doing is cleaning off some of the soil down an inch or two and see what is there. If there are new eyes you will see tiny pink/red buds which should be about 2 inches below the surface. The plant has obviously grown in the near past with all those stems. If you added new soil perhaps you have buried it a bit deeper?

carolvan

Hi Carol & Diann,
Barely any sun gets in this corner at all, so either way I will have to move it to a sunnier locale.
When I get home tonight, I will gently rake the area by hand and remove the stems to check for eyes. When I'm done, I'll post another pic to get your opinions. There's a bunch of creepy crawlies that hide in that corner so I've never been inclined to get too close,lol.
Will peonies grow in clay if I amend the area somewhat?

Carol, I can't believe that peonies live that long! Wow!

Erynne

Erynne, Peonies can live for 50-60-70 years or more if left undisturbed. If you decide to move it, now is the time to do it. Regarding clay, it would be best if you could dig a really nice large hole and amend it with lost of compost, at least that's what I've been told one should do.. I have really good black Iowa dirt and so I'm not really going to be much help about clay.

I have to go outside and play now...

Laters

Diann

I have a little garden book put out by a local author(Donna Balzer) and in answer to the question about transplanting peonies she says - 'In the fall, preferably only every 40 years"

As for the clay well I would do as Dian suggests. And it should have about 6 hours of sun a day.

Erynne there was (?is) a Govt Agricultural Station at Beaverlodge ,Alberta which is up near Grande Prairie started about 1915 and the guy who ran it planted peonies and I understand hybridized many and apparently some of his plants are still there.It is probably one of, if not the longest lived perennials , easy to look after and has beautiful manners except if you get a heavy rainfall when they are in full bloom in which case the blooms may end up on the ground they are so heavy!

Keep us posted. I love peonies, have about 15 and a couple more coming soon.
Here is a pic of one I have on order.

carolvan

I stake my peony with those funky little grow through grids and I don't have any problem with them ending up on the ground. But if you decide to really get into peonies, check out Hollingsworth Peonies in Missouri, he has what he refers to as "best landscape" peony. These have nice erect stems and don't flop in the rain. :)

Diann

http://www.hollingsworthpeonies.com/

Sorry it took me ages to get back.....soccer mom duty called tonight!
I never really considered peonies for my garden before now and it seems that I'm easily enabled after reading all this info. So is there a nice white peony that anyone would recommend. I've been wanting something that has noticeable white blooms for one of my beds and it seems a peony might be the ticket.
Carol, what a riot of colour in that photo.....oh boy, I'm going to be in trouble if you keep this up!
Is that really accurate info do you think Carol? After 40 years!!! I guess if I'm going to plant one, I better make certain about the spot. I have a tendency to want to move things around alot....furniture, plants...you name it!
Thanks for the link Diann....I open it up and am greeted by a poufy yellow beauty....just the encouragement I needed.....really thanks....next year when my I'm broke and starving, will you feed me?Lol!
All kidding aside, I have some disgusting photos from the "clean up". I tried to see where the new growth was attached and without any effort on my part, this whole piece broke away. It's like it was no longer attached to the mass and I have no idea what to think of it. To my eyes, this thing just looks ill and nasty but it has roots!
There's a couple of eyes?? that have a reddish and green (wick) appearance. I think something is alive on the opposite side of the mass too!

Close up of the other part where I think there is "life"

So what is this nasty thing? I've put it in a pot for now until it's fate is determined.

Roots on the nasty. Please advise.....what would you do??

Thank you!

Erynne,Oh yes you have eyes there and alot of them!!!.Looks like you got yourself a nice peony bush in the making.From the looks of all those eyes she should take off really well next spring! You will have to post a picture of it in bloom next spring so we can all see her beauty! I am really curious now as to what type it is?? Nancy

Erynne,The nasty you broke off is part of the peony root.If I were you I would plant it in the ground somewhere and see if it comes back too next spring. How exciting for you!! Nancy

Nancy,
I have alot of eyes for real? Omigosh, omigosh! I only could see three but then again I'm not used to peonies. Too much excitement in the garden these days.....first I had a Monarch camp in my backyard and now I might have my own peony that I didn't know I had in the first place!
The neighbour across the street said she thought it was pink so maybe it's just a common one but that's just fine by me :o)
I'm starting to wonder if this peony was buried way too deeply plus having all kinds of organic matter on top didn't help....hmmm.

Thanks again!
Erynne

Yep Erynne lots of eyes.Hopefully Carol or Diann will pop back in on this thread and give you proper instructions on what to do next, just how deeply to cover it and any other tips you need. I am truly so excited for you! 1st a Monarch and now a Peony.Life is pretty great huh? I share in your joy.All in nature amazes me.Take care! Nancy

Thanks Nancy.....I hope I have bragging rights but these were some of my visiting Monarchs, however briefly....

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/644954/

Oh yeah, that's a peony! and yes, you do have eyes!! ;) Now, find a nice sunny place, amend the heck out of your clay soil, and plant that puppy with those eyes no more than two inches deep. Mark the area so you will know where to look next spring. Peonies start out as little red shoots out of the ground and grow and grow and become a nice bush and then bloom ;)

Here is a white I have called "Silver Shell" it's one of my favorite peonies.

Diann

Exciting Erynne! Follow Dian's advice! You may find it will split when you dig it up - try to get 3-5 eyes in a split. Just make sure when you replant that it is where you want it. And be sure the eyes are about 2 inches below the sopil surface.
I have a white Japanese single that I am debating moving because it is in a spot that used to be very sunny when it was planted.and now is very shady. So after this weekend ( busy with dog trials) I will make a final decisiion whether to move it.
There is an old white called Festiva Maxima that I like (but dont have) it has flecks of red.(pic below) There are a couple in an old house down the street from me and I have permission to dig it up. Just cant figure out where I will put it!

Diann what I do with my peonies is there is a large round grid in place (permanently about 24 inches off the ground and they grow up thru that and then when the buds start to open I place several supports which are sort of half circles on 48inch legs around the plant to support - they are largely invisible and do a nice job of making sure nothing ends up on the ground!

Erynne here are the addresses of 2 peony sellers near you - one in Ontario, one in PQ.
http://www.paeonia.com/home.htm

http://www.peonygarden.com/Default.htm

This is very encouraging news and thanks Carol, Nancy & Diann for your help with this peony. I like both of those whites! I can see that when I make my decision on which white to get, it's going to be difficult. Those links are very useful Carol (and tempting).

If I were to order by mail, what should I be expecting? For instance, would the peonies most likely be at a stage of development where they would bloom for me next season?

I'm going to have a look for the peony cages you ladies mentioned at my local nursery. They tend to put garden accessories on sale later in the season to clear them out, so I'll be ready just in case for next year.

Carol, you have permission to go dig up those lovely peonies?? Awesome....you best go then and get 'em! You're just going to have to "find" a spot, lol. Is it an abandoned house or just uninhabited for the time being or they just don't want them anymore??? What luck you have Carol!

Well, you know what I'll be doing this weekend.

Have yourselves a great one!

Erynne

If you mail order you will get a root with 3-5 or maybe even 7 eyes and it will be in the fall. (I am expecting mine to arrive soon) . It probably would not flower for a couple of years. My two that I put in last fall are about 18 inches high this year, maybe there might be a flower next year. On the other hand if you are splitting a mature plant it just might flower the next year - I have had this happen also.

The grid support I use is from Lee Valley Tools and comes in different sizes with different height legs. The half circle bloom support is something made locally but Lee Valley has something similar.

Here is one I planted last year - called Green Halo.

Keep us posted!

carolvan

Hi Carol,
Oooooh, Green Halo really is a lovely green! I've been looking at all the different peonies this weekend and it's mind-boggling to say the least. I don't know if I like the singles with that simple and classy look or the doubles that look all ruffly and glamorous.
I didn't get a chance to transplant my unknown peony this weekend due to the rainy conditions here. I did manage however to plunk a hosta in the ground because that's quick and easy for me, lol. I just hate gardening in wet!!!
Hopefully, holiday Monday will be a nice day so I can move her then.

Well, back to looking at peonies and seeing which white one I will be settling on (this isn't easy).

Erynne

Ah, welcome to the Peony addiction. :) Check out the the Japanese and bomb types of peony. I'm quite partial to Raspberry Sundae. ;)

Diann

Oh yeah, Raspberry Sundae is special!

A cheap alternative to those really nice metal rings is chicken wire. Cut it to the size you want, fold under the sharp ends and place over your bush when it's just a few inches out of the ground. It will go up some and then stop and hold your bush up nicely. A Master Gardener friend uses this all the time.

Oh Raspberry Sundae....I could see why you're partial to it Diann!
Here's my plan of action because there's too many that I like.....I'm going to buy one this year, in addition to the one I already have, and see how they do in my garden over winter and into next growing season. If they do okay, then I will pick up a few more next autumn.

So far the white winner is going to be....... "Gardenia"! It's been around for some time and I'm more comfy with plants that are tried and true.

If all goes well, then I'll be looking at Clemenceau (or is it Clementeau, saw two spellings) for sure for next year and that Raspberry Sundae, oh I would like that one as well thank you!

Here's another source for peonies in Canada. They ship to the US as well:
http://www.whitehouseperennials.com/03catalogue/03fr.htm
I think I will buy from this lady because I've heard good things and as well, the Watchdog shows a good rating.

Kooger, I have a bunch of chicken wire underneath my deck that I was gonna chuck out. Thanks!

Erynne

Erynne, remember, peonies are not short term gratification plants. They can sometimes take a couple of years to bloom. They like to settle into there spot. So, above all, don't be ripping them out if they don't bloom for you next spring when you think they should.

I admire you restraint. Only one. I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it. ;) I'm cruising the peony web sites now, checking out new ones I think I must have....

This last year was not a good peony year for me. It was too wet and then it got hot and steamy and then wet again. *sigh* There is always next year. :)

Here is a picture of my Raspberry Sundae. ;)

Ok, I just bought "Fantastic" and "Orange Lace" from the New Peony Farm in Minnesota. New Peony Farm is what is left of the Brand's peony farm.

Diann

Hi Diann,
Oh I know not to expect blooms next year and I completely understand this is a plant for the patient in the beginning (with 4 kids my patience is wearing pretty thin but there's plenty left in the plant dept,lol).
I could at least expect some foliage though as a determing factor as to the overall health of the peony right?
My restraint comes from my cautious nature. I just want to make certain of things before I dive in and if all goes well, then into the deep end I go! Just look what happened when I realized I could grow hostas....I've got 80 and I've only been gardening for one year exactly. Bad things happen when I take a shine to something ;)
I'm already imagining a row of peonies in a sunny spot in front of my greenhouse...yikes!

Erynne

BTW, Raspberry Sundae and Green Halo are on my wish list for next year...thanks for the enabling you two....now stop please, have mercy......

Diane I planted RS a few years ago - my mothers memorial shrub because she loved raspberries and ice cream. I have always been disappointed in the color - this year somewhat more pink but never as nice as yours. So, I went out and bought another one- Raspberry Ice. It is gorgeous! Most of the flowers have more white tips than this one.

Erynne, yes you will get foliage and you may just get a bloom or two, but you will definately get foliage. :)

80 hosta in one year, that's a healty addiction. :) The peony vendors are really going to love you once you get going. :)

Fancy, I really think RS takes quite a while to settle in before it finally colors up and starts blooming the way the pictures show. Give it time. :) However, that Raspberry Ice of yours is nothing to sneeze at. :) Very nice. :)

Diann

Diane the RS was planted in 1999! This is a pic this year and it looks pretty good but the color faded substantially as it opened.
Ah well it is still pretty!

Yeah, I think mine was planted in 96 or so... I was on a peony buying binge about then. :) Really, this is the first year I noticed it looking really good. Give her time. :) I planted a lot of them in 96 through 98.... then I slacked off for a while and started up again about 2000 and slacked off for the past year or so... Hostas and daylilies caught my attention a bit more than usual....

Diann

Erynne did you move that peony?

carolvan

Hi Carol,
No, I didn't....it's still waiting on me,lol.
I had to re-think it's permanent location and today I managed to amend an area for it. Just as I finished preparing the site, it began to rain, hence my now being on the computer. The little piece of peony with the growth on it, is still alive in a pot and the foliage has actually gotten bigger! I don't get it; why is it growing now? Shouldn't it be sleeping?

Erynne

Guess what?! As I was digging out the peony to be moved, I found a label way under the dirt and even though the print is pretty wore off, I could still make out the name as "Sebastian Maas". It's going to be a pink peony.....yippeee! I so hope this peony makes it through.

Saying little Peony prayers,
Erynne

Good Luck with your peony! Erynne! And maybe with a little "luck";-) it will bloom a little next year. I was very fortunate ~ I planted this one last fall. The only problem is...I don't know it's name. My cousin gave it to me & she didn't know either. BUT yours has a name. :-D

Joey

Joey, your peony is such lovely a classic white! That's what I want for beside my Japanese Maple. I tried to order from someone up here but later got an email saying they were out of stock on the one I wanted :(
I hope you get a name for yours at some point soon.
I had found plant tags before, that were buried in my planters for annuals/perennials that the previous owner must've grown. I'm so glad this peony tag was there!! It doesn't really matter what colour the peony was going to be because I would've kept it and doted on it anyway,lol.
In addition to digging up plant tags, I've found all kinds of stuff buried on this property, ie...coins, baby spoon, broken glassware, 3 forks, Christmas light bulbs, watch face, cufflink, yarn, panty hose and a dinky car. When I was making the hole to transplant the peony into, I found a butane silver lighter!! Weird eh?

Thanks for the "luck",
Erynne :o)

Joey, you really should go look at the cultivar data-sheets on the Heartland Peony web page. I did a quick search and came up with a white bomb peony named Eastern Star... Now, whether that is the one you have or not, I don't know, but its fun to wander around in there and look things over..

Diann

http://www.peonies.org/