Using Milk for folar disease control

I've seen a lot about the success of using milk for controlling powdery mildew.

I know it's been discussed a lot, but can anyone tell me if it is effective against other folar diseases?

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/601043/

I know the older folks around here have used it for a long time, but only for fungal things.

Ok for those of us who dispose of their unused portion of milk / water solution in our grass. Also what if you have a leche field? will that harm the local water?
just wondering , so i know what not to do :) don't want to contaminate my water.
sue

taynors, I think the key is the amount of milk you are disposing and where. The warning that Baa posted about the contamination to a river in the UK was from a dairy or restaurant disposing of a large volume of milk down a sink that flowed directly to the river. If you are pouring it in your lawn, the milk needs to pass through the plant roots and soil before it reaches your leach field. Microbes in the soil would be munching on the proteins and sugars in the milk.

good to know garden, thanks, i feel better know :)
sue

Actually that was just an example of the damage milk causes if it gets into the waterways. It was an expansion on a remark I made in a previous discussion, same subject, that someone asked more about. It is part of why I don't personally like this remedy and if people are going to use it then I'd encourage anyone to be very careful how he or she disposes of it. Preferably the gardener only makes enough to use on the day or drink or in some way utilise the remainder of the container and sprayer if it is of course "food safe" clean.

I mentioned in my example "a business", I didn't specify what (because it's a very powerful company), but I can assure you it wasn't a dairy, I was a dairyman some years ago.

I'm not going to start lecturing on what I think anyone ought to use but I do think that a lot of facts go missing when wonder cure or a control you can make easily at home crops up since many sites with this information neglect to tell you a number of things, dilutions, possible effects if not used correctly or even the type of milk that seems to yield the best results. This solution is being tested right now for crops and I'll be interested in the results.

As with all disease control concoctions/chemicals, one should not rely upon one type all the time. Fungal diseases can become resistant very quickly, it would be a shame to lose the potential of a control through over use.

Good points Baa. Although I agree that all sides of treatments are not always addressed, I do think the milk treatment for powdery mildew is one of the least toxic if used correctly. The gardeners that I know who are interested in least toxic and organic treatments are not prone to waste. They only mix up enough to spray the plants, with little left over. The 1/2 cup or so at the bottom of the sprayer gets poured into the bed with the veggies.

There are many things that are placed in the garden soil. I do not think the milk solution used for mildew control would be any more toxic to the local water supply than using fish emulsion, guano or other fertilizers on the garden bed.

I'm not trying to change your mind Garden Mermaid,you are as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine, I'm merely offering another side and I hope something for people to consider carefully before using or continuing to use this method.

It's a myth to say gardeners are always careful and always care for their environment, you are indeed fortunate in the people you know. Not everyone who is interested in the less toxic effects of pesticides will use this. As a home remedy which uses just milk and water it's practically free and that attracts a lot of people when faced with an expensive pesticide as an alternative.

Fair enought Baa. I'm not trying to change your mind either. We're currently gardening in an organic community garden. When we were farming we were using organic and bio-dynamic methods, so most of the growing community we are/have been in contact with tend to be more interested in the cycles of life and interactions in the garden and fields.

I think anything that one uses whether it be milk, water, dirt, compost - when misused or used to excess and disposed of improperly it is bad for us and our environment. The number one pollutant in our waterways is soil. Shall we discourge the use of soil in our gardens because when disposed of improperly it pollutes our waters?





This message was edited Sep 20, 2006 3:48 PM

jpw,

On farms where there are open ditches there are usually places where runoff water runs to the dich directly. If the amount and frequentcy of this runoff is much, it can make gulleys. This accounts for a lot of silt in waterways. I have noticed that a pile of stones placed at the end of these gulleys slows the water and can reduce silt in the diches by a lot I believe.

Joepyeweed

Shall we discourge the use of soil in our gardens because when disposed of improperly it pollutes our waters?

If people are using and/or disposing of soil or any other pollutant where it's a potential risk to the environment then making information available about the potential problems allows people to make up their own mind.

I'm not saying people shouldn't ever use it, what I am asking is that people are informed about what they are using and these are the very reasons I personally dislike this method. The waterways bit has been at the forefront because people, including myself, have discussed that more but milk's pollutant qualities are not the only reason.

I am waiting to see if the milk solution is going to be considered by the organic authorities as an organic treatment, currently it's merely a homemade remedy. As a naturally occurring substance it may well be, although Bordeaux Mixture is also considered organic (which contains copper suphate and slaked lime, which aren't naturally occurring). If naturally occuring substances are considered organic then why not DDT, that contains naturally occuring substances ............ and no I'm not serious (and yes it was flippant) but it does raise the question what really makes a pesticide organic?

My point, now I've finally got around to it, is that there are many many pitfalls to using organic or conventional pesticides and I think one of the best ethics of organic gardening/farming, and if truth be told, conventional gardening and farming too, is that prevention is better than cure.

More and more organic pesticide products are being sold and it seems, as gardners, we are no longer expected to learn other organic/environmentally friendly methods of prevention or control or even accept that sometimes letting a disease run it's course doesn't always affect the plant adversly in the long run and that pesiticdes are only a very last resort. We are now merely expected to switch chemical products and I find that difficult to marry to my idea of organic gardening.

I'm with you Baa, I guess if you have to use a pesticide at all using an organic one is preferable to a non-organic one, but many of them still kill the good bugs along with the bad, so I try to avoid using them except as a last resort. I think when organic pesticides first came out, they tended to be things like horticultural oil or insecticidal soap which control a narrower range of pests, but now it's getting to be where there are organic versions of some more broad-acting insecticides (pyrethrins come to mind) and I think because we've been educated that organic and natural = good, people don't understand that using an organic product where the pyrethrins were extracted from a daisy isn't really much better than using a product that has synthetic pyrethrins. I think Integrated Pest Management is the real way to go on controlling pests, that way you're minimizing the use of any chemicals at all, organic or not.

I certainly agree in many cases fungals and pests can coexist with our gardens and not do any significant harm. And perhaps some people are too quick to pull out the fungicide or the pesticide needlessly.

Powdery mildew takes over some of my mints and my squash every year. I've never had to treat it though. Usually the mildew starts to show up at this time of year 'cuz its cool and damp. But I've already harvested my squash. If the mildew showed up earlier, I might consider treating it....

A lot of people have success using milk for fungal control. In my opinion, if a person uses organic milk that it would be an organic treatment. Its just seemed like an illogical scare tactic to discourage the use of milk based upon what happens when its overused or disposed of improperly. Though I do agree its importanat to point that information out.

There are many so-called "organic" treatments that scare me. I frequently hear recommending the use of 20% vinegar, diatomaciaous earth, pyrethrines - and like milk, all of these organic methods can be just as harmful if used improperly. And yes it is important to dicuss the disadvantages as well as the advantages.

And though preventative measures for fungal control are certainly the safest - like proper air circulation and moisture control. Once the mildew is there and its doing damage - I would much rather see someone choose to use a milk foliar spray than a synthetic fungicide.

I'm simply responding to reasonable discussions with what is essentially my own opinion on the subject, I haven't started any threads on this. I would strongly encourage everyone to do their own research and not to take just my or anyone elses word for it. Considering my previous career, how could I be anything but cock-a-hoop over another selling point to milk?

I've nothing to gain by using as you called it "illogical scare tactic", it's done me nor my reputation here no personal good or great pleasure to sit and type any of it, it's certainly not stopped people using it but none of these were ever the point in the first place! Having a balanced discussion and sharing/gaining further information with interested people was the point to my posts, that's pretty much the point to all of my posts on DG.

Baa, your posts are very much appreciated in helping to keep everyone informed and stimulating discussion on all sides of these issues. :-)

Ecrane

I think you are right that there is a tendancy to equate organic with natural and therefore good/non-harmful. I remember a talk we were given at college about the findings of beetle bank research when I was at college and thinking what a great idea it was, seems a life time ago now but it was only about 15 years ago LOL.

Garden Mermaid

Thank you :) I always enjoy hearing other opinions and experiences even if I don't necessarily always share the views, they often cause me to reconsider my own. I'm about as confrontational as a marshmallow normally but I do love a good discussion and debate!

I have had good luck using Turf & Garden Pro. we can get it at Ace Hardware stores here in Central Florida but if it is not available there you can get it on-line at www.turfprousa.com/
I have been able to completely get rid of the black sooty mold that white flies leave on citrus trees and fruit. My leaves are shinny green and the fruit has no discoloration for the first time in almost 40 years. I get it in their spray bottle and just spray my trees and shrubs.