Bloodgood vs Dark Red ?

Hi, have a Bloodgood and a ( this is what the tag says ) " Dark Red Japanese Maple, acer palmatum Trompenburg " . Both are in pots and are about 2 ft. tall. One I would like to plant in an area as a specimen and would like it to be no more than 5 ft tall. and preferably slow growing. Which of the 2 would be the better choice. Zone 5, full sun. Could not seem to find much on the " Dark Red ". Thanks, kdcon

Both should do OK in full sun although expect some leaf burn and greeening in especially hot weather...You do have one problema neither is going to be easy to keep 5 feet tall without yearly hacking ...both are upright and even in your area I would expect eventual growth to 10-15feet...but if you keep em trimmed every year ..it is possible although I don't know how great they will look ... the Blood is hardier over the winter so I would put the tromp in a protected place ...it may or may not make it in your area...I guess the same goes for the Blood ...you are pretty far out of JM zone!!.. David

Thanks Dave, that is exactly what I needed to know. Figured out the the name Trompenburg was the cultiver and not Dark Red and was able to pull up some info. Have a couple more spots I can put them where growth wont be an issue and 1 will afford the Tromp some protection. Got them both on sale for $20 per and figured I would give them a try. Lots of mulch after the ground freezes. Thanks again,, kdcon

I would put the mulch out before the ground freezes like NOW!!! 3" to 4" thick and keep it away from the trunk. I have all of mine in 2 ft chicken wire enclosures with 3/8" x 4 ft rebar to hold it around the tree and inside the wire..You can just push the rebar in the ground or hammer it and wrap thje CW from a roll around the rebar and cut with a tin snip past the starting point and bend cut ends into the wire holes the only tool needed is a tin snips and YOU..REALLY EASY ...and then you can add mulch and it also keeps it in place all winter AND keeps critters away during winter and spring ..also give a place for snow to mound in for additional protection ...after the tree is esablished you can take it off or leave it ..it is a bit unsightly IMHO but it works and is CHEAP and EASY to do about 5 mins. pr tree..David Oh thats a great price especially for the tromp!!!

This message was edited Aug 27, 2006 1:45 PM

Why would you mulch now ? I had already planted them in large pot, 10 gal. 2 mo. ago just to get them out of the small ones they came in. Have kept them well watered all summer and they are doing well. Our first good freeze here is prob mid to late Oct. . Like your method w/ the CW & #3 rebar. Have approx. 15 tons down at my shop. I am a concrete contractor, how convenient ! Will make those cages for alot of things now that you put the idea in my head. Have 3 Inaba Shidare in ground for a yr. and this spring they budded right out then I think our normal late frost hurt them. Had to prune 2 back pretty good but hte 3rd. fared better. Also had alot of winter sunburn w/ them and my roses. The roses I know had way more than normal as I have grown them for yrs.. Had scant snow cover and warm temps ( up to 65 deg. F ) in late Jan.. Everyone thinks this is great untill they see the results on the landscape come spring. So real curious as to why you would do the heavy mulching now ? Thanks for sharing as I know little bout the Jap. maples. kdcon

I didn't realise they were in pots ....I thought you were gonna plant them out?? then the mulch helps with both summer water retention ( you DON'T have to water as often and winter cold protection. If you are gonna keep them in pots your winter protection may be differnt ...most store them in a garage or unheated building away from windows..watering maybe once a month until spring ...but some folks do leave them outside ...most of them bury the pots in the ground and mulch on top to add protection left above groung unprotected even in 5's they may not make it..let us know whether you are keeping potted or planting out...david

Will prob winter them in the pots as I have some hardscape work to do 1st in the spots they are going. Last winter I just buried them in the mulch pile right to the top. Dug them out this spring ( after all frosts ) and they were already budding out. I mulch everything I put in the ground and also a couple of in. in the container stuff. I use pine needles around the roses and reg plants and Bark mulch around the trees w/ a ring of stone around so the bark mulch doesn't touch the trunk. The pine needles dont hold water them self thus preventing a mold/mildew enviroment.
I guess I dont understand how putting the pot in an unheated building would do anything other than offer sun scald protection. They would still freeze solid. OK I think I'm getting it. Freeze solid but stay that way due to no sun thaw and refreeze which heaves the roots. Thats why I wait till they are froze good before mulching. Just moving them into the garage would be so much easier. Why or what would be the advantage of watering a frozen plant ? Thanks, kdcon

actually the idea of putting inside in unheated space is to keep it a few degrees warmer but away from windows so it doesn't bud out too early...usually making the differnce in it's survival some even wrap their pots in insulation ( inside the shelter)...but you are already burying the pot in mulch or dirt SO there is no need to do so and that should afford probably better insulation although a bit more exposure to other elements ..IE freezing rain , wind...etc. Watering is only if they are NOT frozen solid just so they don't totally dry out ...and not to often so they don't rot!! From many that have posted over that past year or so here and at the garden web ...both methods are used and work alhough most bring 'em in the unheated spaces ...I just didn't realise the scope of your process
As I said you are REALLY pressing the zones of survivability for AP JM's so whatever you do to afford the best protection is probably the way to go AND ( I WILL CAPITALIZE THIS) WITH YOUNG PLANTS YOU ARE LIKELY QUADRUPLING THE RISK WITH THEIR SMALL ROOT SYSTEMS AND GENERALLY MORE FRAJILE STRUCTURE I aways suggest buying older more developed trees although i am just guessing yours are young )...David

This message was edited Aug 28, 2006 8:48 AM

This message was edited Aug 28, 2006 8:54 AM

Well if they make it thru the 2nd winter in the ground they go. The 2 places they will go are shelterd with full sun early to late. I think this lets me hedge the zone a bit. I have roses that are zone 6 and as long as I mulch them up about a foot after ground freeze they do well. Alot of cane dieback but they take right off every spring. Anyway the spots the JM's are going are very accessable if they decide to go belly up. I see quite a few ( prob Bloodgoods ) around that have done well for yrs.. all seem to be in a sheltered spot . Who knows, w/ global warming we might be growing our own banannas soon. Thanks, kdcon

kdcon - I want to be honest with you.

I don't believe that you are going to be able to get these trees to stay under 5 feet in the ground (or perhaps even in a pot). Upright trees are very hard to keep short without making them ugly. I'm struggling to keep a Butterfly (10 feet supposedly) to 8 feet and it's a real struggle. Perhaps since you have enough energy to bury pots in the winter you might want to keep both of them in boxes although they will both need big ones.

I'd plant them someplace where they can be the trees they want to be and buy some smaller cultivars for your small space.

Doss, I have just the spots for them where they can grow as big as they want. Now that I know how big they can get. Really glad I checked here before putting them in. Would not have been pretty 5/6 yrs. later to try and move them. The 2 Inaba S. I dug up this spring and temp potted are doing nicely so I will prob use them for the tight spots. Thanks, kdcon

Be carefull with the inabas mine has had extensive leaf burn the past wo years in mostly full sun...in ME the sun is not so bright so you may be ok ...but be carefull a little afternoon shade would help...I live with mild leaf burn on many of my full sun plants even bloodgoods especially on younger plants and it doesn't bother me but the inaba burnt susbstatially...therefore i am mentioning it here ...David

The first Inaba's I planted 3 yrs. ago did leaf burn. Not bad just tips. Lost them due to some bad advice on watering. The ones that are there now I have been very faithfull to make sure they are watered long and deep. These have no leaf burn but did " green " up some this summer and they are in full sun in a raised planter. I still plan to use the rebar/ CW suggestion to help w/ winter wind and tender new spring growth and late frost probs. Thanks, kdcon

Glad that your trees have a good home. Otherwise they would have driven you crazy. I'm in the situation right now where I'm having to move trees that are getting significantly bigger then promised. But I think that they grow bigger here than they do in Maine.