Systemic white fly killer?

Does anyone know of a good one?
I have a patio garden, and no water hose, so I can't just spray them off. Neem oil hasn't worked, and now I have an absolute infestation that's killing some of my toughest plants. (Whoever heard of *million bells* dying???)

LAMCAROLYN,
I am not sure there is a systemic for that, but who knows. If it were me, I'd get out the BIG guns and spray them with something that insures their NON-returning, if you know what I mean, hehehe.


Best;
bluelytes

Soil drench with Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub Insecticide mixed at 1oz/Gallon of Water. It will take a bit to take effect but will be effective for close to a Year

Iamcarolyn,
What are the whiteflies attacking there? We've had a problem out here the last several years with huge infestations on hibiscus, Rose of Sharon, Perennial morning glories.....really bad. It was mentioned by one of our news people here to use worm castings as mulch 1 inch deep under affected plants. It works. It would probably depend on how many things you're having attacked as to whether that's a viable option for you.
Sherry

Marathon is a good systemic, you can get granular and put it around the base of the plants and water in.

The Tree and Shrub Insecticide and Marathon have the same active ingredient called Imadacloprid. The Marathon granules are better for soil application but it usually is prohibitively expensive.

Thanks for the suggestions, y'all! Luckily, I already have some Bayer, I just didn't realize it was okay for using with my regular potted plants.

Sherry, the whiteflies have pretty much gone nuts here. They're going after my tomatoes, potted plants (million bells, fuschias, cigar plant, portulacas), and my petunia baskets. It's getting bad enough that they're *killing* my plants, and you can see the white dots all over the underside of the leaves. It's enough to drive a girl nuts. The annoying part is that all my pots are planted with 1/3 worm castings. I think that kept the aphids away, but not so much on the whiteflies.

The Bayer product works OK IMO, I use an Ortho product called "Orthonex aka Systemic Insect Killer". I think the most important part of any product is to follow through with the 3 seperate applications spaced 7-10 days apart. Otherwise you shouldn't even bother putting it down at all. This timing follows the pests reproductive lifecycle as I don't think the pesticides can kill the eggs of flies or mites. I don't quite understand how come this "systemic" still takes atleast 3 applications for mites and white flies. You'd think since it's a systemic, the plant would/should contain enough pesticide to control the pests. I thought that was the whole reasoning behind buying/using a systemic, 1 application lasting and killing for long periods of time. Go figure

This is the worst year ever for whiteflies here, they usually aren't seen until August. This year they showed up in Spring and have really done a number on my Hibiscus. I HATE these things and I hate using chemicals but I saw no other options.
I usually order a Garden variety pack of beneficial insect's every spring from planetnatural.com and 1 of the bugs in that pack is a white fly parasite. This is the 1st year in the last 5 or so I didn't buy any and it is the 1st year I've seen whiteflies like this. I don't think this years problems has anything to do with me not buying the beneficial insect's, I think it's a result of a very mild winter but I don't know about that 1 either.
I also have to think using these pesticides result in the killing of all my beneficial insect's too. Something is keeping my hummingbird's away and I'm not seeing as many butterflies either. I wished there was a way to KNOW what is causing all of these different problems.The only thing I know for sure is that I'm not sure of anything else...LOL I need a check up from the neck up, Lord help me.
Goodluck,
JD

Whitefly has been bad here too. I use orthenex myself on my Confederate Roses which were infested. I spray twice with it . The second spray is about 4 - 5 days later with orthenex then finish up with Pyola which is an oil based plant based insecticide .. the Pyola will kill the eggs. The first spray gets around 1/2 of them, the 2nd the rest and the Pyola finished them off .. I always spray in the late evenings making sure I get the underside of the leaves really saturated.

X

X, Where do you find Pyola? I'm giving up on these so called systemics. I've followed the directions and even applied it more than recomended. I quit using hose end sprayers since it was harder to ensure good coverage. I used the pump up spayers to literally fog the undersides of the leaves really well. The end result has been the running off of all the butterflies and hummingbird's, the whiteflies are as thick or thicker than ever. We've almost given up this battle but since it's still July, I can't give up yet. I need to find a better way to combat these things that doesn't kill everything. It's beginning to take the fun out of gardening darnit. My hearty hibiscus are normally giants by now, they look more like they've been through a frost! It'sa sad sad site.
Thanks, JD

JLD II;
I am not ENTIRELY SURE, but I dont think that systemics work on white flies.

There are few systemics that really do work on whitefly. Marathon is one, but like Panamon said, it is very expensive. I paid about $ 150/1.5 lb (granular), but you use very little of it per smaller potted plant. It works the best as a preventative-I apply it after I transplant, so the plant already has it in its system before the whiteflies are there.

There is another one that I have that sterlizes the males so that they can't breed anymore, but you have to spray several times to get the larvae and eggs as they mature.

It has been my experience that the best systemics are very expensive-in this instance you do get what you pay for. With a true systemic you don;t have to reapply in 2-3 weeks. Marathon lasts 2 months.

I have found spraying hort oil to be effective-I think it does smother the eggs and larvae and its cheap

FWIW - Cockrell Butterlfy Center here in Houston was having a problem with scale. They didn't know what to do, because they didn't want to kill their butterflies too. With Texas A&M, testing was done, and they determined that Ortho and Orthenex, both systemic, made their way into the flowers and the flowers were then poisonous to butterflies and hummingbirds. Imidacloprid, however, did not go into the flower and so this is the systemic they used to control the scale. Imidacloprid is labeled for use on scale (soft scale, excluding cottony cushion scale) and white fly.

Yes, Orthenex kills butterflies and hummers. So I do not use it on plants that attract them.

Well, I guess tigerlily 123 put ME in MY place, :( hehehe lol. I sit corrected JLD II re: systemics working on whitefly.

Thanks for the info. I just googled the active ingredient and look at the very first thing that popped up. LOL
Imidacloprid
Imidacloprid is a widely used insecticide with relatively low human toxicity. It has raised concerns because of its possible impact on bee populations, ability to cause eggshell thinning in birds, and reduced egg production and hatching success. By David Buffin.
Here is the link I found the above text on: http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Actives/imidaclo.htm
I've noticed the hummingbird's and most all butterflies(except for the plain white one's) seem to notice which plants I've sprayed with the Ortho products and avoid them entirely. I'm just now seeing them returning to our property in the last few days but still aren't eating on my flowers. I'm so happy they can sense it and somehow know to avoid it. It must be a stinky chemical as they even avoided my feeder's that are around the yard and deck. Now that I've seen a few hummer's flying around, I'm going to refill my feeder's and hope they'll bless me with their presence. I sure miss having them around.
Thanks again for your help.
JD

I mostly wanted to point out that though imidicloprid is a better systemic as far as I know in terms of beneficials - though the link JLD gave is now worrying me quite a bit - it is not labeled for use on tomatoes or other food plants as far as I know.

My suggestion would be - and this won't be too popular an opinion I know - find the plants that the whiteflies like best, such as gardenias, and get rid of those suckers. I try not to have plants in my garden that are "bug magnets". That is one reason why I don't grow brussels sprouts any more afetr that one try - they attracted every insect in the area. Once I got rid of them, MUCH less bugs in the garden. And don't get me started on roses - I don't grow them at all.

Night_Bloom, Have you ever seen white fly on Nandina? It's black and I have it!!!! And I don't grow any other white fly attractors, although I have to admit, at least in this area, I have seen white fly on just about everything...But you are right. There are some plants that just are gonna have whitefly, or scale. I don't grow them either. And my nandinas are going to be history too.

Imidacloprid is registered for use on tomatoes, and is used by tomato growers. I read a report that stated that tomato growers would lose 50% of their crop if Imadacloprid were banned. One site said "Imidacloprid is applied at transplanting to nearly 100% of the tomato acreage in Florida for control of the silverleaf whitefly." Just Google tomato + Imidacloprid.

And you don't have to give up roses. Just grow the Old or Antiques Roses. I couldn't do without Souvenir de la Malmaison or Lafter....and there are lots more.

Night_Bloom. It doesn't seem to matter which systemic as everyone I've googled so far all have tons of contraversial information the makers have neglected to mention on the labels. That spooks me pretty hard since the makers are already listing enough dangerous warnings reguarding the precautions we consumer's should be taking when just applying them. On 1 hand they say you can eat products treated with them but don't you dare allow it to make skin contact! LOL
We've never used as many chemicals here as we have this year. I've put down more this year than all the other years combined and the chemicals aren't even doing what they say they will.
I find it so amazing that most butterflies and all the hummingbirds can somehow sense or smell this stuff and know to stay away from the flowers. I'm thinking many of the target pests have the same ability too! LOL It has been a good month now since I've used any and the hummingbirds and butterflies are finally back. The Ortho stuff was so strong, the hummingbirds wouldn't even visit feeder's or come around the yard at all.
As far as plant's that act like pest magnets...I wrote off a few of them so long ago, I can't remember what they were. I have a couple red hibiscus hybrids that are "visited" every fall by whiteflies but this year they(the whiteflies) hit EVERYTHING as soon as they came up. Oh well, hopefully next year will be better;)
JD

Try "googling" whiteflies+"worm castings"
Sherry

since the white fly that are flying around aren't doing the damage (they've been there and done that), you need to concentrate on the eggs they are laying and the larvae that come out and feed on the plant. the only way to insure that these are killed is to spray with a heavier, dormant oil in fall and pick up ALL debris from the plant. otherwise you will continue to have these pests every year. since we are still in the growing season, if your plant isn't too large, you could strip all the leaves, cut the plant back and spray with a light, summer oil. key to the whole thing is picking up the fallen leaves, every one. i would also suggest getting rid of the mulch and put fresh mulch down. white fly are so hard to eradicate and you may never do it completely, but this will certainly help.

Would someone please post a picture of a white fly both here and in the BugFiles.

At times I see a very small white moth shaped critter, is that a White Fly???

Judy

That's what they look like. Very hard to get a picture of, but you can google it, and they have lots of pics there.

And trackin - those flies are still breeding and producing more of those little guys....so you really do want to get rid of the adults too. IMHO, horticultural oil is the best. Smothers the larvae and pupae, and the adults that fly off when you start spraying, come back and get stuck when they land in it.

I also have had luck with worm castings.

I just found this old thread after a season of fighting whiteflies (unsuccessfully) in my new herb garden and half the winter living with them in the herbs I'm overwintering. There is a lot of valuable information here - thanks. I think I'll try imidicloprid. If anyone is still watching this thread, does anyone know what the whitefly cold temperature tolerance is? I wondered if it would help the more hardy plants to give the whiteflies a short "shock" of Minnesota winter. It probably sounds crazy, but I'm not looking forward to May, when I plant the herbs outside again and begin that cycle.

I found this thread looking for hibiscus+pests+control. I didn't notice, until I reached bsulli42, that the last post was Feb. 17, 2007!

I thought this year 2013 was bad for whiteflies! (Port St. Lucie, FL)

I am going to look at Imidacloprid, the Bayer main ingredient in several of their home sprays. I really don't trust Bayer with my safety but for hibiscus, I am not eating anything.

Just something to keep in mind; while Imidacloprid may be the best available at the moment, but
there have been studies that claim it harms Honey Bees, and like all "cure alls", the bugs evolve faster than the chemists , and become immune to them. I'm using it on my orchids, and some other potted plants, but NOT in the ground, where it may kill beneficials, and definitely not on food plants. It's much more labor intensive, but more responsible to alternate organic sprays, following labels closely. When I spot the whitefly eggs on my begonia, I hit it with some insecticidal soap...I gave up Hibiscus years ago, due to Giant white Fly! The only other problem plant for them is my Canna Tropicana...maybe they like large red leaves?

OCCAROL,
Thank you. In NC, I am very cautious to protect honey bees and other pollinators like the bumble bee looking bees and the many small wasp family pollinators. The whiteflies I am fighting are in Port St. Lucie, FL and I have not seen a bee here at all. Possibly the citrus farmers killed them all years ago.

Beside, since the whiteflies came, the hibiscus buds are falling to the ground long before they can produce a pretty flower.

I sprayed twice in the morning with the Bayer stuff, before the breeze started. I may resort to digging up and throwing away all the hibiscus if I can't control the whiteflies.

If you happen to finally get control of whiteflies in house plants, consider using those yellow sticky things to find out early if they're coming back. We had hibiscus for decades and no problem (indoors), but when the white flies showed up it took me literally years to get rid of them. Sometimes I could get them to go away by removing ALL leaves. Findally we just threw out our biggest and most infested plant. We seemed to get control by frequent applications of a spray labeled "white fly" and something else (not at home now.... will post name when I get home) and also insecticidal soap, which I think gets the nymphs. Anyway, no sign all summer when we took them outside. We brought them in and I hung the yellow stick papers, and in a few days I found ONE white fly. I sprayed immediately. None for about 2 weeks. Then ONE. Sprayed again. I'm hoping early detection will be the secret.