Hey everybody
Please don't take this the wrong way...there is a real curiosity for me about bonsai. But I also find it a bit disturbing and now I think I understand why. It reminds me of the ancient "art" of foot binding. Someone please help me overcome this negative association...tell me the plants don't suffer....
I know that all gardeners prune and train their plants but I wonder if anyone agrees with me that there is something perverse, above and beyond, in bonsai?
Can I change my mind about this, or do you have to have a certain mindset to push a living thing to its very limits?
I bought a pre-bonsai fig tree from a garden centre and planted it in the ground...I am keeping a close eye on it to see if it has suffered any long-term psychological damage LOL
Pax
Lizzy
In 2 minds
Do you have any comments about this bonsai - one of Bonsai Star Gallery ([HYPERLINK@www.bonsaistar.com]) collections?
Species : Ficus Benjamina (California)
Style : Natural
Height : 28 cm
Well - it looks a little sad and sorry for itself IMHO. Why are you asking me?????? I know next to nothing about bonsai....as you can see from the other post of mine that you responded to....I'm a bit perplexed.
Ok, that's fine. Just courious whether the beauty of bonsai could give you some positive image.
Its just that I have a bit of a problem with such drastic measures as cutting roots and cramping growth, which for me is just a few steps too far with taming nature!!!!
This is just my personal opinion and not intended to ruffle any feathers.
As always in life beauty is in the eye of the beholder, no offence.
I think of bonsai as a way of recreating some plants' responses to conditions in nature, like a fir tree growing on a storm battered cliff on the ocean. I've seen bonsai almost 400 years old. I think it is a way for the plant or tree to live in slow motion, like I wish I could live for hundreds of years, the opposite of live fast/die young, not pushing a living thing to its very limits.
I see limadijaya has spoken...maybe post pictures on a new thread?
This message was edited Aug 1, 2006 12:38 PM
My personal opinion is that whenever someone posts an opinion w/o a clear understanding of the subject matter, they provide fertile ground for misunderstanding. It's kinda like saying, "I'm going to stand here & throw stones at how you raise your children, but don't want to ruffle feathers; oh, and btw: never mind that I've never raised children.
Are you ok with houseplants that are grown for years in the same soil and die a slow death from compaction, terrible root restriction, or even die of thirst as salt build-up in the soil sucks the moisture from plant tissues, killing them slowly over long periods? How about the little cubes & balls in your front yard (shrubs) that have endured thousands of small wounds when they are pruned, causing them to grow unnaturally dense & providing hiding places for all manner of insects that suck the life from plants slowly, or fungal infections that ravage plants because of lack of air flow?
Experienced bonsai practictioners care for their plants with more attention than the average person affords their pets. I speak from the perspective of years of experience and challenge you to support your opinion with anything other than emotional misconception. I promise to stay within the bounds of applicable plant physiology if you wish to engage in a real discussion.
Al
Hi Al
Surely we should be allowed to speak out if we have misgivings about something. As you kindly point out, my feelings about this are genuinely born of a lack of experience. You are right to go into such depth as you do, although I feel that in your need to defend your hobby from attack of you rather missed my point....which was that I prefer nature to see as she intended with a minimum of interference from us. That is NOT to say I disapprove of all gardening efforts to make living along side easier for us (it is sometimes a battle between us and nature) your reference to pruning etc.
Bonsai is an extreme form of nature preservation which requires its practitioners to lavish hours of attention on their plants. This is true...because without the gardener the trees would die for sure but this is not in the name of nature. It is purely human vanity. I might add that there is an extreme form of pet care which includes all manner of grooming and dressing (in clothes) and clipping and other pampering which I do not approve of either. And on that matter I know I am not alone!!! But some human beings have a propensity for this kind of thing.
Please remember that it is very good to hear other peoples point of view...I have benefitted from yours and hope that you will see where I am coming from.
I think I will put this to bed now as I don't want the temperature to rise any further. Lets just agree that we see nature differently and leave it at that. I have learned a lot already. Thank you very much.
Lizzy
Lizzy, Bonsai mimicks nature in its essence. You just have to look to nature to find examples. I've biked trails here in Texas where Cedar trees sprout out of a rocky crag in boulders where there is probably about 4 inches of soil. The trees are probably 10 years old and only 3 or 4 feet high. They are obviously stunted by the conditions found in nature and weathered by the elements. I dont see what is wrong with simulating these conditions at home.
I dont think there is evidence that trees suffer from root or limb pruning. Its usually the opposite. They seem to flourish.
Maybe you should explain what particular part of Bonsai bothers you so much and we could discuss the benefits if there are any.
It really dosn't bother me as much as the above correspondence seems to portray. Re-reading my original post it I can see how my intentions could be misconstrued. After Al's post I thought I owed him an explanation for my comments. I thought I did explain my views.
This is not a competition for who is right and who is wrong - merely an exchange of ideas and I'm satisfied that I have said all I want to say.
Lizzy, I find it hard to equate your original examples, yet I understand a little of what you are saying. Here is my take on it.
The foot binding is a control and power issue. Only families which did not need the labor of wives and daughters could afford foot binding. It demonstrated wealth and the power of that wealth.
Bonsai has little to do with power. Rather it is an expression of the contemplation and appreciation of nature. Plants have little choice where they grow. If the seed falls in a location that provides the necessary conditions for germination, it will germinate. Look at the small trees that you can find growing in rain gutters on house roofs, at the dandelion growing in a crack between the cement side walk and the cement wall of a building. Life strives and succeeds in the strangest places. The bonsai grower utilizes this to create a potted plant that holds that ability up for our consideration.
You are correct in that gardening is not an I'm right and you are wrong subject. We all have our own styles and joys. If you like the look of bonsai, but are put off by your perception of deliberatly stunting a plant there are many succulents and caudiciforms that would give you a similar look. I grow cacti and succulents in bonsai pots because I love the combination of the geometric forms of th4e plants in the beautiful pots.
Beth
It was very good to read your take on bonsai and I understand what you mean about nature finding its way somehow or other - it is remarkable that a seed "wants" to live inspite of the odds against it- truely awe-inspiring.
My instinct as a gardener would be to rescue the poor stunted tree and give it room to grow and spread to its full potential not to pot it up and display it for aesthetic purpose.
I don't think bonsai growers are wrong! I just realise that I see things differently. I am very glad that I got so many replies explaining your views. This has turned out to be quite a philosophical thread. Thanks for the lessons.
Here is a happy plant, my green eyed friend....
Oh Dale, there you go again....but this time they are steely grey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;))))))))))Lizzy
Hey Dale - Christmas is coming up sooner than you think. How about giving me that gem as a nice present? That is one fantastic bonsai.
Dale, that is one fantastic plant. The girth of the trunk is wonderful. What kind of watering set up do you use? That is my downfall keeping plants properly watered.
Beth