Frustrated for Lavender!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am SO frustrated! Every form of lavender (Lavandula) I plant dies! I've tried Munstead, Provence & another which presently slips my mind. My first trial was with 4 plants, 2 in one bed (too much water - I didn't know), 2 in another, almost no water. All in full afternoon sun, one was somewhat shaded by large nearby elephant ears. No matter, all died at the same rate!

I then read they like sandy, well-drained alkaline soil, so I planted new ones this spring in pots (to better control moisture). I purchased 6" pots to start with healthy semi-mature plants. I mixed the soil with sand, pebbles & lime. I thought I had given it all it needed. But all my beautiful lavender slowly started to turn black from the bottom up and die!!!!!!!!!!

Has anyone had success with this? I am in the very humid south, can the humidity have adverse effects on it? I will ask Texan gardeners on the other forum, meanwhile, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has experience with lavender.

What am I doing wrong?

Lavender can be challenging--I don't know if they do well in Texas or not, hopefully someone else will know that, I would think humidity is probably not really good for them but I don't know if it makes it so you can't grow them, or if you just have to be more watchful for fungus, etc. I think the ones that you put in the bed with hardly any water probably died exactly because of that--lavender once it's established doesn't want much water but before it's established it needs more (but not as much as the first time you tried). It's a pretty fine line between watering them enough that they don't die and watering them too much and killing them that way, but I've always had much better luck with them when they're in the ground rather than when they're in pots. I think when they're in pots that fine line between under and over-watering becomes even trickier to get right. I wouldn't recommend planting in the ground in the heat of summer though, I would wait until fall when it cools down. Another thought though...how much lime did you put in the pots? And what pH did it end up at? Too much could have potentially burned the roots, not sure if turning black from the bottom up would be a symptom or not but it's definitely possible.

Hello ladyborg. I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth Area and picked up three different varities in May at a local nursery and they are doing very well. They were in 4" pots that I planted a foot from each other in between two roses: Munstead, Fernleaf (L. Multifida) and another variety that I do not have a label for. I listed them by current size; Munstead has grown the least and the unnamed variety has grown the most. But still, Munstead has doubled in size, Fernleaf is about 8" tall and the unnamed variety is approaching 10-12 inches tall.

They get sun starting at 11am for several (?) hours; I doubt they get sun the rest of the day due to shade from the roses. They are watered using drip irrigation. My drip system waters 2-3 times a week for 30-45 minutes. Depends on the temperatures each week and on whatever amounts of rainfall that I get. But if I get an inch of rain then I stop the drip for one cycle. The soil around the roses has a lot of organic content. I asked my dogs about that and they said that, at one time or another, that soil has been fed with such things as organic compost, alfalfa (or alfalfa tea), cottonseed meal, blood meal and fish meal.

When I planted them, I made sure that they were not pot bound (one was) and dunked them in Liquid Seaweed prior to planting (I use that as a rooting hormone or anti-transplant shock chemical).

Based on your experience, they may not last long but, I hope that at least helps you know what I was doing over here,
Luis

This message was edited Jul 12, 2006 5:09 AM

Thanks ALL for the input. I happened to see a large flowering English Lavender @ Lowe's today and purchased it. We'll see how it does. I should post before and after pics.

I am going to plant it where I had one die already.........it's up high (I took the top of an aluminum chiminea off, turned it upside down and it looks like a bird bath. I filled the leg of it with rocks for drainage and the soil is mixed with sand for drainage also).

I didn't think I might have put too much lime in it, I will check the PH right now.

Wish me luck :o)

P.S.: Please see my recent post [HYPERLINK@davesgarden.com] Shih Tzus & Lhasa Apsos need YOU!

Hi Ladyborg,
Scroll this thread, someone else had a frustrating time with lavender in the humid south. As you can see from my handle, I'm in NJ. But I'm growing several varieties of lavender. I have one huge area that has been going maybe 10 or more years. It's semi-shady, and the variety was sold in a catalogue as a shade-tolerant type (and it sure is). My other types are in full-sun.
Where did you buy most of your lavender? If you bought from a northern nursery, the plants may have been shocked. You may have better luck next year buying from a nursery near you or in your zone (allowing for humidity). Just a thought.
Also, someone else on the forum said not to fertilize lavender (I never haver, I pretty much only fertilize the roses, and now that I have some orchids, I'll fertilize them too).

My soil is acidic and sandy. I have many lavenders , some are 25 years old. I don't give them anything except a sprinkling of osmocote when we do a general application to the whole garden. I only water when everything else is desperate. I cut them back in the fall as well as after they bloom (did them this week) Every 5 to 7 years I have dug them up and pruned out anything dead and divided them. They are all in full sun. I tried to grow some in pots and they promptly died. I agree with bbinnj that it is important to buy them from a local grower. I also think they need good air circulation. I don't plant things generally that hang over them. Here are a few on July 4 2006. Patti

Thanks both for the input. Patti, I'm so jealous! I WILL get lavender to grow, I WILL get lavender to grow, I WILL get lavender to grow!

Hi there - I wintersowed two varieties - Lavendar Lady & True Lavendar [Lavandula angustifolia]. Both are in full sun and doing very nicely. I have no idea if they will survive my winter, but I guess we will find out.

Hi, It must be the humidity that's doing it in. I'm a novice and this is one of the few plants that are doing really well with zero effort. I have two different kinds planted, one was spanish lavendar and the other I'm not sure of. They are in full hot baking sun from morning to night on a slope, so they never have wet feet. Since it's so dry there, I am having to water a ton and they seem to like it. When my landscaper first planted two of them one almost didn't make it since the irrigation was not really on very often, but once I turned it up it rallied. In my experience they seem to like lots of water, which seems at odds with the description for them. I only fertilize with a neutral fertilizer called grow power plus, and sporadically at best since I procrastinate a lot! I also mulch them pretty well in the spring. Good luck with the latest batch! Christina

Christina, how old are your plants? I've grown lavenders too and for the first year or two definitely they do need water to get established, but once they're established you're not supposed to need to water them. So if yours are still only a year or two old that might be why they do better with water, but if they're older than that then I wonder if it has something to do with your soil?

Ladyborg,
I'm in VA...hot, hazy and HUMID!!! Believe me...it's thick here during the summers....mercy!! My Munstead is huge now...it's 4 years old and my Province is doing almost as well...3 years old. I've planted 5 additional types this spring...one has already died...the others are doing ok. They don't like to be over-watered yet when they're smaller you've got to help them out some. Mine are in a yard that faces south-east so....they obviously enjoy the sun. This is the first year I've added lime to the soil..previous years I just put down the Miracle Grow pellets. It's my favorite scent...I hope you find one that will do well for you!!

Ecrane, you're correct they're about a year and a half old. Most of the plants on my hill are supposed to be drought tollerant, so I'm hoping that eventually I won't have to water too much. I did things like mexican sage, rosemary, lantana, rock rose...and others too. :) It's really an experiment, as I have no clue. Crossing fingers that everything keeps going. It's also the area that I throw plants that I can't bear to trash, for example the poinsettia from Christmas that is a stick but still alive! lol

I think as your plants get older you'll have to water less and less--I did the same thing in an area of my old garden where the sprinkler system didn't reach--planted lots of drought tolerant stuff there and was a slave to the hose for the first year or two while everything got established but was expecting this year I wouldn't need to water nearly as much (but of course I sold the house, so I guess I'd have to call up the lady who bought it from me and ask her if she's having to water it a lot!)

now that is funny! I'm sure she'll appreciate the drought friendly crop! :)

Well, my new 1 gallon pot lavender's almost dead already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oy! I won't rest until I am successful at it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well don't feel bad I jinxed myself by saying mine were growing! Now one of them isn't looking so great. Our weather spiked to 115 over the weekend, so I think it got cooked. I'm going to say nice things to him now and try to build up his confidence...

I keep wondering if it isn't the humidity around here, because they say the stuff grow BEAUTIFULLY around Austin. It's been pretty hot here too, 100 degrees in the shade. Anyone have any thoughts on the HUMIDITY factor?

I'm in VA - and the weather reports are the same through-out the summer: "Hazy, Hot, and Humid" It's never NOT humid here....ugh!! Mine seems to do ok despite that though.

Spanish Lavender (Lavandula stoechas) may be you best bet.

Hello, Ladyborg!
I sympathise entirely... You know, I've this beautiful lavender bush for three months, and it was doing wonderful, and suddenly.. it died. Overnight, just like that. Went to sleep and woke up dead.. LOL (I thought I'd better make a joke of it, I hate to see a plant die!)

She died on one of the worst nights we've had recently - for the hot side, I mean. We've been having a horrid heat wave in Portugal, and that night it didn't go below 28ºC... I think she literally dried off.

I never had lavender before, and so I watered it regularly, not too much, just enough to prevent the soil from drying out. I kept it in a container, along with some rosmarinum. Our weather is fairly humid (around 60%) most year round. She seemed to like it. However, with the heat wave the air became very, very dry. I can't see any other reason but for the heat and the drought, nothing else changed.

Good luck!!!

Love

MyHiraeth

One thing that can happen to potted plants especially if you keep them in the sun is that their roots can get way too hot--this is especially a problem in darker colored pots. Lavenders are generally happy on the drier side and with low humidity, but if you had the pot out baking in the sun all day during your heat wave its roots may have gotten fried.

Yes, ecrane, I'm sure you are right... Although I tried to keep the pots moist - they are not that dark, they are terracotta, but still it got too hot....

She did look like a crisp. Poor thing..

What part of Dublin do you live at? My inlaws have just moved to Swords. I love Dublin and miss it very much.... I thought we'd to Dublin ourselves, but then my husband got promoted and it made us thing again.
How's the summer been?

I think you might be referring to the real Dublin in Ireland? I live in the fake one in California--a nice little piece of suburban sprawl near Oakland/San Francisco (OK, I really do like it here, but I'm sure the real one in Ireland is much nicer!)

Hi,

I am new at this... just started gardening this past April... I had 2 lavander plants in my garden,,, the basil grew so much, it shaded the poor things... I moved then to full sun and they died... so I got 2 more (mine were from Home Depot... then I just planted them in a pot because I can carry them with me ... I know I am pretty pathetic, but here is a picture...they are doing well, and every day I touch then and smell and sit next to them... my plan is to bring then in for the winter... I don't know!!!

sorry the picture may be sideways... if you look in my blog it may be the right way,,, I water every time the pot is dry...

oops the blog is http://ninoandlilly.blogspot.com/
and it's the first picture

I think it looks great!!

Don't give up just yet on growing lavender in Texas. There are commercial lavender growing operations just a stone's throw from Austin and they seem to be very successful in a climate not too different from yours. Here are their web addresses. [HYPERLINK@www.roughcreeklavender.com] and [HYPERLINK@wimberleylavender.com]. I'm pretty sure that they would be more than happy to help you out in your efforts. Paul

This message was edited Aug 17, 2006 11:27 AM

This was a duplicate post that I thought had gotten lost in the ether after 10 minutes or so of not seeing it here. Should have just clicked the "Refresh" button and I wouldn't have looked so stupid. My hyperlinks don't seem to be working either. Don't know what I did wrong but the web address are good. Maybe someone can tell me how to "activate" hyperlinks. Paul

This message was edited Aug 17, 2006 10:56 AM

This message was edited Aug 17, 2006 11:30 AM

I live in West Texas. I planted several varieties of lavenders last fall and the Grosso and Provence have survived and grown to about 24 inches around or more. No blooms on the Grosso this year but the provence and bloomed twice. I lost several plants that were partially shaded by my neighbors pine trees in the afternoon. The ones that have done the best get the most direct sun in the mid to late afternoon. They also get about 50% less water than the rest of the plants because they are at the edge of the watering area. I did raise the area where I planted them by about 4 inches by billing with soil and sand to make sure there is good drainage. Absolutely none have survived in areas where they are shaded for any prolonged time of the day.

Good Luck.

Tammie

Cactusman, how did you enter your hyperlinks? The two ways to do it are either copy the address from the address bar in your browser and paste into your message, or if you type it in as "http://www.whatever.com" (without the quotes) then it should create the link. If you did it one of those two ways and it didn't work then it was probably just a random bug or something.

Lhasalover, I have a feeling I know what kind of dogs you have :o). Check out www.shihtzu-rescue.com, It's Lone Star Shih Tzu & Lhasa Apso Rescue, I am a volunteer and a foster mom to Lucky (http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=5993826)(below). ;o)

If you a Lhasa, share a pic please.

Ladyborg,

I grow about 60 bushes of 7 types of lavender in my Zone 9b Calif garden, but I have a fast draining slope and a Mediterranean climate so I have never had much of a problem. I can really appreciate your desire to grow these fragrant plants however.

Soil pH:
This may be a long shot, but since you have tried many things I am just wondering if something went wrong when you added lime before planting. Have you had your soil tested for pH(level of acidity or alkalinity) Or have you contacted your local County Agricultural extension office or a garden center with knowleable staff to confirm the need for lime? They may be able to tell you typical soil pH in your area and recommended ways to correct it. I can understand the need to add lime to sweeten (raise the pH to 7 or above) of the soil, but I am wondering what type of lime you used?

I am not a chemist and most of my info came from the following link:
http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~blpprt/acid5.html


- Ag lime is ground limestone (CaC03)[remember chemistry class?] and is the safest to use. I have also seen bagged soil mixes with ground up oyster shells which I think is also CaCO3.

-Quick lime is CaO. It will sweeten the soil, BUT it is highly caustic--causes an intense heating reaction when it contacts water--not what you want to happen around the roots of your new transplants. Sometimes spread over animal carcasses. Also dangerous to breathe or get on your skin when you spread it. I think some commercial farms use it but they must let it get well watered in before planting anything. I had a friend who mistakenly spread this around her roses and they died rapidly.

-Builders or Hydrated lime (Ca(OH)2) which is used for making cement/mortar and also for making pickles! . It also has a heat producing reaction with water and is also used to dry out manure piles or treat animal carcasses or make pickles(!). so it has to be used according to directions.


It looks they all work to sweeten the soil, but with different effectiveness and different safety requirements.

Bagged soil mixes:
It may also be possible to just dig a good size hole and fill it with a good bagged, fast draining soil mix that already contains limestone or ground sea shells(organic mixes list their ingredients on the bag) before transplanting your lavender. If your rain is acid or the surrounding soil is very acid eventually it will acidify the new soil, but I think your plant should have a good chance to get established before that happens.

Other lavender varieties:
I also read that Lavendula stoechas sometimes called Spanish Lavender, is more tolerant of acidic soils than most. However, it does not produce the same type of bloom as the English or Lavadin types--the long pointed blue spikes that are used for perfume, sachets etc. The bloom is more boxy and it typically has a couple of waving petals on the top that look a little like butterfly wings or rabbit ears. Some of the named cultivars are "Otto Quast", "Willow Vale", and "Wings of Night".

According to Sunset's Western Gardening book, the Lavendula x allardii family is more tolerant of heat and humidity than the typical English (angustifolia e.g. "Munstead", "Hidcote") or Lavadin (intermedia e.g. "Grosso", "Provence")types. The book claims that L x allardii is probably the one sold as Lavandula x heterophylla by many vendors. It's bloom looks more like the intermedia types than the stoechas types.

There may also be some that have been bred for more fungus resistance. I don't really know .

You may have to order these less common varieties from mail order sources.

Anyway, I hope some of this will prove helpful.

Good gardening,

Hi, ecrane..! missed by a cuple of zones, I guess !! :-)
My mistake, Dublin rings a bell in my mind so fast I didn't even read the "CA" after it!

ecrane3, good point on the heat. I wonder if it's the heat out in Lakeside (San Diego) that's causing my poor little lavenders to die. Bought a Spanish lavender this spring and put it in a planter box that I built (it's probably far too shallow but IT and the prostrate rosemary seem to like it). So that wone's fine. However, I bought several Munsted lavenders over the past few weeks from Lowes and they all keep dying (thank goodness for Lowe's return policy). They're in terra cotta pots, and what's puzzling to me is that the soil is still moist, but they're completely dry. Is it the hot weather drying them out faster than they can even think about drinking the water, or is the pot getting too hot in the full sun (they're on a south-facing balcony with sun practically the entire day)? I've smelled the roots of the dead ones and they just smell like soil, so I don't think it's root rot. I'm just stumped. EVERYTHING else is fine (thyme, basils, mints, jasmine, angelonias, tomato plants, rose, rosemarys. Even, the lemon verbena and stevia are surviving, if not necessarily thriving). The latest lavenders are in (either 6" or 8") terra cotta pots with organic potting soil mixed with perlite and a layer of rocks at the bottom and the middle around the lavender. The white rocks are also on top acting as mulch and to bounce sunlight up into the leaves (read they like that). Any ideas?

As for Ladyborg and too humid, I've seen lavenders and HUGE rosemarys growing on campus at Texas A&M University (College Station, 90 miles north of Houston). The humidity there is prettty much the same as Houston's, where I grew up, and I have yet to experience anything as humid as Houston (man, I really miss the humidity....). Anyways, I don't think the humidity is doing it. Referencing an earlier post, Austin's not as humid as the coastal area... but just a thought.

If your other plants are in the same location and same type of pots as your lavender then I doubt if the heat's the problem because then they'd be suffering too. But I have a couple ideas...
1) are the plants fairly new? And did you throw them into full sun right away or give them some time to adjust more gradually? I don't know how sunny/shady the conditions were at the store before you bought them, but if your spot gets a lot more sun than they were used to, that could be what caused the problem, but if you expose them gradually to more and more sun they'll adjust better.
2) Do you have the white rocks in the other plants too? I think if you've got a plant that's already in that much sun in a hot climate, it probably doesn't need any more sunlight reflecting back up on their leaves, so I wonder if that's maybe contributing to the problem?
3) I also wouldn't recommend the rocks in the bottom of the pot--there's a good thread over on the container gardening forum which explains why this is a bad idea. Basically, in any pot no matter how good-draining your soil is, there's going to be a layer of soil at the bottom that stays wetter. If you put rocks, clay shards, etc in the bottom of the pot, you move that wet layer up higher in the pot where it's more likely to cause your roots to rot (and they could be rotting a bit even if you don't smell anything--it often won't smell until the rot is pretty bad)
4) I don't understand what you mean when you say there's a layer of rocks in the middle around the lavender. Does this mean that the plant's planted in rocks, then there's soil underneath that? If I'm picturing this right, it could cause a couple problems. First, if there's some soil around the roots and then there's a layer of rocks, it could be the same thing I explained in #3 except now the wet layer is even higher in the pot, right where the roots are. Or if there's not much soil around the roots and they're directly in the rocks, they may not be in contact with enough soil to get moisture and nutrients. Or rocks will heat faster than soil, so too much rocks around the roots could be helping to cook them.

All of these things that I mention though would cause problems for most plants, not just lavender, so if you planted them all in exactly the same conditions then I'm surprised that the lavender's having trouble and not the others.

well, I was trying to make sure that it was "well draining"... of course, I probably ended up turning the container into a sieve.... but all the other lavenders that died were planted the exact same way as the other plants, so thought I'd give it a try. I've thrown all of them out into the full sun, but now that I think about it, the lavender was inside the covered area, while all the others were outside. Hrm... not that I really have a shady spot, but I'll try moving the two that I have this week (sad, no?) into the corner that only gets a few hours.

As for the rocks in the middle, I put a thin layer at the bottom, some soil and perlite, then the plant, some more mix, a few rocks (to make sure it was well draining again) around the plant, then the rest with mix, and more rocks on top (like mulch). Like I said, this was new, as the others were planted the same way as the other herbs.

I'll go move the pots and hopefully that will help. Thanks so very much!

I would repot and get rid of the rocks, at least the ones that are inside the container, they are not helping your drainage like you would think they are but are actually hurting, and even if they're not what caused the original problem, they could create a problem for you down the road. The ones on the top as mulch may not be hurting things, but if you're going to be putting it in full sun they're not necessary. Using rocks as mulch to reflect the light back up to the plants is a trick you can use if you're not in a hot/sunny enough climate for the plant to really thrive, but I think your climate is perfect for lavender so they don't need the help. As far as moving the plants, putting lavender permanently in a spot that only gets a couple hours sun is not going to be good for it either, if you think they need more time to adjust to the sun I would put them there for a bit to let them recover, then gradually expose them to more and more sunlight until they're in the same conditions as your other plants and then leave them there. I would also check how deeply your lavender is planted--when you described how you put it in the container, it sounds like there's at least a chance that it's in the pot too deep--I wouldn't plant it any deeper than it was in the container you bought it in, otherwise you're risking rotting the crown. Hope that helps! Lavenders are so wonderful, I hope you are able to find a way to be successful with them!

okay... pruned out what looked dead and was surprised to find that the inside of the stem still had some green. Inspired me to check the plant I thought for sure was a goner (all crispy) and sure enough, it was green inside too, so added it to my project. Most of the flowers are off both plants now and I moved them inbetween the two tomato plants (the pots the tomatoes are in will offer some shade until the plants recover (I hope) and then they'll grow into the sun themselves (my thought, anyways. Was worried about moving them into the shade and them getting not enough sun). On the one plant that was half green I pulled back the rocks and realized that the crown was soggy. Pulled back any loose soil and made a very tiny moat to make sure that nothing could be higher than the original potting. From what you said, I was probably messing up the crown as well... there were some yucky leaves in there that I removed as best I could. Hopefully they'll recover.... I feel terrible every time I kill a poor plant. People mass watering at a hardware store can keep a plant alive and I kill it within two weeks (sigh).

As for the pot itself, I never know how big they should be. I'm guessing the pot's 6"/6". Is this the wrong size pot for a 4"pot plant?

If there was moisture around the crown that could have been most of the problem right there. I would leave it in the shadier area for a few days to a week and see how it's doing, once it looks like it's perking up a bit I would try giving it a little more sun each day until you work it up to being in the sun with the rest of your herbs. As far as pot size, 6" should be fine, it's best not to go more than one pot size at a time bigger than what it was in before but moving from a 4" pot to a 6" pot should be fine. Keep us updated on how they do!

Ladyborg, I live in the south, and it is hot and very humid. I had no luck with growing lavender in the soil. Spring after spring, no matter what I did, they would die. I bought healthy plants in 6" pots from several different nurseries.Finally, I decided to try deep planters. I placed a layer of small aquarium rocks in the bottom of each planter for drainage. I then added a few pieces of broken clay pots for even more drainage. I brought a custom, lightweight potting soil [ I guess it's ok to mention the name] Hyponex and a few bags of Hoffman's. I placed about 15 tbs of crushed egg shells in the bottom of each planter. I added the soil, and a healthy lavender plant. I chose Munstead. I placed the planters high up on my picnic table, spacing them a foot apart. So far, so good. It is now the middle of Sept, and the lavender has doubled in size. I will overwinter them in my greenhouse. I think the secret to growing lavender is a soil that drains well, and full sunshine. I also do not move them, and take no cuttings. They look and smell wonderful. I hope this advice helps.