Black Rat Snake Ate My Baby Bluebirds!!! Sob!

I am so disgusted right now! TWO YEARS IN A ROW black rat snakes have eaten either the eggs in my blue bird box or the baby blue birds! I didn't realize what was doing it till just a couple of days ago, when TWO black rat snakes in a row got caught in the straw mat I put down so as to grow grass over some bare spots on my lawn. They slithered into the netting, got their scales caught and got cooked very quickly in the hot sun. Here are some photos of one of the snakes. I should have taken photos while they were still caught in the netting. I don't feel great that the snakes got caught in the net and were cooked. Not a nice way to die. I am keeping an eye on the netting now to see that more snakes don't get caught, or birds, which can also get caught. May have to tack the net down more.

But it does anger and disgust me that 10 baby blue birds or their eggs were destroyed over the last two years by these snakes! I am figuring it was snakes because this year I had a raccoon protector on the nest box, and because there was NOTHING in the nest box at all except the nest after the blue birds disappeared---no shells, no blood, nothing.

But now I know a way to protect the blue birds next year from the snakes---Wrap some netting around the pole on which the blue bird box is located.

I am SOOOO disgusted right now! I LOVE blue birds, and want to do all I can to increase their numbers!

More photos. I am nearly positive it is a black rat snake. And I know black rat snakes eat bird eggs and baby birds. Not only that, but they will remember where nest boxes are and come back. I am going to see if there is a more humane way to keep the snakes away from my nest box without killing them. Probably is. Will go to a blue bird site and find it.

Nother photo

Nother'n

Last 'un

gooberpie,
I'm so sorry about the bluebirds. The Gardening for Wildlife forum on DG has many threads on protecting bluebird nests. I don't have bluebirds just Robin(something happened to these eggs also) Catbirds (4 babies ) and Cardinal nests.

When I lived in FL, I was told that the snakes wont crawl on pine needles...it pricks their skin. Don't know if you have anything that type in your area you can put down around the ground to prevent them from going into the area. Have also heard about mothballs...not sure with a snake that big.

Good luck, I would be mad as a wet hornet too...sometimes natures stinks.

Debbie

So Sorry G. , I just lost my baby Wrens the same way! Nature is so harsh some times, its a good thing that we dont see what happens most of the time!
But Nature always makes up for the losses, We just have to let her work!

Eufaula and everyone, thank you for your empathy. Eufaula, I agree that nature makes up for losses, but the problem is that both starlings and house sparrows are man's interference with nature. So I am even sorrier for every songbird I fail to raise to maturity.

Starlings and sparrows beat up badly on bluebirds---keep them from nesting or destroy their eggs, as you likely know. I had the starlings, the sparrows and the coons and possums beat, and then along come the snakes!

Well, phooey! I might even get another pair to nest this season, and if so, I will do what needs to be done to keep the snakes from getting the eggs or young! You betcha!

'Howdy' gooberpie ..

A big ol 'hearty' welcome to DG, to ya !!

Sure hate to read about the demise of any of the bird eggs, babies, etc. .. Seems sometimes that there's not enuff of a frog and toad population to serve the snakes, or else the wiley varmints just desire more 'variety' to their meals. Almost makes me want to place 'snake' on my own meal menu, for sure! ... I do know, that Rattlesnake meat is quite tasty!! .. Hmmmm ..

The netting, wrapped around the pole mite work for the snakes, but .. jes may could serve only to better enable some other vermin to get them easier tho'. Unless, of course .. you've got some ideas going that my wee lil brain just can't picture & process! (And, anything's possible, there!)

May I inquire .. as to what you have the BB nest boxes placed upon? What type of pole or post?

- Magpye

Just stopping in.
Do you think if you wrapped the lower portion of the pole/post with tin and kept it oiled, that they would be able to slither up?

Howdy, Mags! Howdy, Sheila! Yeah---I have to do something. Right now, the nest box is on a 4"X4" 5' high post in the ground. If I get another pair to nest, I will certainly take absolutely certain steps to keep the snakes out. I am glad to have found out, almost for certain, that it's not the coons that have been stealing the eggs, because I am quite fond of coons. Possums? I can take 'em or leave 'em. But I am 99% certain it was a snake.

Now I'm back to daily cleaning out the junk sparrows are stuffing in the box...

I read that a way to keep sparrows away is to attach long, thin strips of old silver mylar balloon to the top of the box so that they blow and wave in the breeze. It scares sparrows away, but the bluebirds don't mind 'em. (Not sure if that's because sparrows are smarter than bluebirds or visa versa. But ecologically and selectively, it works in the sparrows' favor, doesn't it...)

Will keep y'all posted as to whether I get another pair this season. I've read that where the weather stays warm into August, bluebirds can raise as many as 3 broods.

I am confident that if they make another nest and lay another clutch that I'll be able to properly protect them this time. I just wasn't fully aware of the snake problem up till now.

Would this keep snakes from climbing up the post?

http://www.bestnest.com/bestnest/RTProduct.asp?SKU=WDL-BAF3GR

Pati

Coupla things, Magpye---I have oodles of frogs and toads around because I have both a pond and a swimming pool in my yard. But you know---if I have a choice between frog and chicken, I'll take the chicken every time! ;+)

Now, question for you: I know how to make a gooberpie, but how do you make a magpye? ;+)

With regard to the netting possibly making it easier for other varminks to git the aigs, the thing is to git it low enough toward the ground OR high enough near the box so's it's doesn't give the other egg eaters any advantage.

Finally, with regard to eating rattlesnake, be a mite careful what you eat, as I heard that some folks in the southwest who ate armadillo when they had a population explosion of them, reportedly got leprosy from doing so.

Thanks, Pati.

Baffles can work, but they need to have a w i d e enough diameter that the snakes can't just crawl over or around them. I have read that your average squirrel or coon baffle will not deter your average snake. But apparently there are wide enough baffles sold that they will keep snakes from being able to get past them. Wild Birds Forever/ Bluebirds Forever sells baffles 19-20 inches in diameter. Not sure they would do the job or not.

Also, the same company sells a pretty nice little device that will absolutely keep little coon paws and possum paws from reaching eggs or young. But a person could undoubtedly make something just like it from PVC pipe for far less than what they charge for such a device.

.. gooberpie ..

For the most part, it was because I was in need of a user name the evening I registered with DG, and I just happened to be eating a piece of pie and 'mag' is short for my given name, so .. the rest is history. However, it seems that some folks have somehow associated the origins .. to the amount of time I seem to willingly dedicate to my posts/replies/comments to folks - but I swear to goodness, I jes simply don't understand such a wild assumption! (lol)

If your 4X4 post in the ground happens to be wooden - maybe you could be coaxed into considering replacing it with a metal post one day. The wooden posts seem to enable quite a variety of varmints some relative ease in gettin' to the boxes, and far easier pickins. The installation of a metal post would curtail a good bit of your maybe having to 'lend & tend' as much special attention to them.

I do believe that I'd be more apt to try rat snake meat over that of an army-diller. I gotta tell ya tho': the fried rattler was some superb grub! Besides, I saw first hand who was forced to kill it, witnessed the skinning and the steaks cut, and fried him up maseff! Don't think I'd've been as willin', otherwise ...

Some of the wild varmints appear to be entertaining the idea of learning to master the use of screwdrivers and pry bars .. with the way that I keep finding them laying about here and there. (everywhere, but IN the toolbox). And the ol Coot swears to goodness .. that it haint him being so lax. Sooo, leave no stone unturned (or birdbox screw, that is)! .. heehee ..

((huggs))

- Magpye

A bluebird expert advised us to use metal conduit for the bluebird nestbox poles - snakes can't climb it as they can wood poles or tree trunks.

When pressed on this subject, he was pretty blunt - putting a nestbox on a tree trunk is an open invitation for predators. So we heeded his advice, and while we have rat snakes (glad for them in our shed) and the occasional cottonmouth and copperheads, we've successfully hatched dozens of baby bluebirds in the past three years and watched them grow up and leave the nest without any problems from snakes or other predators.

Well, thanks, Mags and Terry. I can use a metal pole or conduit, I expect. Terry---what diameter conduit are you talking about. I happen to live less than a mile from a conduit factory.

I found our empty BB nest today, she had 4 babys, i am so sad too ,gooberpie. I assume it was a critter b/c i didn't see any babys on the ground , just the nest.
I will definely look into the suggestions above. If i can convince my Dh i have left over poles from our chain link fence, we took out a part of it to put in a bigger gate, Know i now what to do with the poles, if it will work? can someone tell me if this is the right kind of metal to use so snakes won't get in?
gooberpie i think i know what your talking about the little device , i didn't think of pvc pipe?
we have one bird nest of a differtnt bird don't know what it is, lets keep our fingers crossed and prayers.

sue

I figure, Sue, though I could be wrong, that if there is NOTHING left in the nest or on the ground, that it is probably a snake that ate the babies or the eggs.

I figure a piece of pvc that is the very same size as the hole in the box ought to work fine without spending 10 dollars on a "special" device. The "special" device that is sold by the company has a little ladder-like thing on the end, supposedly to help the baby birds when they come out. But no tree I know of, and no natural nesting area has any little ladder attached to it, so I figure the little ladder is superfluous, and it could even be bad, because sparrows or starlings might perch on it and harrass the bluebirds or their young.

What I have read that is important is to have a good-sized tree close by and in front of the hole in the box, so the young'uns can immediately fly to safety in the tree when they leave the nest box.

Not quite sure how you would attach a nest box to one of those heavy chain-link fence poles...? Maybe you could use Gorilla Glue and secure the box with a rope to the pole until the glue dries.

I am thinking of just putting some netting on the ground around my bluebird box and checking it regularly to free a snake if one becomes caught in it. Netting has to be high enough off the ground that the snake can't just crawl up over it.

I have been throwing stuff sparrows have been putting in the box daily. Hoping for bluebirds to nest there again. My neighbor says he gets as many as 5 broods a year in his BB box!

HAHAHAHHA gee i forgot about how to attach the box to metal DUH silly sue, golden moment.
I have seen a tube that is for BB and the sparows and starling can't get through it, it is like a little tunnel.
Our willow tree died which is right next to the nest boxes prbly why snake got em. I can look for a bush or tall grasses to cover tthe boxes . I think i will go looking for some shrubbery today.
sue

Your willow tree DIED? AMAZING! One of the things I have to tend to around here regularly is KILLING willows. Otherwise, the sprouts quickly turn into stumps, so that I can't mow over them. I thought willow trees never die---they just take over!

I am not sure there is anything a bluebird can get through that a sparrow can't. Does not make sense to me, since sparrows are smaller than bluebirds...?

The tunnel thing, to my knowledge, is to keep coon and possum fingers out of the BB box.

To keep sparrows away, I have read that strips of silver mylar from old balloons works---sparrows are afraid of it, BB's are not.

Well our willow doesn't have any leaves on it ?? just sitting there naked. There isn' much green in the branches either, there are two next to it and they seem to be ok. don't know what happend. I just assumed it died? maybe i outht to get the question in the tree thread?
sue

I think you ought to find out what happened, patent it and sell it! ;+>) There are lots of people who'd give some good money to be able to kill off their willows!

ahahahhahahhaha oour neighbors are not looking to good either, it might have got a disease we just dont' know. werid
sue

gooberpie, Sorry to hear about the BB tragedy, I've had the same thing happen recently but with catbird babys. I felt the same as you did about the money for the piece to put in th entrance hole and I did make a piece out of pvc, But, When I put it on, They didn't seem to be re-netering there nest and I was afraid the babys would get chilled so I took it off, ( It was a lot cooler at the time then what it is now) Maybe if it was at a time when it was warmer I would have given it more time t see if they would enter,So I'm still not sure if the pvc piping would work or not. That little 'ladder', I believe, Is for the parents to be able to grab onto to enter through the hole, I had drilled a small hole in the pvc piping device I made a put a bolt through it so that it was haging down like a ladder, But, Like I said, It was at a time when it was cold and rainy out and I was worried the chicks would get chilled while I was waiting for the parent s to adjust to the pvc device so I took it off, I think, If I had had warrmer weather that I wasn't worried about the babys getting chilled, It might just have worked! The BB babies did fledge and made it to the trees with the parents continuing to feed them there, But the Black Racer unfortunately did get the catbird babys!
Good Luck to you in your efforts to protect your BB's, I hope whatever solution you use works out well!!!

Thanks, Iris.

Hmmm...I wonder about that little ladder thingy. Just before the snake got the eggs, I had put a used roll of duct tape over the entrance hole. The parents appeared alarmed and confused for about 5-10 minutes, but then they settled down and the female went in with no problem.

I will have to check about that PVC pipe to see if the BB's can get in without the ladder thingy.

I got a used mylar balloon today and am going to cut it in strips and tack it to the box. I hope it will keep the sparrows away so that the BB's will build another nest.

Otherwise I will have to wait till next year...

gooberpie, Your Welcome! Hearing about your ducktape roll, I really wish I would have given the pvc a little more time, But, I wanted to make sure I was safe and not sorry so I didn't wait for long.
Let me know how the mylar balloon strips work out for you, It something I would try if it works out good for you ( I hope it does!)

I wouldn't recommend wrapping that netting around the pole. You should put up one of those squirrel cones or wrap sheet metal around it. Something slick where the snake can't gain purchase.

Or make smaller holes.

Ugh, I hate having to unravel bird netting from the black rat snakes. It wedges everywhere, the snake won't stay still and they secrete that milky substance and they STINK! Atleast they're not biters.

Shucks, CaptMicha, I have polite rat snakes. They don't stink at all. They just cook in the sun as quiet as can be.

Truly, I do not want to torture any snakes. But I know the netting works, and I am not at all sure sheet metal or a squirrel cone will work. In fact, I am SURE a squirrel cone that is too small will NOT work, and I am not sure what "too small" is.

Any ideas, please, how I can be sure of what diameter I need, or that the sheet metal will work?

Thanks!

Goob

They use the sheet metal down south here to keep squirrels out of the pecan trees. It is metal flashing like people use for roof edges under shingles. They put two bands usually with the higher one overlaping.

I didn't really know how large the squirrel cones were... I don't really have squirrels here. I actually would LIKE to see some more. They stay hidden b/c they have the woods.

Well our pecans are too small to worry about protecting, so we feed the squirrels! They are a hoot to watch. The tree is just outside our shop and they rarely move unless you talk to them. lol
Sorry off topic.

What a pity about your birds. I'm still mourning the loss of some robin chicks - the parents looked after them so well then I found a dead chick in my garden (the nest was two gardens away). I can only assume the neighbours cat got it. After that the parents just disappeared although I did see one parent bird about a week ago. It upset me so much as there are so many starlings and sparrows!

There's so much for baby birds to contend with. Nature, native predators and unnative predators. That's one of the reasons I feel so strongly about not letting cats wonder outside. Some experts say that cats place a lot of our native songbird numbers in jeopardy.

I don't know if yall have problems with brown headed cowbirds where you are, but here they cause a lot more deaths that we realize. The males arive early and scout out new nests of cardinals, and other birds. When the female arrives they mate and then an egg is dumped out of the host nest and their egg replaces it. They go on their merry way to lay other eggs, and the poor cardinal, etc. is left to raise this orphaned larger bird along with their young. Many times the cowbird chick is the stronger and gets most of the food leaving the other young weak and malnurished. The host parents can barely keep up with the demand of the thriving orphaned chick, while their own young suffer, too weak to fly.

wow that is so sad, i am so sad for the birds. I need more bird feeders
sue

I have seen that sheet metal wrapped around pecan trees to keep the squirrels away. I would think that it would work for snakes also. Make sure to spray it with some WD40.

Are the cowbirds native to the U.S.? I think coo coos do the same thing, however you spell their name.

Here is a link about the cowbirds that mention the European Cuckoos. The cowbirds have been around since the Colonies were founded, following bison herds for insects.
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/BOW/BNHCOW/