I sort of goofed up the lasagne bed, looking for a fix.

Hi all-

I sort of goofed up a lasagne bed I wanted to plant in next spring. This past weekend I put down cardboard, newspaper, and a ripped up Yellow Book to cover a bunch of bad grass, crab grass, nimble weed and clovers which was a section of my back yard, but I forgot to dig up and turn over the grass. The area is small -- about 12' x 12'.

I wet it all down and put on a 2-3" warm mix of grass and oak leaves which had just been cut and collected. Then I sprinkled a little fertilizer and water. THEN I sprinkled a little* soil overall and watered really well -- it was only about 2 shovelfuls of soil because I just dont have soil-soil in my yard I can just dig up without leaving a hole somewhere, y'know?

Three questions: Will this work since I didn't turn over the sod (such as it was). And do you think the cardboard might actually decompose by next April-May? (It can be really hot here in Aug-Sep and early Oct.) I was hoping this would be my nursery bed for my ws'd perennials and slow growers. #3 How often do I water this?

I can do almost anything to fix this as long as I get to ADD and don't have to scrape the newspaper up. I can add semi-fresh horse manure (not very good for the ws babies, tho) or I can add more leaves. Or lead mold, or alfalfa or Starbucks and leaves. I could even harvest some worms from the leaf pile to get things going, but I'm not interested in turning anything over with my shovel -- too hard!

The object of the game is to find a place for the milk jugs, and later the seedling babies.

Thanks,
Suzy

Yes it will work. You do not have turn over sod to make a new bed. I don't.

I am thinking of your bed more as smothering and mulch cover than lasagna composting.

If your layers of paper are thick enough (certainly the cardboard is plenty thick) - most everything underneath will be smothered and will die. If you get a few weeds poking through next year - just pull 'em and compost 'em.

I only water a smothered bed the first time that I put the paper/cardboard down and then again after I put the plants in. (And then when the plants need it.)

Because you sprinkled soil on top, I would probably put a mulch cover of shredded leaves to cover the soil. Bare soil is an invitation for weeds to sprout.

The cardboard doesn't need to be fully decomposed in order to put plants there. You can just cut a hole in the cardboard and plant right through it. I have put plants in the same day that I put cardboard and mulch down.... And sometimes I put cardboard and mulch down after I put the plants in (I don't reccomend that order, but if you have plants waiting to get in the ground - sometimes you do what you can.)

I'd done this lots of times only I often used old carpet, etc. So you can stop worrying. All will be well in the spring.

joepyeweed, educate me. I've just done pretty much the same thing for my rose garden (roses to be shipped in late September). But if I don't keep it wet, the cardboard dries and curls and lets grass get growing. So I've been keeping it pretty damp. I haven't put the top layer of soil on it yet, though -- I want to wait and order the topsoil when I can get sod so I can (whole 'nother project which would take tooooooo long) so it's just the paper and cardboard with dried grass clippings and about an inch of manure. Should I go ahead and get the soil?

SOLVE MY PROBLEMS FOR ME, JOEPYEWEED!

This is what I do to create a new bed...(or mulch an existing bed)

I scalp the grass with my mower in the area where I want the bed.
I hose the bed area down to get it good and moist.
I then cover the bed with thick layers of newspaper (10-12 sheets thick) or cardboard.
I hose the cardboard/paper down to get it good and wet.
I then cover the paper/cardboard with a thick layer (2 to 3") of shredded leaf mulch (or shredded pallet wood chips that I get real cheap from a local charity).
I sprinkle the mulch to get it moist and "set" it.
I then move my plants still in containers, around on top of the mulched bed to get feeling of their arrangement.

Once I decide I like the plant arrangement/locations...

For each plant - I push the mulch aside, cut a hole in the cardboard, cut a slit (or dig a hole) in the ground, insert plant roots into slit (or hole), press soil back around roots, replace the cardboard around the plant, respread the mulch back around the plant, and water in generously.

If you are mulching an existing bed - you have to work the cardboard/papers and mulch around the existing plants without damaging them - which can be a bit tedious, but not impossible.

Usually the leaf mulch only lasts about one season and the bed needs to be remulched. The leaf mulch is free, is great for the plants and give me a place to put my fall leaves. The shredded pallet wood chip mulch is cheap, lasts about two or three seasons before it needs re-mulching.

I wouldn't put soil on top of the cardboard. But it sounds to me brigidlily that maybe you need more mulch on top of the cardboard? The mulch on top of the cardboard hides the cardboard, helps keep it moist and probably weighs it down some.

If I want to do some lasagne like stuff - I usually put the "green" material under the cardboard.

And bridgidlily - if the grass that you are trying to smother is bermuda - it takes quite a bit of smothering to make any dent in it. And you may have to dig a cut off trench around the bed...

Does this make sense?

Yes, it's helping. The green I have is grass clippings, and I'm afraid if I get it thick enough to keep the cardboard moist, it's going to mat and go hydrophobic and smell and grow arms and carry me down to Hades.

Okay, maybe not that last part. But it's St. Augustine grass, and when it pokes its little blades up they're easy to remove. It's surrounded on two sides by house and the other two by sidewalk so the edge is very official. I scalped it, put down cardboard or newspaper (though not as thick as you did), then put a layer of grass (just enough to cover the cardboard) and a layer of compost (enough to completely cover). Should I maybe pull out the cardboard and put it on top now, and then cover it with a thicker layer of grass clippings? (I have a ton from my very nice yard nazi neighbor.)

Knowing Nature, anything will probably work in the end.

You are right, too thick of a layer of grass clippings can stink.

But I think you're layers may not be thick enough to get the smothering?

I always finish the top layer as a "carbon material" like wood chips or shredded leaves. The carbon cap helps retain moisture and can be piled on thick without odor problems.

I would reccomend you cover everything you have placed with a good thick layer of wood chips or shredded bark mulch.

I can probably get pine straw pretty easily; maybe now's the time.

Thanks, joe!

Pine straw would be good - make the layer real thick - thicker than you think you would want it, because it will settle and compress a bit ... which helps the smothering.

Let me know how it goes.