Our county road crews were out this week destroying vegetation. They've adopted a practice of running a bush hog mower from a controllable arm that swings up from the side of the tractor, enabling them to cut vertically. Creates an instant eyesore. This isn't too despicable when they're chawing up Lonicera maackii and boxelders as in this picture...
Scott
This message was edited Aug 25, 2006 1:24 PM
This message was edited Aug 25, 2006 2:37 PM
...but look what they did to this guy's pine trees!
Scott
One more shot to show the shredded stubs they left of what were branches. Not a great shot, but just imagine the ugliest type of cut and you've got it right.
Scott
Almost guaranteed to spread diseases from one tree to the next, too.
Maybe hang some steel fencing wire in the outer branches before they come along?
Resin
If its a fail mover Nylon string/rope is always fun as it gets clogged in the mower and is really difficult to shift.
Dear Hearts, If you lived in Alabama, this would be old news and common practice. They justify it by saying it is the most efficient and cost effective way of clearing the right of way and ensuring reasonable visibility along rural thoroughfares. It is mighty ugly. Such is life.
Same excuse from Highway Dept in the North country. You have seen the Pines, imagine a wall of one sided Balsam or Spruce. Ken
They did the same thing here about a month ago. I kept hearing this loud noise and couldn't figure out where it was coming from, I later found out it was this brush hog tractor.
I'll play the devil's advocate here and say you can't blame the guys doing it- they have a job and a boss to answer to - you can blame the system and lack of communication to homeowners on how to stay within their rules. I do have to ask how close those pines are to the road? - they sure look close.
You guys are all missing the point (opportunity). This service is performed by the Public Works road crews to stir the juices of all those neophyte amateur arborists and plant artists who have no experience pruning.
Now, you have miles of plants on which to practice making proper pruning cuts (to correct all the jagged edges). Imagine the "becoming one with the tree" Zen-like trance you could embrace as you worked your way down that line of pines, or the glee (as expressed by Defective) at applying Roundup or Garlon 4 to the fresh cut stumps of the invasives.
Look for that silver lining (which is most likely an Elaeagnus).
I'm with Al on this one. That "wonderful" pruning job could be fixed, at least healthwise, with correct cuts anyway. I think we all know it had to happen sometime. Goodness, the right of ways in Minnesota stretch a LOT farther than that from the road. The owner should feel lucky to plant there in the first place. Still, those are about the UGLIEST, and NASTIEST cuts I've seen.
Rick
I just wish that if trees are in the public right of way and pose a threat to traffic or utility lines, that they would remove them entirely rather than annually mangle the hell out of them. As Resin pointed out, this is practice can spread pathogens wherever there is road. Imagine how far and wide these bushhoggers could spread Oak Wilt in one summer.
Scott
I don't know any technical terms here, but they have something they attach to trains around here. Then the train moves very slowly and it chews/half cuts the plants off. Looks very nasty when they're done. They also do that along the highway with the brush hog. I agree with Guy, instead of pruning a big half moon out of the tree, take down the whole tree. The city did that to a tree across the street and it is ugly. The wires were there I'm sure before the tree was planted so somebody should of known better. Look up for crying out loud.
Touché, Dec - they should be removed completely.
They do this around by me too. I take such care spraying my tools with Lysol and dipping them in bleach and then I see something like this and there's not much I can do. They did it to the front of my yard a few years ago. I was the only yard in the subdivision that doesn't have lawn to the curb. I liked it that way but now I have a 15' band of weed grass where they came through. I had to go out and remove the trees they hacked. I was not happy about what they did given I live on a dead end cul de sac and nobody drives down here but the delivery people and us for all practical purposes.
Just a question: Are you willing to pay higher taxes for the government to put more human beings on the ground with chainsaws? I can assure you the folk in Alabama are not. When a driver allows the front wheel of a vehicle slip off the side of a rural road, they need an opportunity to right the vehicle. I'll take the safety of a human being over the looks of ravaged Mimosa or Hackberry any day. I agree that in a perfect world the trees would be taken down in a more aesthetically pleasing way, but in Alabama it's not quite perfect yet. I just can't get too excited about this. The property owners don't care - I don't either.
A few years ago we vacationed in Lexington, KY, and I couldn't believe how close trees (big trees) were allowed to grow near the road. This was especially common on the rural roads (I think they're called pikes down there). Now that I think about it, perhaps its because they don't have the winter weather or the number of drunks on the road we have around here. If you haven't already heard, Milwaukee was just named the "drunkest" city in the US, with Minneapolis coming in second. Now that's something to be proud of!!
The progression in this township and county seems to be to pave, either by seal coat or black top, so people's cars don't get dusty and they can get where they are going faster thus the speed limit signs (always tasteful against a wilderness backdrop). State DOT mandates a wider roadbed and clear "line of sight" for paved roads and, as stated, economics mandates the use of the "tree and brush wacker". This is "progress" in our township, county, and state. A secondary "benefit" is that the fringe is mowed right about now allowing succulent regrowth at a time when native woodsy plants go dormant thus bringing the ever abundant "horned rodent" right to the side of the road where they can play bumper tag. Outside of bringing back the dray horse as primary transportation, I can't imagine how one would even attempt to break this "rational" cycle. Ken
Bumper tag, pretty funny if you really think about it but how true. I would be willing to pay higher taxes. This is going to boil down to an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure.
Mimosa isn't one of my most favorite trees. Come to think of it, Tree of Heaven isn't one of my most favorite trees either. If some of the trees they're hacking down like that are Albizia or Ailanthus, then they're not exactly acting in the best interests of the tax payer because these practices will guarantee many trees come back to haunt them ten fold requiring repeated clearing.
The concerns raised by resin are extremely valid in that these practices are guaranteed to spread diseases from one tree to the next. There are long term costs associated with the spread of pathogens that evidently aren't being factored in to the equation with this cheap "quick fix".
We're selling our road crews short if we don't believe they are capable of being trained to operate chainsaws properly. If I could be trained to operate a chainsaw properly, I am convinced any one can be trained properly.
The concerns raised by Ken as pertain to the timing of clearing are also valid given many of the species we are trying to control, manage, and eradicate have an extended growing season. It's an adaptive trait of many invasive species.
I truly have difficulty believing there to exist any justification for these practices. This is certainly not the most "efficient and cost effective way of clearing the right of way and ensuring reasonable visibility along rural thoroughfares". It's nothing but a .05¢ band aid that's leaving an open and festering wound underneath.
Is there anything so wrong with wanting the job done right from the start? It sure would save everyone a lot of money in the long run while additionally providing the benefit of truly ensuring the safety of motorists.
I'm waiting for actual employees of local government (or arborists like mdvaden) to start laughing out loud.
I don't agree with the practice of bush-hogging trees, but it is almost comical to think there are enough tax dollars to pay for the hand pruning work, spread of diseases (or spread of eyesores) or not.
I welcome someone (anyone?) to spend an eight hour shift at what has been proposed here, and see how far one gets. Then multiply that distance into a standard 2080 hour year (40 hours a week; generous two week vacation) and compare it to how many miles of roadside you have in your county/city/tax district. That's doing it ONCE.
When citizens are ready to give up all the other things that tax dollars go for, and that includes the incredibly necessary creative skills of landscape architects like me (motto: Will Plan And Design for Food), then roadside adventitious vegetation will receive it's just attention.
Until then, it should be the rightful responsibility of the adjoining property owner (who is probably responsible for creating the conditions having to be rectified with YOUR tax dollars).
I do believe that they need to have a better trained eye as to what to save and what not to save. They took that thing here and actually scraped it along trunks of mature trees that weren't even causing a problem.
In the county next to me they use herbicide on the back of trucks. They basically open up the sprayer and drive slowly. If you have flower beds or shrubs next to the roadway, look out. They even sprayed lower branches of 50+yr old trees. Most of these people don't even know anything about trees. They couldn't tell you the difference between an oak and a maple.
I can't think of any better solution than to remove trees in the right of way entirely, and then bushhog the low brush once a season basically at ground level. This has to save money in the long run.
Besides spreading disease and creating an eyesore of slashed and splintered vegetation, the elevated vertical whirling blades of a bushhog held aloft by a top-heavy tractor bouncing along ruts and roadside ditches cannot be especially safe.
Scott
Am I missing something here? Wouldn't the inclusion of qualified landscape designers be of long term benefit to us all? Biting the bullet and expending the resources for professionals saves money in the long run by addressing the control, decreased property values, health costs as well as a host of other factors. Exactly what are the "down the road costs" of continuing these band aid practices? A cooperative effort would be ideal but that's going to take educating the citizens. Now, in this era of budgetary restrictions... exactly how does one go about educating the citizens of benefits? And, I can't imagine what types of workman's comp claims are paid out as a result of operating that type of equipment and I sure would like to see some figures on that. Bet it would be a real eye opener. It's our tax dollar and it isn't being spent wisely when the very practices virtually guarantee a duplication of effort by their very nature.
I do agree that I wouldn't want to be on a road crew on an eight hour shift 40 hours a week but then there are a lot of other jobs that would be considerably less desirable to me and I would presume the pay would be commensurate with the work. Most laborers in this state make considerably more money than Assistant States Attorneys.
Let's look to how the State of Texas has been successfully addressing these issues. They should be used as a model of how to do it right while saving $$$. The principles would be the same.
I just went on line. Nice links addressing roadside restoration and management here-
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/rdsduse/
I particularly enjoyed reading this-
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/rdsduse/rd_use22.htm
Look at these two links-
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/gsd/recycle/tile.htm
http://environment.transportation.org/environmental_issues/construct_maint_prac/compendium/manual/9_5.aspx
Oh lookie here, it was a landscape architect that saved the State mucho $$$-
http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/04mar/03.htm
We truly need to discontinue slapping band aids on these issues. I don't see how we can afford to continue given our resources are not unlimited. Pay now or pay later but we're going to pay.
Interesting discussion - many great points. I still believe it is the responsibility of the property owners to control the growth or risk having it ravaged as it is here. I can assure you the work comp costs for human beings operating chainsaws is much greater than those for human beings operating enclosed cabin machinery with ROP. On this matter, I have 20 years experience attempting to prove to people in the forest products industry that they could actually improve the bottom line while showing care and compassion for their employees in the woods. By the way, in my area it isn't state employees doing most of this work, it's county employees. Alabama is still primarily a rural state; I just don't believe the residents are willing to fund such a vast operation. Finally, and I'll shut my opinionated trap, I believe it's a public safety issue in my area, and we have a magnificent little plant down here that most of you probably label "an Asian Invasive" (although we imported it and planted it) that makes quick work of such ugliness. Gotta Luv that Kudzu!
Although you have a valid point there about work comp costs, I'd still like to see a verified loss run over a span of say ten years for comparison. Reason being, doing it right the first time means less time in the trenches chainsawing as opposed to years of the County exposing itself to liability. Care and compassion for employees can go a long way and has been proven to be mutually beneficial. Minimixe the time the road crews are actually on the road where they are repeatedly exposed to wreckless and careless drivers.
You have another incredibly valuable point about personal responsibility. I don't take it lightly but there are those who do and will continue to do so until there are appropriate consequences.
There are plants that are considerably more magnificent than Kudzu that afford the added benefit of being environmentally safe while providing the added functionality of controlling erosion. We're in our infancy identifying which plants will best meet our needs and we are going to need professionals to help control costs.
So you believe you have an opinionated trap??? Welcome to Trees and Shrubs, so does everyone else. Wouldn't want it any other way.
You must have taken me half seriously about Kudzu - heavens, I have to live with the stuff. If you own woodlands down here, it's a constant battle. Kudzu kills mature trees, heaven help young trees. When I retired for the second and final time, I had work comp stats for 19 consecutive years for forest products emplyees in the woods. Once the loggers went mechanized and minimized the number of sawyers on the ground to one per crew who usually only operated a pole saw to trim the load, injuries and deaths were significantly decreased, experience mods greatly improved and the employers improved their financial results. I was the largest underwirter for the forest products industry in the southeast. I just don't think I could support any effort to go back to chainsaw harvesting. It's simply too dangerous - no amount of experience can protect a sawyer from kickback. Yes, I know chainsaws have built in kickback protection, but many people remove them, because they get caught in vines and brush. Education is the answer, but most people don't want to fund it in any arena.You seem to be saying that the stuff doesn't grow back if it's cut down with a chainsaw. In our heat and humidity, it does. Peace.
Sorry about that, I did take you half seriously about the Kudzu.
Let's take European Buckthorn and Black Locust, those beasts sucker as if there is no tomorrow in my neck of the woods when the road crews do their "thang". If you don't chemically treat them after whacking them, you've got 20 Buckthorns/Locusts coming back to haunt you to remove. And, once you whack them back they begin setting seed with a vengeance thanks to all the stored energy that no longer needs to support above ground vegetation. I dunno, it seems to defy logic to whack them back without killing the actual parent tree. Took me a few years to clean up what they did out front once I figured out what was going on. Duh, I'm not the brightest crayon in the box at times. Think the Sorcerer's Apprentice here with me for a moment. What exactly are those road crews doing? Nothing more than scrambling year after year wildly whacking back offspring when they could be doing something considerably more productive.
This statement was not meant seriously, I hope:
The property owners don't care - I don't either.
Guy, I applaud you for being a responsible property owner, but if you think I'm going to accept accountability for other irresponsible property owners, think again. Anyone can talk the talk, but walk the walk - do the self pruning for all of the other irresponsible property owners along your county road. I'm too old and weary of people who don't accept responsibility for their actions, but who are quick to criticize public service employees. I respect and admire them; they're just doing what responsible citizens should be doing. By the way, who died and left you in charge? I don't think anyone should be telling the rest of us how to think. I just have a different opinion - I have no plan to save the world. By the way, county employees don't do my job, I do it myself, as you have stated you do.
I'm not all that old but I am feeling a little bit tattered and threadbare these days particularly when I am in natural areas looking at the damage first hand. I am not willing to accept accountability for the irresponsible acts of others therefore am also weary of those who don't accept responsibility for their actions. I'm afraid we're all saying the same thing here only in different words and most unfortunately; we don't have the benefit of body language, hand gestures, or tonal inflections.
I have a plan, it's to save my little piece of this world. Time allowing, I'll continue to volunteer in natural areas cleaning up this mess. Oh how I wish some plants could be neutered and spayed.
E - God Bless you. I apologize for not letting it go. I share your beliefs, but since I don't have the solutions, I am reluctant to criticize. I support your plan, I think I have one of my own. If folk will read my first post, they will see I said it was ugly. It is. You do understand the internet. I left it from December, 2002 until last year. I don't wish to be rude, but I do think it's important to share diverse views.
Nobody has the solutions and let he who has not "let go" in the past throw the first stone. I've gotta get cleaned up so I look halfway presentable. I've been playing in the dirt on and off all day long and am currently only partially dressed and have all of about 15 minutes to finish primping to walk out the door. I am told it is important that an appearance be made at social gatherings and here's hoping I don't resume the position and fall asleep midway through a sentence this evening while engaged in not-so-lively conversation. Feel for me, I hate dinner parties.
I think it's an excellent machine for getting the job done, I just wished they would slow it down a little and pay attention to what they are plowing down.
By the way, who died and left you in charge? I don't think anyone should be telling the rest of us how to think.
Here's a link on 'directional pruning' for utility trimming, from a 'Missouri Conservationist' magazine a few years back.
http://www.mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2000/04/20.htm
