A different kind of greenhouse

I'm looking for some problems-oriented brainstorming before I get started.

I'm planning on getting a greenhouse next year. The one I'm looking at is 14" wide. I haven't decided on the length, but it will be somewhere between 14" and maybe 20".

Here's where I diverge, though. Inside, I don't want a 'traditional' greenhouse look - no benches (well...maybe one in a corner), no lines of pots. What I want to create is basically an outside 'room'. I have a pond to put in a corner and I am planning on planting directly into the ground for a few plants - maybe a few pots around the outside. The majority of the ground inside covered in a dwarf grass or moss or some other no- or little-mow greenery. I'll have a spot for a few lawn chairs and all in all, just try to make the inside look like a bit of someone's semi-tropical backyard. My goal is to have somewhere nice 'outside' to go in the winter or when it's raining - somewhere to take cabin-fevered kids when the weather won't let them get out otherwise. Ideally (though maybe not really possible), I'd like to maybe let a few finches and/or lizards roam free - help with greenhouse pests and cute, too..

So can the collective minds here help me brainstorm for problems BEFORE they occur?

I'm planning a heater, and I think I read somewhere that the pond should go on the north-facing wall. What else?

Backyard Zoo...sounds like a pretty cool setup to me! My first g-house was only 12 X 16 or so, and it was such a nice place to hang out! (I had many plants, a stereo, and a rocking chair in there! Loved it!)

Your plan sounds similar. I think you should make a good go of it. It basically sounds like you'll want to consider it an atrium. You'll love it!

As for potential problems, it'll be a great place to hang out in the Wintertime so yes, definitely a heater for those cold overcast days and cold nights. (Sunny days will most likely warm it up pretty good, sometimes too much!) Also, you'll want to be sure to be able to keep it cooled in the Summertime. That will involve a few exhaust fans and intake louvers , more'n likely, shade cloth over the top in addition to those. Regarding the exhaust fans, if you're having birds in there please remember to put up some screening so they won't get sucked through the fan blades.

As for the kids hanging out in there (as well as the adults), depending on the overall usage and such, perhaps you might consider putting in some pots (buried in the ground so the root systems are contained) of ornamental grasses. This will offer nice low-maintenance greenery without having to consider mowing. The "open" areas can be covered in indoor-outdoor carpeting, giving it a more homey look/feel and contributing to your outdoor "room" effect?

The pond is a great idea, I can just hear the water running and giving some nice white noise (augmented by the chirping of the birds!).

By each chair you could also have some tropical plants (or even a Earthbox full of tomatoes!).

Hope this is helpful ('tis just a quick off-the-top-of-my-head response). By the way, what are you planning on using as your covering? Glass? Plexi? Poly? Those will help to determine how to build and supply your insides (heater, fans, electric, etc).

Looking forward to hearing more about your project!

Shoe.

The model I'm looking at is here http://www.turnergreenhouses.com/greenhouses/biltmore.html - probably the fiberglass.

Yes, I'd thought of the screening - probably something hefty like hardware cloth (I'd really love to have a parrot in there, but I have to sure I can keep it warm enough. I'd want something they wouldn't chomp easily, though) Possibly even a decorative wooden grate of some kind, too. Of course, the REAL trick is to find something small enough that lizards won't get through! ;-)

I'm also thinking about a door on each end for a cross-breeze in the summer - have to design some sort of screen door for the pets...

I've been debating on the shade cloth - probably have to spring for it, though the pond should help keep things a bit cooler - maybe place a fan behind it to cool some air by blowing over it.

I have a few tropicals I'd like to put in for both the kids & me. Mostly fruits of some kind - dwarf bananas, a passiflora or 2 and I found a dwarf mango that is just calling to me to join my family. My citrus would probably move in as more-or-less permanent residents as well.

We have natural gas, so probably a leg over there to supply the heater.

Should I use a block footer, tho? And insulate it? We usually don't get very hard frosts here, but we've been known to on occasion. And should/could I plant my dwarf trees right in the ground inside? Or is the pot size what keeps them dwarf? So many things to consider! ;-)

Hi BackyardZoo, here are some thoughts, in no particular order...

Regarding the trees, you can keep them dwarf by way of the container (think bonsai) or you can use dwarf trees in the ground.

You are talking about in-ground tropicals and subtropicals, right? This is what I primarily grow in my greenhouse. I built my GH in the standard fashion and then dug out a central bed and installed 24" raised beds around the perimeter. Mango, guava, bananas, lychee, BOP, heliconias, jasmine, etc in the beds. Here is a pic, in case it gives you any ideas.

Citrus will be challenging to grow in the ground. I'd keep them in contaiiners if I were you.

Minimum temp? I used 55*F last year. Some of your plants might have a chill requirement (citrus, lychee) so keep that in mind.

Cooling will be the biggest issue. Don't even try to do it with passive ventilation alone. Natural or passive ventilation will keep you to within 20-30*F of the outside temp. That's 120-130*F if it hits 100*F. With permanent residents in there you will almost certainly need at least shade cloth and active ventilation. You will probably need a mister or fogger or evap cooler as well. If you do some sort of variation where the structure wasn't entirely enclosed, but just screened in, then the warmer months won't be such as problem.

The pond will still be a great source of thermal mass. It will help to even out the temp variations.

Why not insulate the footer? Do it right the first time!

Great project, keep us posted, with pics!

SB

That's a beautiful pic, SB! Wonderful!

And yep, I agree, cooling will be a big factor (much more so than heating).

SB, I love lychee! Have you gotten fruit from yours? ( I used to pick them in Florida but have never tried them here in NC/g-house environment.) I'd also like to try some guava as well as loquat. (Love them loquats!)

Shoe.

Well, the company where I'm eyeing the greenhouse, also has an evaporative cooler for a not-too-bad price. Guess I'll toss that into the mix. Wonder if I can rig it to run off of the pond water so I don't have to re-fill it? (yes, I'm lazy ;-) ). And the shade cloth. I've also been eyeing some clematis of the type III pruning schedule - let it grow up over the greenhouse during the summer & prune it back for the winter months..

And Lowes and 'Mr Landscaper' will almost definitely be supplying me with misters and other automatic watering stuff (I mentioned I was lazy...)

So what exactly does lychee taste like? I don't believe I'd ever even heard of it before getting on here.

Stressbaby, what are the chill requirements of citrus? I've been growing then in my house, and we let it get down to 58 at night in winter, and they do flower and fruit, but not every year. (maybe that's why?) I was going to move them to the GH when we get it built (few more months), so I better figure out my temperature range soon, huh?

Hi Larisa,

Citrus' chill requirements vary by species but generally it's around 850 hours below 68*F.

My lychee flowered and set fruit, bt they fell off before they got very big. They are said to taste like sweet, creamy pears. I've only had the canned kind and that is not supposed to be the same thing as fresh.

SB

Thanks so much, Sressbaby. below 68 I can do.
Larisa