"well rotted", how long?

I have consulted our Conservation agent, and our Extension agent about how long it takes for manure to be "well rotted". And got two very different answers. One said that three YEARS might not be long enough, the other said that three MONTHS was plenty. Our soil and water is very alkaline and has lots of salts in it already, but we have a limitless supply of cow manure (which I realize can add more salts). One pile has sat outdoors in all weather for at least three years, and doesn't smell like manure any more. Is it ready to go?

yes it is. The reason the agent couldn't give you an answer is cause they don't have to. I'm sure they were talking safe to compost. LOL

I've found that 3 months in the weather is just fine. If you turn it every couple of weeks , all that much better. The reason to let it sit is because fresh manure will burn your plants.


Here is a great way to make compost that plants love !!
http://paulgadawg.turnwill2.hop.clickbank.net

Thanks everyone for ending my confusion. I suspected the conservation agent didn't know what he was talking about, especially since I haven't killed (or even maimed) anything with manure yet. This forum has been very informative so far.

One thing to consider is that you can use compost even if it isn't perfectly "done". Probably best if it doesn't smell but when I planted my elephant ears, I put raw kitchen veggie scraps in the holes I dug before putting down the bulbs. Boy howdy! Did they get big! I think it is called "in situ" composting. You could probably do a google search if you're interested.

A friend of mine gave me loads of a mixture of straw,goat and sheep manure. I was told I could use it as is and not have to let it sit. I have also read on the internet where some say to let it sit. I also read in another garden forum that a couple people from Australia use it directly on their gardens without haveing it sit.

Has anyone had experiences with these manures and what is your take on them?

I've also read about letting it sit because the ammonia will burn your plants. But in the books I read it recommended six months. I get my horse manure from a guy who mixes it with pine shavings and lets it compost. I think as long as it doesn't smell you'd be fine. Due to climate conditions compost can certainly vary in the amount of time it takes to be "done" but three years seems very excessive. I live in perfect composting weather - hot and humid year round so mine would probably be finished before yours, but I think your eyes and ears are probably your best sensors. If nothing else, you could get a soil testing kit to make sure everything is in the range you want. Heck, even the ammonia testing kits I use for my fishtank would probably work fine.

Melanie

Grab some from deep in the pile and smell it - your nose will tell you a lot about the state of anything that is in the decomposition process.
Your weather will help determine how quickly it "cooks" out, and a test, as Mellie has suggested, would not hurt.
To me, it looks 'fluffy' when ready. But I have normally mixed it with other things so they decompose jointly.

Raw manure goes on in the fall and gets tilled in just before you plant a cover crop. By spring it is ready to go. I would like spring placed manures to be in the range of a year old.
Even so I still like to see mine go on in the fall along with as many leaves as I can reasonably till in with it. Done that way both are in A1 shape by spring. I do this when building my soil. If I was satisfied with the soil condition I would try to only till the additions in a few inches. Two to three inches of raw in the fall is not to much. If you happen to get a slow cold spring.......any raw from any animal, in the spring, could be to much.

Thanks for the comments. I was specifically talking about goat and sheep manure. It was sitting over winter.

Since there are evaluative numbers in some books for manures there will always be strong opinion as too how much and which is best.

If you follow Mother's plan a mixture of all you can find would be best. In general foul is the so called strongest. It should be used very sparingly. It is even stronger when it is dry. All the rest are really not all that much different in my opinion.

As soon as we hook numbers to manures someone will suggest additives to beef up one of more of the NPK values. That is like manufacturing in a scientific classroom when the game should be played from a biological viewpoint.

PH is another matter. PH should be adjusted with minerals to 6.5 - 7.2 for most gardens. The only way one can do this is to have a soil test and find out where you are.

The basic biological approach is as it always has been the use of manures, leaves, compost, remineralization and fall placed cover crop. In the other support list my number one item is every year use of ENDO Mycorrhiza.

Best not to put chicken droppings in garden where leaf veggies
(lettuce, spinach, etc.) grow. Unless they are VERY WELL composted. And I still don't know how long that takes.

We just had a bad experience in that our lettuce was contaminated
from the chicken manure I put in the raised beds where it grew. It was from the chicken house, and most of it had been there about 5 or 6 months. (We had moved the chickens that long ago) Evidently, that was too fresh. The lettuce grew to big, beautiful and lush produce. Everyone who ate it got sick with diarrhea. I'm pretty sure it wasn't from lack of washing.
I wash lettuce 3 times, until it looks limp as a dishrag. We don't think it was 'on' the lettuce, but taken up from the soil 'into' the lettuce. Same as the contaminated lettuce and spinach that was recalled in stores last year.

I had to pull up the whole crop of the most beautiful lettuce I've ever seen, and throw it to the compost. What a painful waste.

After that experience, we are really skiddish about making double sure it has had plenty of time to break down and compost enough to be safe.

No fun having to wear your shirt-tail tucked in your back collar,
while pulling up the crop you were so proud of, days before. LOL

No manure works through the composting prosesses dry or under roof. It must have all the elements of compost and water to mature and become humus. That would be by volume fifteen to twenty times the browns to green ratios with oxygen and water to complete the process in time. Finally the value of the compost is raised in value in direct relationship to the mixed or variety of brown plant materials added to the pile.

Every time someone cooks up an incomplete pile consisting of just a few of their talked about right way to do it additives I always ask.............."where in mother nature is the example of this right way found for observation"? The same is true of manures. Mix it as much as you reasonably can. A little of this and a little of that makes a better total for this will more closely mimic Mother Nature.

Thanks doc. Some of the most painful lessons are the ones I remember best. I won't be doing that again.

For some reason I was under the mistaken impression that after the chicken manure dried and sat for long enough (6 mos.) it would be broken down enough to use.

I don't have a compost pile per sey, but have gathered some good composted material from the under-side of the spot where DH dumps the grass clippings. I usually just mix it into the dirt in the raised beds when it is nice and dark and decomposed. It works well.

I found out that this dosen't work for the chicken stuff.

Thanks for the helpful info on how to do it better.

The DH's grass pile has more goodness too. Used as a light mulch when it is fresh and green it causes your whole biological family to get fired up in the processing. You get a bit more nitrogen from it when it is green....while at the same time it moves to the condition you find at the bottom of the DH piles right on the soil where it will be used.
....In addition the light mulch also attracts worms into the top six inches. That makes more good fertilizer (casts), cools the top six, keeps moisture from evaporoating as quickly, stops some weeds, contributes humus without further work and makes all weeds easier to pull or hoe.
....That's just what you can see happening. The really good stuff you can not see. That is our biological community growing stronger and slowly getting better to grow healthier plants of all types. Very small amounts of raw manure or any that is not fully composted into finished compost (black crumbley gold) can be safely used in the fall of the year and tilled into the top four to six inches. As the soil improves you can use more in the fall because the army of biological critters will be much stronger to attack and convert whatever you throw at it within reason. (in the fall)
.....Finally light till in the fall and plant a cover crop. Most Northeastern growers use winter rye grass. Other cover crops could be better depending on your winter temperatures. You can even do this carefully in tight bands within a flower bed but it must be tilled in the spring or turned under by hand. Most flower bed managers go to permanent mulch and most likely ground wood chips which are free in many communities where I live. Leaf mold or dry leaves are good but they do blow around.
.....The biggest problem I had moving to organic principles was getting my brains adjusted to the idea of using lots of mulch materials. This to some degree and to the clan who write and want perfect everything is just what one can accept. Funny most of us work all week to clean up photo perfect lawns and gardens and then head out to the wilds for weekend relaxing. Our flower pots like mulch too!
.....It should in time become clear that man made chemicals and fertilizers are biocides that work against the healthier soil healthier plant development. It does not make sense at all to me to use harsh chemicals or fertilizers. I have not for the most part used any for the past fifty years. Nobody starved! In contrast my plants all got healthier and produced more and better produce be they food or landscape plants.
.....Rest assured that I made most of the mistakes anyone ever made along the way including using to much chicken poop without composting it first.