Deer in our backyard

We put a deer feeder up in the back yard and this fellow came by for a snack!

Here is another pic of the young does at the feeder. Yesterday there was a mother and fawn,but I didnt have the camera handy.

violet_grower, welcome to Dave's Garden. It looks like you have your own photography studio. The buck in the first photo is turning into a nice 8 point. If he keeps coming back, he 'll be an excellent wildlife subject to photograph.

Thank you for sharing.

violet_grower_____My dh loves anything to do with deer.When he comes in the house I'll have to show him your pictures. They turned out very good.

They love pears too.

here's one more.

Awesome ! What do you put in their feeders ?

Corn and this deer pellet stuff they like( looks like pellet horse feed). We buy it at the farm store in town. SInce hunting season has started not many are stopping by now. I think they are now waiting until night time.

This is not "Gardening for Wildlife"--I would hope this post is removed by the admins. Feeding deer is illegal in many states, and definitely discouraged in all.

Actually...this forum IS 'Gardening for Wildlife'.

Violet - those are lovely pictures! I could only wish to be so lucky as to have them in my own yard.

Kevin, if this is the way you feel, might I suggest the "Gardening Foes" forum to you? This forum is for those who enjoy the wildlife their garden brings.

One wouldn't think they were lucky if all the plants they painstakingly put in to feed other wildlife is chewed off, leaving nothing. I recently spent 3 weeks at my parents second home in AR. It was a daily occurrence to have 15 head of deer in the yard, eating everything in sight. After my parents spent money out the ying yang landscaping. It's not natural nor normal to have that many head of deer in one place. Never in my wildest dreams would I encourage them to eat anything in my yard. Kevin is right, it's illegal to feed in most states and definitely discouraged in all.

You are not gardening for wildlife, you are feeding deer, like cattle, in order to bring them into your yard in large numbers. That's baiting for semi-domesticated wildlife, and involves no gardening at all.

Violets pictures are beautiful and there is no need for an argument. I'm just going to enjoy the lovely deer and wish I had them as well.

Be careful for what you wish for... deer though beautiful, can be a huge nuisance.

Feeding deer causes an artificial concentration of animals that contributes to the transmission of disease and causes habitat damage, both are serious concerns where we live and in many other states.

I am all too familiar with why the other member stated-

Deer are inarguably magnificent animals, providing their numbers are reduced to that which can sustain their health as well as the health of us humans. Their negative impact on the environment is well documented hence feeding deer is not viewed in a favorable light and is actually deemed counter productive to gardening for wildlife.

Artificially feeding deer is not in their best interests or in our best interests for a multitude of reasons which have been discussed in numerous other threads as well as on countless other sites on the Internet. Many gardeners who Garden For Wildlife view deer as Garden Foes. Public Health Officials view deer in a considerably more unfavorable light. Given this thread was started in the Gardening For Wildlife Forum as opposed to the Garden Foes Forum, It's only natural for people who practice sustainable gardening to comment so please try hard not to get mad when others openly and honestly express their fear of deer.

Here are some threads that outline some of the issues which is why I kind of have to agree that this thread should be moved to the Garden Foes Forum. These are only threads that I participated in regarding deer. There are literally thousands of threads out there that illustrate the flip side of the coin with deer.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/589280/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/462128/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/609107/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/595401/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/584182/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/589897/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/655680/

If anyone is interested, there is a very straight forward article which basically outlines why people who Garden For Wildlife want their numbers reduced substantially written by Eric Ness titled "Oh Deer".
http://www.discover.com/issues/mar-03/features/featdeer/

I know they are beautiful and I know there are gardeners who like to look out their windows and see them grazing peacefully but pease don't cyber stone those who have an opposing view of the deer based on personal experiences.

Well I find this quite amusing... as I had a TWO WILDLIFE BIOLOGISTS and an Arkansas GAME WARDEN here and we talked about my feeder and feeding schedules. It is not ILLEGAL in my state..nor is it frowned upon. In fact the biologist suggest feed I can purchase to HELP the deer. I can purchase feed to help the mothers of fawns produce milk and good nutrition for their fawns and the deer of any age group so they will grow healthy and strong. So Kevin I do not know where you got your info but im sorry..its not correct. I live on top of a mountain and as far as my garden, its natural...I do not want to alter the landscape, I leave it just as God made it. If I had flowers and vegetables I would enclose in a fence so the deer would not eat them. But due to the fact they were here way before me,they are welcome to pass thru my 40 acres anytime they wish,and have a snack on the way. If you wanted a garden without deer problems I would suggest you sell your property and move to the city where you can grow without crying about deer bothering your precious plants...its your stupidity for purchasing plants knowing you have a heavy deer population in your area and not fencing it away from them... if moving isnt an option... I would say "deal with it". As far as it isnt "normal" for 15 head of deer in one place....you obviously havent been in the ozark mountains as where we live it VERY normal to see HERDS of 15+ deer. I get my information right from the mouths of the arkansas game & fish biologists and the game wardens . I do not know where you people got your information from....( kiddie cereal box maybe?), but im sorry...I will trust the biologists and wardens in MY area before any of you. If feeding deer is so illegal in my state why is it I can go any Wal-Mart,sporting goods store,and hunting store in my town and buy a feeder?...In fact mine was bought at a wildfife exposition endorsed by the fish and game as a good productive feeder. I am so sorry I offended some people showing a picture I thought SOME would enjoy.I would think "gardening for wildlife" means anything to discuss and encourage wildlife in your vicinity( planting plants for the wildlife's benefit).My 40 acres IS a garden for wildlife ..they are welcome anytime here and I encourage them to come...MY CHOICE. That is why I worked so many years to have what I have now...its what I wanted. I would have never posted it if I was going to be bashed for doing so. I suggest in the future, if you dont like it.... dont deal with it and if you have something to say about anything ...id get my information right fist,so you dont look so ignorant. I would be more than glad to give you Matt's (arkansas wildlife biologist) phone number so he can "enlighten" you on whats correct about wildlife management and feeding.In the future I will not post anymore pictures of my wildlife...there are too many dumb people's remarks I have to deal with for doing so.

I didn't say it was illegal to feed deer in your state, I said in many states. A look at your own state's AGFC website shows that they discourage feeding of deer. They also state that target population numbers for your area in the Ozarks is 15-20 deer per forested square mile. If you see 15 at once, chances are the population numbers are too high.

Why? You said you leave your 40 acres natural, "just as God made it"--why do the deer need supplemental nutrition? These are wild animals, not cattle.



I am not sure how old you are, but here is some history for your state. In 1916, statewide deer population was estimated to be 2,000 animals, and by 1930 was reduced to less than 500 statewide. In 1950, there were 31,500. By 1975, there were 400,000. Today, there are well over a million. So, a large deer population is a very recent phenomenon.



I'm not crying, I'm not stupid, and I have 3 acres of exclusion fencing to keep the herds of deer out. The stupid person lives down the road--she illegally feeds the deer, up to 30 at once. The only people crying are those injured or killed when their cars hit that herd.



Exactly! Planting for wildlife benefit--I don't think the feeder qualifies.

You can read all about your own state here http://www.agfc.com/pdf/deer_mgmt_plan_99.pdf As ignorant as I am, I was able to find the facts in a matter of minutes, even through the tears flowing out from all my crying.

Guys - there's always a big argument when someone posts pictures of deer. Just for the sake of peace, why don't ya'll just let us folks who do like deer, share our thoughts, stories, and pictures with each other? Just once, don't bombard a deer thread. You've all made it very clear in the past how you feel. And there are those of us who would like to be able to have a discussion with other deer lovers without any ugliness. I think most folks who look at this forum know where you stand. And that's ok. You're entitled to your opinions. But please allow us who oppose your views the opportunity to talk to each other. Please?

Thats strange Kevin..then why didnt the biologist "discourage" me from feeding? Why did he give me info on what to feed to benefit the deer?
And dont worry too much about the deer population here...my husband is an avid hunter and Im sure he will do his part to help on that issue shortly.Ohh and just so you dont worry, the feeder is NOT anywhere near where he hunts, so dont even go there.I wouldnt want you to think im baiting and feeding deer illegally, but then if I was i'm sure mr. biologist and mr.game warden would have mentioned it when they were here.
The deer need supplemental feeding because I CHOOSE to do it..I dont have any neighbors to complain to me about it,thats why I bought 40 acres and unless the biologist tells me to stop I WILL continue to do so.
Its MY property and I can do as I wish on it legally..too bad if people dont agree..if you want to pay my bills then you can tell me whats appropriate and whats not.... and voice your opinion otherwise .I would suggest when you see a deer picture thread..pass it on by.......
AS far as the feeder issue..all I did was take a picture of the deer at my feeder,for peoples enjoyment..if you are against it and do not like it PLEASE keep it to yourself and not visit this thread and leave the people alone that DO enjoy it,im sure I speak for everyone with the same feelings that we do NOT want to hear your opinions about shame on us for having deer..taking pictures and God forbid...a feeder!!!!
I had no idea that I would get a rash of bashing and a bunch of information I really could care less about from you and others just for two lousy deer pictures!!!!!.Do you and the other bashers not have a life??It seems like you dont. May I suggest you get together with the other bashers and form a "I dont have a life" support group thread,instead of going off on peoples deer pictures.I could care less and I will not waste my time again on this threads subject..I will stick with the violet thread...seems the people there are more mature and dont bash others.And again..I am sooOO sorry I offended you with my little deer picture! No more will be said about this issue by me,so your opinions,if any ...will fall deaf on my ears,so to speak.
Knolan..well said..but some people dont have a life and have nothing better to do, thats why I will not come back to Gardening for wildlife thread....hang in there and I hope you can enjoy this thread without the bashers.

I'm the one who said I saw 15 deer every single day. I could set my watch by it. And I was in AR, Bull Shoals to be exact. In TOWN. Not out on 40 acres, but in a town of 2000, surrounded by a lake. The deer don't swim across the lake to get there, they walk along the highways. I have no clue how long you've lived there. My parents have had this house down there for 30 yrs. It wasn't like this back then, or 20 yrs ago, or even 5 yrs. I also know, for a fact, that the Corp of Engineers down there stopped a family from feeding the deer. The reason given was there are too many of them and they were ruining the "natural areas".

I am also one who has cried 3 times from having a deer run into my car. I didn't hit them, they hit me. The last one, I screeched almost to a halt when a big buck walked into the side of my car. I had to have a new door, a new side mirror, a new front 1/4 panel. All that doing a mere 10 miles an hour when it walked into me. I'm also in IL, not exactly known as a hilly terrain state. Unlike AR. Up, down, 15 mph curves, etc etc.....

Violet, I'm really sorry to see you go. Those pictures really are lovely.

For everyone opposing deer in your yards, I have a compromise that might work in the future (there really is a lot of us who would like to carry on a meaningful conversation about these beautiful creatures). How about the next time someone starts a deer thread, instead of going there and bashing the poster and their beliefs, why don't you just start your own thread saying "I oppose the hand feeding of deer" or whatever other specific reason you don't care for them. That way, those who share your views can read it and post, those that might not share your views but are open for enlightenment can read it and those that don't want to read it, don't have to. You don't have to read the "Fors" either.

This really does ruffle feathers when there's no need to and we're all gardeners, and in my experience, that means we're all pretty good people. Just people that have opposing beliefs on some things.

Terry - I meant to say, that must have been horrifying for you. I can certainly understand your feelings.

Terry - I am glad that you were not hurt in your deer accidents.

I've had three deer and car accidents but thankfully only had alot of car damage and no people damage. I do know people who were not as fortunate...

Even though I enjoy watching deer and looking a pictures of deer, I don't mind reading about the impact the over population of deer is having on our ecosystems. I don't understand why you cannot post pictures, enjoy them and simultaneously discuss the problems that some people have with deer. Does it have to be one or the other?

The picture of the buck in velvet is very nice.
I also enjoyed reading the Eric Ness article that EQ posted.

Joepyeweed - I agree, it shouldn't have to be one or the other but inevitably, it always gets ugly. Time and time again. It seems to have happened on the last 3 or 4 threads regarding deer. I can certainly understand all of the varying viewpoints (I too had a deer run into my father's car as a child, ruined the car....and it was a pregnant doe.....the only time I've ever seen my father cry) but some people are so very PRO or CON that keeping emotions out of it appears to be impossible. So, instead of arguing, why don't the sides agree to disagree and make a compromise?

Thank you, no nobody was ever hurt, physically. Emotionally, it sure does a toll. The first time, coming home from Peoria, my daughter was about 4 and tired. I didn't know it, but she took her seat belt off (she was in the back seat) and was lying across the seat. She landed on the floor. There were 4 crossing the road, I didn't have a chance. It shakes you up, that's for sure. Second time I was on the interstate, going shopping when one ran across the westbound lane into the eastbound. I didn't have time to do anything. Scared the bejeebers out of me though. I can still see that deer face sliding down my windshield. That last time, it was my husband, daughter and myself. It was dark. I just couldn't believe the damage that buck did when I was barely moving.

I agree with joe in that we can have a discussion on the problems associated with deer while enjoying a picture. I didn't feel anyone bashed the OP. Honest opinions were given and why.

This Gardening for Wildlife was started and added for the discussion of gardening for wildlife. There's another forum here titled, I believe, Wildlife, that people seem to just post pics on. If all you want to do is post a pic and not talk about the whys of attracting a certain animal, and have a discussion on it, then perhaps that forum would be a better forum for it? It's under the home tab, in case that's what anybody else wants to do.

Terry - that's scary. Thank goodness no one was hurt.

I certainly think that's a reasonable compromise. Now...how we do get the message out? Hopefully, some folks will have read this and just start posting over there.

And I agree, there were some good, relevent facts posted. I always like to read EQ's posts because they are backed up with good, solid information. But things did start to get ugly and I think the original poster just wanted to share the loveliness she is able to experience in her yard. And I'm in awe of it.

'Wildlife' is a good place for us to go if we just want to talk about the good stuff and share pictures.

This is only my opinion, but I feel that when reading a written word on a forum that it's sometimes hard to read it the way the person intended it. Since I personally know Equil and Kevin, I can hear them saying it and know they meant no disrespect by what they typed, they were giving their opinion. joe's been around on the same forums as I have, so I can't hear her, I've gotten used to how she writes. I feel what's needed, is for people to not feel attacked because somebody doesn't agree with them. Because they have a different opinion. I did feel the OP went on the attack with her written word. I'm sure because she felt attacked and was doing what most people do. I've been on various forums for years now and have learned to always give the benefit of the doubt to the person typing. Unless they follow you around on different threads and always seem to attack, that's different. I garden for wildlife to bring in many animals, but deer currently aren't present in town here. I hope they don't become as common place as some want to believe. Deer aren't the sort of wildlife I want here. I've spent a lot of time and money trying to recreate what I feel might of once been here, even though I am in town and on a small lot. If deer moved in, all my plants would be gone, or I'd have to have Kevin come and put up a fence around my lot like he's got around his. You know the saying when you're driving and see a deer.....if there's one, there's gotta be more...and there always is. I don't want to look out my window and see 15 deer, but it seems like that's where we're heading. Lack of hunters, lack of culling, I don't know. I honestly hope the OP comes back when she's calmer and see that what anyone who disagreed with her was trying to do was to simply educate. Make sense? Sometimes I only make sense in my own head.....:o)

Well said, Terry. Personally, I was never under the impression that EQ was attacking just making a statement based on facts. Kevin - I'm a little 'iffy'...he can come across pretty harsh but as you say, some times the way we read something is not the way the poster intended and the benefit of the doubt never hurts. So, Kevin...no hard feelings?

I believe that Violet just wanted to post her pictures and have a nice discussion with those of us that share her views. Not only is there a difference in opinion on the deer issue, there's obviously a difference of opinion as to what the 'gardening for wildlife' forum is as well. And I'm not sure which side is correct on that one.

I think it will help for there to be a place to go for folks who like deer and just want to share their stories in a 'safe' environment, i.e. would rather not hear opposing views or get attacked. This issue has gotten so ugly in the past and it seemed like it was on the verge of a repeat which I really don't think was the intention of anyone.

Anyway, I think a good compromise has been reached. I can't speak for anyone else but I really think this should resolve the issue.

Your garden sounds lovely, Terry. Hope to see ya around on the threads.

Kristi

Kristi, don't let Kevin fool ya. He's just a big teddy bear with a heart of gold. I guess I haven't followed any threads about deer on this gardening for wildlife forum, I know there as been some in others. The other wildlife forum is mostly pictures as I said before. Basically no discussion going on as to the attracting of them, that's why this forum was started. Equil will correct me if I'm wrong. But since she's working late, I don't have to worry about me being wrong for awhile...lol....j/k

Thank you! My garden is basically our whole lot, what there is of it anyway (62x130 or 60x132, I can never keep it straight!). I have a little bit of grass left that was supposed to get killed off this fall and reseeded with a no mow mix, but time got away from me with every thing else we've been doing. My plants are little, so in a few years maybe I can actually post some pictures that my plants will show up on. My little mini prairie is coming along well, but you know perennials, they grow like gangbusters. Who said native plants spend their first years putting down roots?

Kristi, I will adopt you at any time as you know!!! They don't come any sweeter than you, and you are wise beyond your years.

Awwww Murmur...you're making me blush.

Terry - LOL - isnt that how it always works out? The person we think is a big old meany ends up being the biggest teddy bear? Good luck with that prairie. I've got a long way to go on my yard myself but I'm having fun planning every single minute.

I was not going to say one negative thing, not even one, but I can't help myself. It would take an awful lot to convince me that any of the people who made Violet_Grower feel so badly are nice - nice people do not attack and crush people. They absolutely do not. Voicing an opinion is one thing, and totally acceptable - bashing is another. I'm glad to know there is another forum where pictures can perhaps be posted without attack.

One thing is for sure, if I get any pics of deer and I want to post them then that's what I'm going to do. I don't care what negative responses I get! Bring it on! It's a free country and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't have to read your post or respond to it. If I could block some people I would gladly do it.

Well, I did say that I can't speak for anybody else. I just wish we could post where we want, when we want, without getting bashed. Polite discussion of differences should be able to occur, the problem is, it just doesn't seem to be polite. Maybe there is no resolving the problem.

I'll adopt you any time as well, Fly. Any time at all!

Kristi & Fly can be my twins.

Well, I should have also said that I think with Terry and Joepeyweed's help, we CAN find a solution.

I just said this is the gardening for wildlife forum, and a thread based on artificially feeding them is not appropriate. For that, I was called ignorant, stupid, dumb, and a crybaby. Who's mean?

Nobody attacked violet as far as I can tell. I see people above trying to educate somebody they possibly didn't feel knew better. That's exactly what I did, I told of my own experience down in AR where she lives. I told of the Corp of Engineers telling the people across the street to STOP feeding the deer as it was causing harm to the natural areas with so many deer. She came back and said she'd talked to botanists and game wardens, so she feels she is educated. Kevin came back on and provided links that backed up what he was saying. Equil also provided educational links. I never saw a harsh word, I never saw Kevin, Equil, myself, joe, anybody come and attack violet. It looked to me like an intelligent discussion that others decided was nasty when there was no nasty involved. If I'm wrong, please provide me with what you feel is an attack on violet. Information and opinions flowed both ways. Please help me understand where it was not just opinions being shared, but it was bashing. I'm confused, I truly am.

I come here to learn (to be educated) and to get others opinions (that differ from my own). I'm sorry that you all don't want others opinions and only want to hear an opinion that reflects your own. Again, I'm confused at the use of the word bash when it comes to this thread.