Here's a photo of one of the dollar store wire candle cup holders (less the glass cups) I put in the cages for the cats to pupate on. You can see a Queen chrysalis and a Gulf Frit cat snuggling up to pupate.
~ Cat
This message was edited Sep 5, 2006 11:07 PM
...and this is what the bottom part of the wire candle cup holder looks like :o) (less the glass cups of course)
It's got a Black Swallowtail chrysalids, a couple of Giant Swallowtail chrysalids and lots of Gulf Frits crawling around in circles looking for the right spot to pupate!
~ Cat
This message was edited Sep 5, 2006 11:06 PM
Thank you for the good advice - I have some twigs in the cup of water, as I did not know if they could get out if they fell in... I can easily rig it so the water is not exposed. I will definitely get that chrysalis in the cage - I had no idea that critters would make a meal out of them!
I have seen the mesh hampers in the dollar/discount stores, for 1-2 dollars. They have come down in price as they became more commonplace...
Thanks to everyone who had input in this thread - I am far better armed now to care for the cats!
Super information all of you. I am just getting interested in helping the cats. Next year I will be ready for them.
I just found this thread full of wonderful pics and good information. Thanks for posting it!
I'm going out today to put together a butterfly cage to protect my cats.
I just found some Monarch cats on my MW--this is a first for me!
This thread should be a sticky for this forum!
I think so too T
;oD
This year (my first farming cats) I have watched 2 emerge from their chrysalis. I am still waiting on 3 more. Just an amazing thing to see! And it makes you more aware of the other caterpillars in the garden. I now SHARE my plants with them, rather that resenting the chewed leaves. With the links provided here, we can opt for more caterpillar specific plants - to add to the collection of cats :)
Yes JRush,
Glad to see you in here! That is the whole deal. Having some plants specifically FOR cats. Just like you I became aware of those special creatures that we share plants with. Such as; the tomato hornworm becomes a huge hummingbird moth, and that's just one of hundreds. Many of our favorite veg/fruits are host plants for them too. Thankfully some plants only cats eat, we enjoy those plants for their asthetic value, ...or opt to SHARE them.:o).
We are only beginning here, but this thread should be a great place for everyone to share resources for the plants supporting our planet's most amazing process, ...metomorphosis!
:oD
Yesterday I was putting about the garden, & all of the sudden I noticed a couple of Monarchs. Then I saw some MORE. A total of nine butterflies pent the next several hours visiting my flowers - it was just amazing to see them all flitting about!
As far as removing and relocating a chrysalis from your garden to put into a cage, here are a couple ways you might try to do this:
Locate the area where the cremaster (a silken pad from which the chrysalis hangs) meets the branch or whatever it is hanging from. Using your thumb and forefinger as if to pinch it, gently grasp this silken pad. Gently pull slowly and steadily. The silken pad will become a long thread. This thread can then be wound around another mounting area (twig, plant, etc.) inside your cage.
Or you can use a piece of (non-flavored) wax dental floss. I use about 8 inches. Fold the dental floss in half. Securely tie a knot using the dental floss around the base of the cremaster after removing it from it's original hanging site. Then use the dental floss to tie it to something inside your cage.
Keep in mind that this will not work on Swallowtail chrysalis or some other species. Their chrysalis are usually side-attached on branches. I have had one fall down and used just a little bit of Elmer's glue to glue it by it's side to a twig. (I try to recreate how it was originally hanging.) The butterfly emerged just fine. But don't use too much glue because there might be too much on the chrysalis which will prevent the butterfly from being able to break out through the glue coating.
Great info Becky, thanks!
Well Debness gave me a Rue plant at the swap that came complete with three Black Swallowtail eggs!!
So...I had to get to thinking about what to do for them that didn't cost much and that I could do and not involve my DH on his day off. After looking around, I found an old recycling sorter made of PVC, that I had stuck in the garage. I bought tule at JoAnn's for 64 cents a yard. I had some foam core board that I used for a base, hot gluing it to the bottom rails. I stitched a top and sides to slide over the top.
Edited much later to say that the tule fabric isn't protection against parasites!!! Use something with much smaller holes!
This message was edited Jun 11, 2008 9:00 AM
I stitched a casing for elastic underneath to hold it in place.
With that in place, I cut a picture frame from a 59 cent sheet of foam. Glued it in place, and cut the net from the center. I used the leftover foam to cut strips to make a track to seal the door.
This message was edited Oct 14, 2006 3:37 PM
I have cardboard there now, but I plan to replace it with a heavy clear plastic when I find a piece. My Rue plant just did fit inside! No need to send a picture of the cats, you couldn't see them they are so small now. But I will post on the forum somewhere later when they start growing more.
Wow Shelia,
You're very talented!
Thanks for sharing, looks like an awsome cage!
Maureen
That's our Sheila!
Nice job on that cage girl! Are all of the cats the same size? She laid many eggs while Itty(my dog) and I were watching that day.. One of the 3 cats I have is about ready to close in... One of my GF Chrysalises had disappeared when I checked this morning:o(, without a trace! But one more is about ready to "J" so I wait.. Anywho~~ neat cage!!
Been building the BF section in the back all day today and both my arms are running on inspiration now (owie) to type, lol..Tennis elbows, and I don't even watch Tennis, what's up with that?
Delayed rewards are the very best kind, when you spend the moments hoping.
:oD
I thought I had four, three were the same size and the fourth smaller, but the next day only three. With my bifocals and the light in the shop that day, could have been mistaken. They are maybe little more than an eighth of an inch long now. Can't wait until they get big enough for DH to catch them on camera.
BTW, they didn't go for the parsley, so I hope the Rue holds out!
It should Sheila, for just those few. and when and if the plant gets eaten up completely, they will be ready to sleep anyway. That is a fairly large plant for 3.
:o)
Oh good, Paige is the one I think that mentioned the plants were being devoured and I should have remembered, she is raising a village!!! LOL! Thanks, that makes me feel better. Guess I am having the new Momma jitters!
Today my last Monarch left home. And the nighttime temps are down to freezing - they must have a warm place to go, or be able to handle some cold. The wind knocked my cage over & most of the bamboo supports busted. Next year I will build a sturdy, completely outfitted cage - like the ones I have seen here. Very impressive - & creative too.
Sheila, I'm very impressed with your cage! You are a lucky woman to be able to say you "stitched" something. Really, I can sew a few things but time I get the machine all working right it wasn't worth the effort. lol
Yes, I was raising a "village" but you'll be surprised how much the last instar cats will eat. If you are feeding them on one plant thru their entire life cycle you might need a little more later. It never hurts to pick up another plant just in case and you'll be prepared now and next season. If you can't find any and run out, call me!
Ah the last one..I will be looking for them to pass through here ..o/~
I had a GF chasing me around while I transplanted her PassionVine. She kept landing on the pieces in my hand, kept me company the whole time. Took about 3 hours unthreading it and rethreading it on the lattice in back. I had a few babies on them too, and they moved just fine. Now they are all tucked into their new bed.
The BST cats are getting really big, (the biggest one is over 2"long now), and still munchin away.
o/~@Sheila & Paige
;o)
Deb you asked earlier; and today I can see, I have one of the BST cats that is a little bigger than the other two.
Paige thanks for the offer. I am going to try to find another Rue plant just incase.
Sheila, check out Redenta's first. I've never had any problems with their plants. Unfortunately, my last 4 cats that ate the last plant I bought at Green Mama's died.
I'm not sure how insecticides work, especially when I don't know what kind was used either. I don't know if the chemicals can wash off, which I'm hoping happened with the rain, or if they wear off, or if I need to cut the plant back. ? There's always a slight chance that something else was wrong with them too.
I'm keeping my last plant in a pot and the one that Debnes gave me in a pot too, so they'll be here if you need them.
That's too bad Paige, hopefully they don't use systemics.....that would be in the soil. I probably wouldn't use the plant until next year or transplant it into new soil. Would Green Mama's tell you if you asked them?
I don't know if any of you have had this happen, but it happened again this past week to me. I lost most of the Eastern Black Swallowtail cats that I had in my cage. I have a feeling that it was a cat virus. That has happened to me in the past off and on. All it takes is one sick cat and they spread the virus around to all the other cats in the same cage. I know it wasn't pesticide because I grew these plants and I don't use pesticides in my garden. (Except to kill the wasps and I try to be careful to direct the spray at the wasp nest and away from plants. Plus those plants were in my herb garden not near the fence.)
So now I have to soak the cage in a water/bleach solution to sterilize and prevent any further spread in the future. It happens. I always feel bad, but chances are the wasps would have gotten them anyway and at least I tried to give them a chance to become butterflies.
I have heard that butterflies making it and living to their maximum life cycle is something like 1 in 100. I am not surprised to hear such low stats of survival. The odds are stacked against these beauties of nature.
That's so sad. I have one chrysalis that hasn't eclosed and it's been 19 days, so I'm sure something is wrong with it. Isn't it hard letting them go? It's really hard for me, but I wouldn't want to spend my life in a cage.
I didn't realize the stats were that bad for them. Most people in my neighborhood have a lawn service that sprays chemicals everywhere, but these people usually don't have milkweed.
I wish I knew for sure if it were the plant. The nursery is an organic nursery but they don't grow their own plants, that I know of. An earlier brood of BST's had a problem where they weren't eclosing after pupating. They weren't dying as cats. One of these didn't pupate all the way and the other 3 cats died. Geez, I think. I can't remember exactly.
I think both Sheila and Debnes cats are eating plants from the same nursery. I wonder...if it's a virus then I would think they would be more likely to have problems in the latter stages and an insecticide would effect them sooner. (I'm actually too tired to reason it out..someone else do it for me. lol)
I do have one chrysalis that has not eclosed yet and it should have. I need to go look at it and see if it has changed or rotted or something. I hate to lose them but they are definitely getting a much better chance at life with me helping than they would in my spider filled garden.
This message was edited Oct 16, 2006 8:35 PM
Cat viruses can attack them during any stage from instar to chrysalis. I've had cats infected at all stages in my cage and also in the yard. I don't know what the viruses are, but that is what I have read and heard. It is sad to see them get to the point of a chrysalis and then die. It's such a bummer!
It is a bummer. I had a beauty eclose but he couldn't close his wings all the way so he couldn't fly. Sorry if you've already heard this one....all these threads start to run together lol.
And, he wouldn't drink either, it was terrible.
Maybe, that was a virus, it's hard to know what happens to them.
Do you all clean your cage often with a bleach solution?
Yes, I clean my cages with water and bleach solution after every butterfly group is released to fly in the wild.
Here is a link on cat viruses:
http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/pathogens/viruses.html
This message was edited Oct 16, 2006 9:42 PM
Thanks for the link
Do you spray it on or how do you apply?
Fly, I hear ya on the threads all running together! Some threads get so long and the topic changes and I just can not keep up!
Well, bad news...my one chrysalis is black and turning soft. I noticed it darkening but it's inside a net bug hut and not easy to see so I just figured it was fixing to eclose. I might go ahead and send it off to a DG member that is an entomologist and he offered to look at the first ones to see if it was a virus. I still have a couple of those that I could send too. They turned a weird brown and never eclosed. They never deteriorated either, unless they have by now. They are out in the garage so I'll check on them too. It might be worthwhile to let him look at them.
I used to always wash the bug huts after using them and rarely had any problems. I might not have washed this hut tho. I did have to clean out my wooden cage with bleach really good with that other batch. I also let it set out in the sun to disinfect it.
I think that one of mine is the same way. I hope it doesn't infect all of them...right now I have 51 chrysalis's, is that plural? lol
It's funny when you find these little tiny cats, you can barely see them, and you bring them all in and all of a sudden you have 30 huge cats that you don't know how you are going to feed them all, you feel like Old Mother Hubbard.
What I do is use a big aluminum wash tub and fill it with water and then add a little bleach to it. I completely submerge the entire cage in it for about half an hour. I then let the cage air-dry on my screened porch for a day or two to get rid of the bleach smell. You don't need a lot of bleach. Like 1/4 cup to 20 gallons. Just enough to kill any germs/viruses/etc. It also cleans the cage very nicely.
This is the main reason I like the pop-up mesh cages. They are really easy to clean and disinfect.
lol...I always think of that little kids game "hungry, hungry hippo"!! I've had this discussion on another site a few years ago about the plural form of chrysalis. I think it was chrysalises. Or maybe I just made that up in my head. LOL!
Are your cats BST's? This is the first year I've ever had any problems with mine.
They're monarchs, that's all I've raised so far.
The thing about the pop ups I didn't like was getting the plants out. The stems all intertwined and with the cats all over them, it was hard swapping them out. And then one pupated on the top very close to the zipper so everytime I open it that poor little thing moved, he may not eclose because of that. I should have moved him. I haven't moved a chrysalis yet, I'm afraid to.
Yes, there are disadvantages to ALL cages unfortunately. You are right about the pop-up cages. I even bought a mess snake cage, but the dark mess did't allow enough light in, so it was hard to even see the cats. But it was nice because you could completely unzip the front of the cage which made it easier for cleaning and plant exchanging.
I would not advise moving a chrysalis until it is hard to the touch. I move mine all the time using either the silk on the chrysalis or unflavored wax dental floss. Cats sometime find a spot that is not good or safe for them. I removed them from my garden when I find them if they are in a place that they probably won't make it, too. I can spot them easier as I have come to know what to look for and where I am likely to find them hanging.
I always leave a "sick-looking" chrysalis for a week longer or more just to be on the safe side. Sometimes they do make it even when you suspect they may have died in the chrysalis. Colder weather will sometimes affect it, too.
So, you haven't had any problems moving them?
I constructed my cage wrong in that the top side boards have a 2" space between the top mesh and the board and some cats have pupated in there. I'm afraid when they open, their wings will not be able to drop and expand completely. I'll move them.
When they are all gone I need to redo the cage. Sometimes, I have to see a problem happen before I realize there is a problem lol.
I have another chrysalis that looks sucked in and not plump like the others, that's probably not good.
I have never spotted one in the garden and I'm always looking for them.
