Which Bug Spray Is Best?

Hi, I found some odd slug/bug things on my angel's trumpet. I brought them in to my local nursery for identification and they suggested "Montery Garden Spray". When I got home I pulled out all the different pesticides and sprays I've purchased over the last year. When I read the labels they seem to cover many of the same things, but which is best? Here's the lot of them:

bayer rose and flower care - systemic, active ingred = disulfoton
Safer caterpillar Killer - active ingred = bacillus thuringiensis (assuming this is the BT I've heard others talking about)
Ultra fine pesticidal oil - active ingred = paraffinic Oil
Monterey Garden Spray - active ingred= spinosad
Neem Oil Concentrate - active ingred = neem (what do you know!)

I'd really rather use one for everything instead of driving myself crazy with this spray for this plant, and another for that one...etc. So what do you think?

Thanks, Christina

One more question, if use the systemic is it ok to also spray or is that over doing it? Thanks again. :)

In my personal opinion, though I think that Equillibrium would probably back me up on this one, I'd dump the disulfoton at your next local poison round-up day. That is nasty stuff. It's not people friendly or pet friendly (It has a low LD-50, which means it's on the poisonous side to people and pets).

For a systemic, I would suggest imidicloprid instead (even though it is more expensive), but that would mostly be for homopterans (aphids, mealy bugs, whiteflies, leaf hoppers, soft scales). For caterpillars, I would suggest the Bt - no question about it. It's specific to caterpillars, so won't get non-targets. I believe that the spinosad is also a more natural choice, and that the insects muct ingest it to die (i.e. less residual damage to non-targets).

If I knew what your pest was, I'd better be able to give you advice on how to get rid of it. maybe you could post a picture of the pest?

"" I found some odd slug/bug things ""
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diatomaceous earth will kill ants , slugs spiders - almost anything - but there are 2 kinds . One kind is for filters and the other [ heat treated ] will kill insects - ants , fleas , ticks , spiders etc. . Do an internet search for - diatomaceous earth .
Bad thing is it kills good and bad bugs . It is safe around pets , 2 and 4 legged ones . It is sold as a flea powder .

Good Morning, Thanks for the replies. I took several pictures and these are the best of them. They're pretty small so it was difficult to get them close up, but here you go.

This first one is the top of view. I'm not sure if this clorosis is due to the insect, but that's a concern.

Here they are on the leaf.

this one is a little blurry, but it shows the eggs which are a clear yellowy mass in the chewed portion.

this last one was my best attempt to give you a close up.

Night Bloom; Aside from this bug, which I've never seen before, my main garden pests are spider mites, scale, thrips, white fly and several varieties of aphids (different colors). At this time of year I see inch worms and caterpillars too. I like the idea of the systemic, since I can water it in and be done with it. I even heard of one made by bayer that lasts a year! Since I'm not one to waste, I'll probably use up the rose and bloom but switch to your suggestion after. Is it ok to use the systemic with a spray too? I'm always really careful with any poisons to only use them where they won't be accessible to dogs or kids. Some of the plants just have to suffer without anything; tough love but safer.

When I spray it's really difficult to get the underside of the leaves, and the overspray goes everywhere (including on me). Now if spraying is really the best, it sounds like you're saying BT and Spinosad are virtually treating the same bug and are equally as good. If that's the case then I'll return the Spinosad since it was 17 bucks for a tiny bottle and I already have BT. If it's specific to cats, does this include inch worms too (they look similar to me)? Are these two products innefective on the other bugs I mentioned?

Tonyjr; I've heard of the diatomaceous earth but haven't tried it. The next time I have ant problems I'll give it a go. Nice to hear that it's safe.

This message was edited Jul 24, 2006 7:03 AM

Does this look like what I have? The 'excrement piling on the their backs", seems to describe them... http://www.umassgreeninfo.org/fact_sheets/defoliators/lily_leaf_beetle.html. Here's another fact sheet: http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/sheets/lilyleafbeetle.html

This message was edited Jul 27, 2006 7:14 AM

Based on the last picture, leaf beetles is one option. Larvae can be very difficult to identify though. This somehow seems familiar, but I don't have any of my books with me. I almost thought that it reminded me of a mexican bean beetle, but none of the pictures on the internet seemed similar.

When I get back to work and can get my books, maybe I'll have a better idea for you. Keep an eye out for any adults. Adults are easier to identify.

Anyone else have an idea?

I looked up your beetle, and I do recall seeing a yellow bug that might have looked like this: http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3DBean%2Bleaf%2Bbeetle%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3DFP-tab-web-t400%26x%3Dwrt&w=432&h=237&imgurl=www.ent.iastate.edu%2Fimages%2Fcoleoptera%2Fbeanlb%2F0212.32beanlbeetle.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ent.iastate.edu%2Fimagegal%2Fcoleoptera%2Fbeanlb%2F0212.32beanlbeetle.html&size=32.3kB&name=0212.32beanlbeetle.jpg&p=Bean+leaf+beetle&type=jpeg&no=9&tt=347&ei=UTF-8. I'll keep an eye out for more and try to take a photo. The larvae doesn't look right though.

This got me thinking about why I'm seeing this bug newly this year, and not last... my neighbor (whom is also my sister) planted cucumber, beans, tomato, pumpkins and a few others so maybe they're coming from all the vegies?

I sprayed the plant with BT, which did absolutely nothing to them except wash some of the poop off their backs. (ewwww) I think I'll try the systemic next, unless the interaction with the BT will be bad. Does anyone know?

Thanks so much!

The BT is only for caterpillars, and it won't kill anything else. Spinosad works very well on caterpillars, plus it also takes care of a few other pests. It's not particularly effective on spider mites though, and the neem would be better for that.

One of the dangers of using one pesticide all the time is that the pests will become resistant. It's better to use a particular pesticide for no more than three treatments in a row, and then switch to another one. After three treatments, you can then switch back to the first one. I've been switching between neem oil and spinosad.

Also, I don't know if this applies to your situation, but I noticed that when I stopped having Terminix come out and spray insecticides all around the perimeter of the house, all my beneficials (beneficial bugs, plus a toad and several geckos) came back and my bad bug population decreased.

If you use a systemic, you also risk killing all your beneficials. As a general rule, with pest control, less is more. Always use the least toxic method you need to get the job done.

One tablespoon of disk soap in a gallon of water . mist until it drips off leaf go to next leaf . Add 1/2 to 1 cup of alcohol mist until it drips off leaf [ only one leaf to see if it is too strong ] . You can also add a spoon of flour . I would wear goggles when spraying .
Buy a package of lady bugs , put them in refrigor till dark outside , dump them at the bottom of plant . AS they warm up they start climbing and eating by morning most will have flown away . They will eat any bugs - eggs they find .
Most of BT is killed by sunlight , so spray in evening after sun goes down but you can still see . Use distilled water some water companies add chemicals that kill BT .

I am far from an expert, but recently I posted about little buggies on my basil and the dish soap spray worked quite well. I also found a lady bug just ambling around aimlessly out front one day, so relocated her to my herb garden. Don't know if she's been doing anything really, but no more bugs (knock wood).

Thanks so much for all these remedies! I'll print this thread to try them out one by one until something works. Ironically, I just went out and inspected some of the plants that I sprayed last night with the BT and there were still tons of caterpillars muching away. I squished what I could see, but I'm wondering where I went wrong - maybe because I used tap water.

Hello Again,

I have a question about the BT. I don't think I gave it a fair shake, because it does seem like it worked afterall. I guess I was expecting to see immediate results, but perhaps it takes a while for them to eat the poison and die? I sprayed it on my morning glory at the same time as the brug, and you'd be amazed at the difference 8 days later! It went from swiss cheese to a nice plant again! I never did see the cats on it, but whatever was eating it seems to have moved on. I'm very excited! :))))

Coincidence?

Thanks, Christina

BT is not an immediate killer. they have to ingest it and even if you see them walking around on the plant, once they take a bite, they are history, albeit a slow one. sorry if someone already said this, but please do take the time to use the proper "bug" killer for the target bug. it is more cost effective in the long run too. it gives you a chance to inspect your plants and decide if spraying is really called for or maybe just a squash with a gloved hand. if you spray or drench something into your whole garden, you will never have the enjoyment of the good bugs, the bees, the birds, etc. you can also be merciful once in a while too at your discretion, say... leaving some aphids or the occasional stinkbug or grasshopper. you will love your garden so much more by taking the time. personally i wouldn't want to set foot in a garden sprayed with something that had the power to kill everything in it (unless i had a hasmat (sp?) suit on)!

well said. Thank you

I've finally spotted what the larvae turned into. They are actually quite pretty and don't appear to be eating my leaves. Are they destructive? Here's a photo. Unless someone knows better, I'd say these are definitely the bean leaf beetle.

This message was edited Aug 18, 2006 1:51 PM

It looks like a cucumber beetle to me, they are bad news on vegetables. If you don't have too many I would just flick them into soapy water.

I don't have vegies, but my sister does on the other side of the fence. Should we both do the flick and dunk trick, or should she be doing something more agressive to save the vegies?

This message was edited Aug 18, 2006 1:51 PM

cns, do a Google on the beetle and you can see what and how they do the damage. Then you can decide, personally I wouldn't want them around my veggies. The flick and dunk is the least poisonous and alot of work lol

CNSWIFT,
Personally, I would get aggressive as you need to. And the BEST bug spray is the one that works BEST FOR YOU AND YOUR SITUATION. I like malathion/diazanon, and such, but they are not for everyone. You have to decide what will do the job BEST for YOU.

If your sister is growing vegies on the other side of the fence, I'd recommend you check with her before you spray on your side of the fence. Chemicals can travel further than you think. Your sister may not appreciate your choice of pesticide in her meals.

I have a bottle each of bioNeem and Pyola to use as a last resort. So far I have not needed to open them, but if the infestation were too severe to "flick & dunk" and it became a choice between feeding my family or the bugs, I'd use them.

We try to use the least toxic means possible, both for the planet and for our own and our pets health. I've placed companion plants around the vegetable garden to attract beneficials. We've been hand picking the cucumber beetles when found and working on the plant nutrition to make the plants less attractive to pests. Spraying liquid kelp solution seems to both feed the plants and make them less tasty to the bugs. So far we've been able to keep any insect damage to a minimum with an integrated approach.

that is really impressive, good for you! So far all I've sprayed on the brug is neem oil for spider mites, and BT which was innefective on this pest but great against the caterpillars. I try to go least toxic or nothing at all, for safety with my dog. (Even the very plant itself is considered poisonous, so I have it planted behind several plants and with a wire cage surrounding it.) I hope I didn't sound callous with all those poison bottles, I don't spray needlessly, I just had them and was looking to educate myself. Some of those bottles are seriously old (ie: I think I bought the superfine oil about 10 years ago). The more I read, the more I'm finding that imidicloprid is reccommended and it seems to be more accepted as a safe alternative that can even be used arounds pets. Yes, I'll discuss with my Sister.