Raccoons Getting A Little Too Friendly - Part 2

Charleston, SC(Zone 9a)

This Thread is a continuation of a saga and discussion that started here: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/603944/

To truly understand what is going on, you are strongly encouraged to see how the thread developed from the beginning.

Thumbnail by DreamOfSpring
Monon, IN

Awww, what a sweety-pie! They are adorable little animals when they are not sick with rabies and if they are not cornered. Pound-for-pound, says Sterling North, a full-grown, fit raccoon can lick any dog that ever lived." And one raccoon can put even a pack of hounds into misery before it succumbs to them, IF it succumbs.

I love raccoons, and coati-mundis and their relatives!

Valencia, PA(Zone 5b)

She looks like a little ham in the photos. It isn't their fault that rabies is rampant around at times, and I do believe they only attack dogs when they are threatened. We have to look at things both from their point of view and ours. In the end, it is ours that counts. Our health, our safety and our emotional attachment to some very adorable animals. You read other threads on bears and squirrels getting into the house and just ruining it, so it just isn't the raccoons. But I would hope that if you stop feeding them entirely that they don't decide to enter the house and do a food search. Lots of things to consider and talk about. Still love this thread. Karen

The Woodlands, TX(Zone 9a)

Did you figure out the infrared thing, Scutler? Those last two photos are quite awesome, and taken at night!

Monon, IN

Liebran, that is something I admire about raccoons. Unless sick, they very much mind their own business, unless they are offered food, of course, and then if they are treated with friendship and respect, they will never attack a dog, human, etc. They will certainly run first.

They can, if they get into the wrong places, cause quite a mess, due to their curiousity and hunger, but they are not dangerous unless they are sick or unless they are messed with.

There was one incident I was a part of a couple years back. It was with a couple of young coons that had become used to people. We were at a petting zoo, and the two little coons were eating some rice someone had scattered on a rock. The coons were on the ground eating the rice that had spilled off the rock. I reached down to brush some more rice off onto the ground, and one of those "half-pint" coons growled---actually roared is more like it, and snapped at my hand. I was shocked! But I fully believe that if that coon had wanted to get its teeth INTO my hand rather than NEXT TO it, that it would have! I had been given a very stiff warning: "This is MY RICE! STAY AWAY or ELSE!" LOL!

Hendersonville, NC(Zone 7a)

I'm with you, CarolJeanie; I've never known a HEALTHY raccoon to attack either dogs or humans unless cornered and unable to escape. If attacked, yes they do a powerful job of defending themselves, and yes they can do a lot of damage. Since we have intentionally created several breeds of dog for the express purpose of hunting raccoons, I think we can hardly blame coons for feeling a genuine threat when cornered/chased by dogs.

Rabid raccoons, or any animal with rabies, will attack any animate or inanimate object, including maiming their own bodies. The disease attacks and destroys the central nervous system, ultimately leading to paralysis and death. Having worked animal control, including in years when there was a cyclical upswing of raccoon rabies, I've been charged a couple times by sick raccoons I had to capture. The animals were unmistakably and visibly ill; no one would have looked at them and mistaken them for healthy animals. Of course, I'd been vaccinated for rabies; as I said, this is essential for anyone who must physically handle raccoons or any wild animal, including feral cats (who also get rabies from time to time). And of course all dogs and cats must be vaccinated, always. Pre-exposure vaccination is painless and very effective; and even if one is bitten by a rabid animal, post-exposure vaccination is virtually always effective in preventing rabies if given promptly. Rabies is a heartbreaking disease, and almost universally fatal, but there is no reason to live in fear of a preventable disease. Cautious and sensible are the watchwords.

I think scutler is being wise in deciding to go back to a bit more physical distance from the coon family, for both her own safety and that of the raccoons. They were beginning to come a bit closer than is ideal for interaction with wildlife, though I know from experience that it's fascinating and very very hard to resist. If they become comfortable approaching people that closely, sooner or later they will approach another person who is not comfortable with it; this person could decide they're rabid because they're not "acting normally," and have them removed or destroyed. It's only a guess, but I think most of the current litter will eventually disperse and go out on their own; either when Heidi becomes pregnant and runs them off, or when they get to an age where their scraps with each other become serious enough to chase some away. She may well have inherited the shy, smaller baby for ongoing care; and Heidi would be virtually impossible to chase away at this point. But I don't think scutler has any plans to chase her off...

Wheatfield, NY(Zone 6a)

Well, they're just adorable. It's too bad. If they were ugly, we probably wouldn't have a problem.

Pasadena, CA(Zone 9b)

I've noticed that raccoon 'poo' (for lack of a better or more adult word) keeps getting dropped on my front patio right in front of my picture window. Took me awhile to figure out what it was but after reading some of the info on the previous thread now I know. (And to be cautious when cleaning it up).

Goofy racoon....I theorize what happens is he hits the patio, the security light goes on and suddenly he sees his reflection in the big window and just loses it! It makes me laugh!

Peterstown, WV(Zone 6a)

LOL!!! That's pretty good.

Charleston, SC(Zone 9a)

Before I proceed, I'd like to go back a bit and address some things I didn't have time to address before.

George, it was nice to hear from you. I hope that you are still with us. I guess it's a moot point now, but a standin was never really much of an option. I have only broached the subject of the raccoons with 2 of my non-virtual friends, both of whom thought I'd lost my mind. BTW, I very much share your views on the danger involved but more on that later.

spartacusaby, I could not agree more that "the more we know about them, the less we'll have to fear and the better we'll be able to share the world. "

BTW, could someone PLEASE tell me how to do the quote thing? PLEASE?

fleurs (Debra), after reading your earlier post, I wanted to voice my concern about whether the sickly raccoon might have rabies. I know that is unlikely as he may be sick for any of a number of reasons, but I would be wary around a raccoon that is obviously sick. You told a very cute story about the antics of "your" resident raccoons. I could readily invision them climbing on the structure and even hear the deer stomping the ground.

gram, welcome. glad to have you with us. As you can tell, I, too, love all of the creatures. Thanks for letting us know that your are there - good to hear from the lurkers ; )

NY2CA and fleurs, thanks for the wonderful compliment, and I'm sure that I would love to have both of you as neighbors, too!

Charleston, SC(Zone 9a)

CJ, thanks for the compliment on the photos. No to the infra-red thing : (
As soon as I "catch up", I'm just dying to tell you all about recent events. The answer to the photo mystery will be clear VERY soon. promise.

RE photo below. Anyone think that I should "mow" the lawn yet? LOL

Thumbnail by DreamOfSpring
Hendersonville, NC(Zone 7a)

Great photos, scutler, and thanks so much for sharing; we've all been looking forward to them!

Pasadena, CA(Zone 9b)

Love these photos!

If you have a picture of one pooping, I can imagine guy that poops on my patio. :->>>>>>>

Charleston, SC(Zone 9a)

Ok, now Widget is getting restless. He is starting to let me know that he has been patient long enough. At the moment I am typing on my laptop, and he is lying beside the laptop and resting his chin on my wrist. I do SO wish that I could show you the pitiful, "no body will play with me" face he is making.

Since Widget is a member of the family, and as I've mentioned him many times in the thread, I thought I'd show you a couple of pics of him so you'll know "who" I'm talking about. http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1933135
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1933214
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2218675
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2218757

Charleston, SC(Zone 9a)

Thanks, spartacusaby and NY2CA, I have LOTS more photos, too!

No poo photos. ; (

NY, adorable story about your raccoon. Oddly enough given all that has been said, my group doesn't seem to leave me poo gifts, not that I am complaining. I have never, ever seen any on the patio or around the feeder, etc. In 6 years I have only seen 2 such "offerings", both at the back of the yard near the fence, both apparently provoked by the eating of fruit with seeds, cherries and grapes.

Hendersonville, NC(Zone 7a)

What an adorable little guy!

Pasadena, CA(Zone 9b)

Oh my goodness.....how could you not love that puppy dog....what a beauty.....

I bet that 'face' looks a little like this one.....
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/625084/

** don't think I pasted that link properly - photo near the bottom of my baby **

This message was edited Aug 17, 2006 6:21 PM

Wheatfield, NY(Zone 6a)

scutler, I thought your racoons were the cutest things, but Widget wins the prize. absolutely the sweetest!!

gram

Valencia, PA(Zone 5b)

They are just so adorable, as is Widget. Thanks for the pics. Karen (liebran)

Charleston, SC(Zone 9a)

Ok, sorry for the delay. We had to go play (or else).

Thanks, guys. He is the closest thing I've found to a living teddy bear. And he has a very sweet, albeit active, personality. (I taught him to play fetch with his frisbees and stuffed animals - or he taught me, who knows - now, I kid you not, every step I take across the floor, I can feel a stuffed animals poking my heels and ankles. It was cute the 1st few days, but...)

NY, great catch on that photo, and, yep, that's the face. your baby is quite handsome!

Charleston, SC(Zone 9a)

Thanks, Karen!

Ok, now back to raccoons - before I digress so far that I forget what the subject WAS. LOL

Now I can only attest to what I have witnessed, and I say this with all of the humility befitting one who may well end up having to refute my own testimony, but...

1st of all, no, Heidi isn't going anywhere. I have lived here for 6 years, and she has been here the whole time, even though I spent the 1st 5+ years trying to discourage her in every way I could imagine - without hurting her, of course. I had seen evidence of her presence sooner, but I 1st met her about 10AM one sunny, Saturday morning when I sat on the family room sofa and cast a glance out of the back windows to see a mid sized dog standing under my bird feeder. Suddenly, I realized that I didn't have a med sized brown dog, and the back yard was enclosed by a privacy fence. That's when I did the double take and saw much too my amazement that the dog was a raccoon and she was just standing there calmly "grazing" on dropped seeds.

As i had been raised to fear raccoons I "knew" that I had to run her off. I ran outside, bare-footed, carrying a broom and stood on the corner of the patio, no doubt looking like an idiot, shaking the broom in the air and shouting, "Get out of here!" Calmly she raised her head and looked my way for a moment before resuming her breakfast. Well, I was not to be ignored this way. Who did she think she was? I was bigger, and a human, and it was MY yard, and she was supposed to run away! I rushed back inside my brain spinning out of control in search of something to "throw" at her to show that I meant business, doggoneit. So, and I have no idea why, I grabbed 2 cans of soup from the kitchen and rushed back out, still yelling, waving my arms, and acting like an idiot.

Heidi continued to ignore me. This time I tiptoed carefully across the lawn, still in bare feet, and stopped about 15 ft from her. Well, ok, the bluff wasn't working. She was still ignoring me. I would actually have to throw the things at her. Clearly, I was loosing this game of chicken because I could not actually risk hitting her with the can, wasn't about to actually hurt her, so I tossed a can over "near" her. But since I'm not a very good shot, I had to throw it soem 3-5 ft away to be sure it wouldn't hit her accidentally. I will never forget that moment when, instead of running, she calmly walked over, picked the can up, and inspected it -- as if she thought it was a GIFT!

Naturally, when I threw the other can it had no more impact than the 1st. Raccon still in the yard in broad daylight, I went BACK inside for more ammo. I came back with the "blaster" water gun that the squirrels and I use to play tag - but she had already left by that time.

That is where our relationship started. Since then she has come and gone, sometime re-emerging after prolonged periods of absence, but she has always been here. I have spent most of the past 5 years dutifully carrying the feeders in each evening and putting them out each morning, afterall one can never get too much exercise, and I have to take the dog out anyhow. During desperate times - which usually occur in Spring and Summer and now we know why - Heidi, knowing that I take the feeder away at dusk, would come earlier and earlier each evening to raid it before I got there. As we each tried to beat the other to the take, ultimately she would be arriving before I got home from work. Check Mate.

Charleston, SC(Zone 9a)

Over the past 6 years Heidi has bent a few shepard's hooks and trashed a handful of feeders. She has run away with suet holders, etc. But to date she hasn't bothered the house. She doesn't mess with things on the patio UNLESS they are food related. (I have long since learned not to leave the compost pail out there, for instance.) We are required to keep all trash in a large container provided by the city. With the exception of trash pick up day, the container must be in the garage. Hence, critters have little opportunity to raid the trash.

As previously mentioned, I have only found 2 poo offerings. In case you are thinking that I just don't see them, I am an avid gardener. My backyard is a cottage garden. Every morning and every evening I stroll about my little "kingdom" taking note of everything, usually taking copious photos as well. I see every change. Once when a neighbor cut 2 roses (I have over 100 rose plants), I noticed that they were gone because I had photographed the buds each day as they emerged and began to open. Of course, I missed them! So, no poo.

Widget just turned 1. Before him I had Sassy who died just over a year ago. Sassy was also a Maltese. She weighed 9lbs and was 11 when she died, so about 6 when we 1st moved here. Sassy was well named. She was far more aggressive than Widget. She hated the raccoons, Heidi included. Despite my disapproval, Sassy had no tolerance for raccoons in her yard and would chase them relentlessly at every opportunity. She would even wake me at night (insisting she had to go outside) when she knew Heidi was out there. When I'd open the back door (not realizing the raccoons were even out there until it was too late), she would be out the door like a greyhound breaking from the gate. There was no detaining her and no calling her back. She was PO'd and determined. She'd chaise Heidi at high speed right up to the fence and stand there barking and growling. Many times over the years Heidi had company (which I now realize were her other kids) and Sassy would foolishly and fearlessly rush right out there in the middle of them like a cutting horse after cattle.

In all those 5 years, Sassy never got so much as a scratch. (She was solid white. Even a tiny bit of blood would show up big time.) As I was never able to stop her and as nothing ever happened to her, eventually I stopped even watching. I'd open the door and let her go out by herself only to return a while later. None of the raccoons ever harmed her - and I have no doubt they could have easily! It seemed to me that they respected her territory, not enough to stay out of it, but enough to leave on request without a fight.

When Sassy chased Heidi at "high" speed, Heidi had to leap onto the fence in mid "gallop" and rely on her claws to grab and hold the fence to make her get away in front of the charging dog. One evening, I witnessed as Heidi "missed" her mark and fell back at Sassy's feet. At that point, trapped against the fence and with Sassy virtually on top of her, Heidi had no choice but to stand her ground and "fight". I stood in horror as Heidi turned on tiny little 9lb Sassy. Face to face with Heidi, her bluff called and realizing that she didn't REALLY want to fight with the raccoon, Sassy turned tail and ran with Heidi chaising after her. Heidi only followed Sassy for a few strides before she returned to the fence and into the forest.

Likewise, Heidi and her kids have had ample opportunity to harm Widget. Although Widget is far less aggressive than Sassy and is more inclined to listen to me when I call him back, nonetheless, he has gotten too close to the raccoons on too many occaisions. Still they have never harmed him either.

Don't get me wrong, I do worry about Widget. Due to his size and youth I am particularly protective of him. I realize that he is no match for a raccoon. I'm just saying that so far, from what I have seen, I must agree with spartacusaby and the rest of you who believe that raccoons don't "look" for a fight and don't typically go after dogs or people as long as their is an escape route available. I also get the impression that Heidi realizes that I am protecting the puppy just as she is protecting her kids.

More to come but must get to sleep for now. Morning comes early!

Hendersonville, NC(Zone 7a)

Hey, scutler; your description of your first meeting with Heidi had me ROFL; just priceless, and thanks so much for sharing it! That is just a perfect description of first encounter between human realizing she's moved into a raccoon's territory, and raccoon wondering what the fuss is all about. And thank you, and whatever powers that be, that you are who you are, and did not immediately call animal control to report a "rabid" raccoon who had threatened your dog. We really can peacefully co-exist with nature, and we thank you for the example you are setting every day.

Your descriptions of daily life with Heidi and clan beautifully portray normal and healthy raccoon behavior; your willingness to support and learn about them is an example to us all. Thank you for your desire to learn about them, to protect them, yourself, and Widget; and to share the world peacefully and sensibly. You go, girl!

Charleston, SC(Zone 9a)

Thank YOU, spartacusaby. What an eloquent and poetic passage! It brought tears (of joy) to my eyes. I hope that I can rise to the level of that description each and every day. Thank you.

Oops. Edited to change to 'eloquent' because by the early AM my brain appears to begin running on a leaner mixture. : )

This message was edited Aug 18, 2006 9:03 PM

Monon, IN

Scutler, it sounds to me as if Heidi's general thinking about Sassy was, "Dumb dog---here she comes again..." My neighbor feeds both coons and ferile cats. She puts out cat food every day for the cats. The cats eat their fill and about dusk the coons come by and finish it. She has seen only one altercation between cat and coon. It was when one of the cats had given birth to kittens and a coon came out of the woods early and was approaching the cat food dishes where her kittens were eating. The mother cat charged the coon, hit it on a dead run, and cat and coon did a couple of summersaults, after which the coon retreated to the woods.

The only fights my neighbor has seen have been young coons fighting with each other. I suppose maybe that play fighting prepares them for some future time when they may have to fight for their lives.

It seems to me coons are simply too clever to fight if they have an acceptable alternative, like running and hiding till the danger is over. But woe to most attackers if a coon can find no means of retreat.

Oh, forgot to say, Widget is adorable, and looks like she comes from a long line of viscious coon hunting, coon killing hounds. It about cracks me up to picture such a tiny bundle of fur charging a raccoon. Had it been a bear, she might have gotten swiped with a paw, and that would have been that. Heidi was very kind!

Have you or anyone read the book, "Raccoons Are the Smartest People"? I believe the author is Sterling North, who also wrote "Rascal," a book about his boyhood experiences growing up with a young raccoon he named "Rascal." The book was so popular, it was translated into quite a few languages, including Japanese.

CJ

This message was edited Aug 18, 2006 3:04 AM

Houston, TX(Zone 9a)

To do quotes.. [quo te](but take the space between the o and the t out)[/quo te]

Quoting:
(but take the space between the o and the t out)

Monon, IN

Hi, Marilyn. I apologize for having practically no idea of what your post is saying. Could you explain, please? Thanks kindly.

Houston, TX(Zone 9a)

Hi, CarolJeanie! Scutler wanted to know how to do quotes (the blue box).. Those are the html tags to make them work. I'm sorry I didn't explain it better. :-)

Monon, IN

Thanks, Marylyn. I have wondered how that is done. So how would I get the sentence, "I have wondered how that was done." to appear as a quote in a blue box?

CJ

Charleston, SC(Zone 9a)

Thanks very much, Marylyn_TX!
(For SO long I have wondered how to do this; have asked repeatedly to no avail. REALLY appreciate the info) : )

Carol, in an earlier post I pleaded for someone to tell me how to display quotes of material others previously wrote - so that I can refer directly to a particular phrase or comment. Her explanation shows both how to do it (1st part) and what it looks like (2nd part).

Testing, 1, 2, 3:

Quoting:
Testing, 1, 2, 3

Monon, IN

{quo te}So that's how it's done!{/quo te}

This message was edited Aug 18, 2006 10:41 AM

Monon, IN

You are quicker than I, scutler. Could you perhaps illustrate how to do it, using the sentence, "So that's how it's done!"?

Thanks!

CJ

Houston, TX(Zone 9a)

Use the [square brackets], not the fancy ones. And drop the spaces in the word quote :-)

Quoting:
So that's how it's done!

West Pottsgrove, PA(Zone 6b)

I've enjoyed reading this thread! The mystery of quotations and many others are explained in the forum Dave's Garden FAQ. There's all kinds of neat stuff in there

Monon, IN

{quo te}So that's how it's done!{/quo te}

[quo te] So that's how it's done! [quo te]

Quoting:
So that's how it's done!


This message was edited Aug 18, 2006 12:38 PM

Monon, IN

Quoting:
Thank you, Marilyn! Now I know!

Charleston, SC(Zone 9a)

CarolJeanie, congratulations! Now we can do quotes, Yay! Sorry I could not answer your question earlier - I took a long lunch. : D

claypa, thanks for the info. I will have to check that out. Oh, and glad you are with us and are enjoying the thread.

I have lots more to tell you guys - this weekend - can't wait. (If ONLY I could type faster!)

Wheatfield, NY(Zone 6a)

this way we've got something to look forward to besides summer re-runs :0)

and now I know how to do quotes, too...thank you marylyn from texas (from whence the best things come ... my mom was from San Antonio)

gram

Monon, IN

Quoting:
My mom was from San Antonio.


Not really, Gram. Just practicing so I don't forget how! ;0)

Houston, TX(Zone 9a)

You're welcome! :-)

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