Which one for full sun?

I'm replacing a Franklinia, that appears to be dead, on my front lawn- (well, I dug it out & potted it up & stuck it back by the compost pile, just in case it isn't dead). I have planted my Asahi Zuru there (southern exposure, maybe a bit of shading on N/W sides by trees, house-but mostly full sun, slight slope, full clay soil). I have a few more in pots that I want to put in the ground-Germaine's Gyration,Shigitatsu Sawa-would one of these be better for a full sun location?

your're enterimg a dicey area ...full sun for you is not the same for others but between the two I'd do the germains G..mine is in full sun w/o hardly any leaf burn ...but any will burn a bit ..you might want to wait til a cool period and do it of an evening from pot to planted out or wait til fall...mulch well and good luck..David

Thanks for the advice, that's just what I was thinking-that the Germaine's Gyration would be better there-but it's only about 3', while the Asahi Zuru is 5'+. Maybe I'll plant it out there also, & hope that they both do ok. I'm still upset about the Franklinia, it seemed to be doing so well, planted last fall, then it took a nose dive....

I wouldn't put that Shigitatsu Sawa anywhere near full sun! I wrote about my experience a few postings down ... I've heard it can tolerate some sun, but really prefers shade. Good luck - I've been looking for something that can tolerate sun, too!

Right now, I'm babying the Shigitatsu Sawa, right up near the north side of the house, near the water source. The heat here is intense, water (rain & other) has been heavy, but intermittent. I woud like to plant it out at the edge of the yard, west side,heavily shaded by large trees at the park & under some pines, but I'm worried about watering-would you try & plant it now or wait until later in the fall?

My Germaine's Gyration is in full sun too - only planted a couple of months ago but it's taken this heat like a champ. It does go a little red edged on the leaves which is pretty. But don't be afraid to give it a extra water when it's newly planted in all of this heat.

The grower says that he has them in full sun in 100 degree summers.

I'd wait until fall to plant it though. How much watering are you willing to do for the one across the yard? Once it gets "established" then it's not going to require too much. But established can take a good three years. Do you have summer rain where you live? Coming from an arid part of the planet.

Well, THIS summer we've had rain! I probably will wait until fall. I don't mind dragging the sprinkler around, but the dense clay soil is pretty bad-I started a compost pile awhile ago, would like to get chipper-shredder for all our leaves in the fall. My neighbors have lived here for 20 years & their soil is a lot nicer than mine ( & they have less large trees!)

REMEBER Jm's do NOT like compost ...to much nitrogen so go easy on that ...I would suggest ...AND being the buttinsky I am I would suggest mulching your leaves with your mower ...those chipper shredders are NASTY and dangerous ...i screwed up my shoulder for about a year chipping branches with a heavey duty one ...they are also LOUD and you coyuld loose any # of body parts using them if you are not careful ...and to top it off they are maintanance NEEDY ...they might be alright for leaves but branches will push and pull you till you are really screwed up like I was ...and mowers do a better job on leaves anyway ...David

These would do well:

Acer pseudosieboldianum
Acer griseum
Acer conspicuum `Phoenix'
Acer nikoense
Acer palm diss `Seiryu'
Acer palm `Omurayama'

Dax

Well, the Asahi Zuru seems to be settling in to its spot on the front lawn, I'm watching the water, since it's so hot. In the fall, we have TONS of leaves, thanks to all the mature maples & oaks on our lot & surrounding areas. Last year, I raked & lawn-mower shredded, put lots in the compost pile (they finally seem to have disintegrated!)-my DH just hasn't gotten into recycling & composting, he wants to rake it,bag it, & get rid of it, despite my pleas to the contrary.

Now, I'm worried about my Acontifolium, which is still in the pot, on the S/E side of the house & seems to be suffering some heat stress-crispy leaves! I should plant it, right? & keep it watered? My other worry is the magnolia in fron of the house, it has alternate branches which are totally bare, probably from the heat & water stress, right? Should I trim these off, water heavily, fertilize-any suggestions?

I live in Thomasville, GA and todays temp. was 99. Will a JM grow in the sun with that heat. Where I would plant it is sun all day long? Watering is not a problem. The ground is clay but can be amended.

It depends on the cultivar. Right now I have Germaine's Gyration, Sango Kaku, Sherwood Flame, Suminagashi, Tsukushi gata in full sun in addition to some seedlings. Oh, and Crimson Queen. Even most of my Japanese Maples in full shade will get leaf burn by the end of the summer. Not so pretty but they are old trees.

But of course, there are trees that shouldn't be in full sun.

I'm reading your comments with great interest...

I too would like to plant a JM in full sun, but only for the short term. My dilemma is that we have a front yard that is all dirt, so there is NO shade at all. It would get all day/East to West exposure and it gets searingly HOT out there.

However, I'd like to put a Chinese Pistachio out there, and then underplant it with the JM, but I have two concerns. Since our CP will be planted this fall (prob. Oct.), how long will it take to provide enough shade for the JM's. I've heard that the Pistachio will grow fairly slowly. Can I plant the CP and the JM's in the fall together? Also, was reading that it's better to plant a tree when it's smaller, so am hoping to get a recommendation for the largest size Pistachio that would be safe to plant to give the JM's the necessary shade if we can plant them all in October. Or should I plant the CP this year, and then wait to put the JM's in a few years from now. (Say it isn't so... Patience is not my forte).

How far from the CP do we need to space the JM's? Any suggestions much appreciated. Also, I dearly love the Sango Kaku, but noticed that this wasn't on the suggested list. Any thoughts on how this would fare against the fall colors/texture of the CP? Should we pair a larger leaved JM against the leaf texture of the CP instead?

I'm a brand new gardener, fearful to commit, esp. knowing that trees are a forever kinda purchase... Sheila

Firstly i'd go to the plant files or search forums on the CP and growth rate...but it will probably be a 'just depends" answer on soil heat winter etc conditions maybe d-mail someone who has one....BUT unless you are putting in a large CP I would assume it will take years to give descent shade ...even weed like fast growing trees do NOT give immediate shade. Since I am not familiar with the tree I would not know how great underplanting it with jm's would be ...but in general I fell planting too close to a large shade tree is not a really good idea and would keep it away a but so it gets some morn. sun at least.
As far as types many JM'S will take full sun anyway but you may have to live with a bit of leaf burn.... but the sango WOULD NOT be my 1st choice...mine has NOT faired well in full sun nor has many others that have posted you might try one of the newer red branched varieties .....my japanese sunrise has done well and I assume many other of the coral bark types will too. David OH I would suggest starting a new thread since this one is a little long, OLD, and off of topic to some degree....

This message was edited Aug 29, 2006 11:37 AM

Chinese Pistache trees grow fairly quickly and the shade can be very dense. It's one of my favorite trees but it does smell toward the end of September. Perhaps you might want to wait until the berries are ripe and smell them before you plant one in a traffic area. And they are very messy. I think that the canopy is too low for underplanting. Is the fall coloring why you are choosing the Chinese Pistache? There are more open trees that would do better with underplanting. I've never seen one underplanted in fact. Perhaps you are thinking Chinese Elm? That is a very fast growing tree and people do tend to underplant those. Although it will cost you a lot in pruning.

If I were to put in something about the same size as a Chinese Pistache, I would choose a JM first thing. Something like the upright Sango Kaku or Suminagashi or Sherwood Flame. I have two Sango Kakus. One in full shade and one in full sun. Both do well as long as they are in the ground.

If you need a tree that can grow in both sun and part shade perhaps a Villa Taranto?Another possibility would be something like a crimson queen or another red low lace leaf. The CQ can take the sun and, while it won't look so red in the shade, they can grow there too. I have one in basically full shade.


Thistle, I'd get a tree guy out about your magnolia. It's sounds as if it's in more trouble than just water problems. Do you water it at all in the summertime when there's drought? I use a root feeder on mine when there hasn't been much water.

Sheila, why don't you start a new thread about a pistache, ask in the Claifornia forum or dmail me until you figure out whether or not you really want a Chinese Pistache.

For those of you who want to know why someone would like a messy, sometimes smelly tree, here's a photo.

Hi Doss!

Thank you so much for the info. I'll take your advice re: the Chinese Pistachio and a new thread. I appreciate your suggestions. Look for my dmail later.

Found this site that had some beautiful pictures of the JM's when I was trying to look up some images of the named varieties that are mentioned on the thread above. Hope this is okay to mention here. www.acer-palmatum.de. "Sorten" and "Album" have some great pictures!

There's this website too which says which trees can be put in full sun.
http://www.carlmontnursery.com/

Thistle5
I know Alexandria is further north than I am, but we have similar clay soil. Be sure when you plant, that it is raised. JM's don't like wet feet, and sitting it down in that clay soil is like sitting it in a bowl. I would definately wait to put anything in the ground until at least October. I can keep my plants watered much more easily in a pot (in the shade) than I can in the ground in our summer heat. I try never to plant in July or August if I can help it. This one has been sitting here, kept upright by the cinderblocks and just the rootball since early July. I've got a little watering dripper at the base of it, and it gets water each day for just about 5 minutes. I'll plant it in the ground sometime in October.
Good Luck!
Happytail

Thanks for the link, Doss. It looks like the reddish JM's are the most sun tolerant. I wonder why...

Sheila

I don't think that is true i think you are misinterpeting the planting options ...most reds NEED sun or at least some sun to have ANY color whereas most greens can take more shade since well.... they are green anyway...but many will take sun at least as well and often better than reds in my limited experience...so on the whole I would say the opposite is true...but as always there are alot of iffs such as leaf structure and thickness and location and most if not all will burn to some degree in really hot full day sun in many areas at least tip burn when young. It seems humidity or lack thereof and how far south you are ( suns angle to earth) also play a BIG parts. David

Happytail, how old is the JM you have pictured? And what kind is it? Thanks.

Diann

An update-the Asahi Zuru still looks quite healthy, & I'm going to add an Iijima Sunago behind it, a bit further up the yard (S/E exposure). This tree is a recent purchase from Della, & it's a beauty-graceful, purple-bronze...I've been on a JM binge lately (fall IS the best time to plant), I now have 10, w/ 3 more on the way-a small collection, but it gives me great pleasure...