Straw Bale Gardening - Part 4

Part 3: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/598673/

Part 2: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/590925/

Part 1: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/584625/


Join our map: www.frappr.com/strawbalegardeners

This message was edited Jun 12, 2006 1:50 PM

Ok, to borrow some of the words of that famous philosopher, POGO, I have met the enemy and the enemy is ME!

I had a good conversation with Dr. Carl Matyac, Wake Co. Agricultural Extension Agent, about bale gardening in general and my plant problems.

I am now convinced I was watering TOO MUCH in relation to the amount of NITROGEN I was giving to my plants. I was washing out the little bit of nitrogen introduced with the Miracle Gro.

I wasn’t drowning the plants in the traditional sense, but depriving them of valuable nutrients essential for plant growth.

Nitrogen is used up in 3 ways: by the vegetable plants in the bales, the microbes inside the decomposing bale, and by leeching due to watering. Too much leeching creates a shortage for the plants.

(In retrospect, we had drought conditions in NC last year so my watering and fertilizing was evidently in the right proportions since we had so little rain. I just lucked out.)

Dr. Matyac told me of an experiment he did in Arizona where he grew beautiful vegetables in nothing more than river sand.

The key was his drip irrigation system that watered/fertilized his plants twice a day for about 20 minutes each session.

This is probably the root of my problem: my ratio of water to feeding was way off.

I think that is why you’re seeing such great results from MELINDA, SALEMSUNSHINE, and HMSTYL and others who have devised their own drip-style systems, or those who are using homemade “TEAS”.

When they water they feed at the same time.

Since I cut back on watering, I can already see a difference. Now all I have to do is combine my watering with feeding for a little while.

Dr. Matyac said it was almost impossible to OVER fertilize with Miracle Gro since it was so diluted. The same goes for 10-10-10, etc., that has been dissolved in water. Just use them in the right proportions. Example: if using 24-8-16 Miracle Gro which calls for 1 tablespoon/gallon, just use approx 2 tablespoons/gallon of 10-10-10

He also stated that residual herbicides would have an IMMEDIATE effect on plants, so we ruled that out right away because my problem was a gradual effect. (But I had already confirmed my supplier didn’t use any herbicides.)

We discussed why bale gardening produces relatively pest & disease-free plants.

The bales provide a sterile environment to start with, and being off the ground, the plants don’t get affected by soil-borne diseases and pathogens. Cut worms etc also have a hurdle to over come.

By the way, I have emailed Dr. Matyac the bale analysis that Melinda had done awhile back so he can explain what the numbers mean. I should have that ready for the group soon.

So, what we have with bale gardening is essentially an organic, instant raised bed garden that requires the proper ratio of water and nutrients and sun for the plants.

That ratio is going to come with experience which we are all rapidly getting.

All of you have been INSTRUMENTAL in contributing to our knowledge about bale gardening and I salute you for your efforts.

Kent,

Sorry I haven't weighted in lately, been busy. My results are a mixed bag, some plants are doing great while others not so good. I've been watering once a day but I'll admit that I haven't been feeding them at all.

My broccoli plants were a complete bust. I think it was because the plants were stressed when I raised them, left in containers too long and got root bound. They all produced little "button" heads of broccoli, including those planted in-ground.

My Mexico and Big Red tomato plants are doing great, better than the in-ground plants. No fruit set as yet though. My Amish Paste have started to set fruit but are not nearly as healthy as those planted in-ground or in earth boxes. The Stupice is setting lots of fruit but is spindly looking compared to my in-ground plant.

My onions are also a mixed bag, some doing great and others dying prematurely.

I'll take some pictures tomorrow and get them posted.

This is an excerpt from a bale gardener in Murphy, NC, that I recently received and thought it was worth posting here.

Hello Kent,

Our 8-bale straw garden is doing really good. However, we do not use Miracle Gro fertilizer or any other chemical fertilizer.

Miracle Gro does have an organic potting soil with natural fertilizer, which we put on top of each bale, plus a small amt of our composted manures. Every time we water, some of the soil and natural fert goes into the bale. We do this about once a week, packing a small amt of the soil around each plant.

Also, we only water once a day, in the a.m. Our tomatoes are doing great, the squash seeds we planted are going crazy and our eggplants are continuing to grow and bloom. We are really happy with this type of gardening. It truly is a lot less work. We hope our experiment continues to be a success so that we can use this method in our greenhouse.

Also, just a thought, why not place cardboard under each bale?

This would deter all growth of weeds and bugs that like to live in the hay. We have a friend who did this and she told us that it was wonderful. As she put down each new bale on top of the old composted one, she added cardboard between the layers. She says that her area is totally weed free and she is not having problems with "bad" insects in the bales.

Hopefully we will be able to send you some photos. Speaking of which, your Dad's garden looks great!

Thanks again for all the updates...
K. in Murphy

Kent - I think you found the key - the drought conditions last year. We have drought conditions here this year, and I just read the rain deficit is now 12-1/2 inches for northeast Georgia!!! If we had more rain this year, my manure tea might not be producing the same results, as it would be leaching away in the rain.

I like that idea about putting the cardboard under the bales. Maybe if I had put sheets of cardboard under the bales I would not have weeds growing up in between the bales now. Something to remember for next year.

Great news Kent! I am glad you solved the mystery, because I really love growing in strawbales. I bring my ice chest out and set on it and it is the perfect height for doing whatever I need to do with the vegetables -- no backaches or kneeaches 8-).

Here's a few up-dated pictures of my strawbale plants, all of the pictures are taken @ six weeks after setting plants:

Doing really good is a Mexico tomato with a Yellow Crookneck summer squash.

This message was edited Jun 13, 2006 9:03 PM

Here's one of my Big Red tomatoes.

Not doing so well is my Amish Paste tomato.

Doing so-so is the Stupice.

Althought the Stupice plants are a little spindly, they are loaded with blossoms and are setting lots of fruit.

Here's a picture of both Mexico tomato plants set out six weeks ago.

For comparison, here's a Mexico planted in-ground, set out at the same time. All the Mexico tomato plants have lots of blossoms but are not setting fruit as yet.

All of this tells me I need to fertilize my bales - I may be the opposite of Kent!

My tomatoes are doing wonderful, my squash and cucumber are producing great, I have a small pumpkin, no cantalopes or watermellons yet and the peppers are not doing as well as the peppers in the ground, but everything else is comparable. I put my bales on an old tarp. I had to poke some drain holes in it, but it keeps the weeds and grass down around the bales, so I don't have to weed around them. I love the way to grow veggies.

Big red, you must be very tall. :)

haha, I was thinking the same thing. Looking at those pics I felt like I was about 10 feet above those bales. Big Red, your plants look great! You have done well at keeping all those different mater plants sorted out. I lost a few in the beginning and then replanted and now I wouldn't swear that I got the right ones in the last couple bales!

Nope, just barely 6 feet. I have a brother who is 7' - 4", now THAT"S tall!

hmstyl, I have the same problem, if you'll notice I have tags on each pole so I can tell them apart. ☺

Those tomatoes look pretty darned good after looking at mine with nothing but blossoms on them. But, they are coming along.

Jeanette

We had done the bales also at our folks retirement community. All was well at first.....then the bales needing the intensive watering caused a problem with their plot draining onto the adjoining plots and well....some complaints occurred. So, DH drove over last Saturday and loaded all the bales and brought them home. He parked the trailer on our lot and left it - we had done some flowers for them also as I said. These bales have had no fertilizer and no added soil; we also did not water these bales for the entire week - just look at how well they're doing !!

And another view ..

And the annual flowers are just blooming their heads off !

Updated pic of my zucchini. Compare that with the 6/03 pic in my diary. Big change since I cut back on so much water and only once/week feeding. I'm feeding about 3 times per week now.

The tomatoes in the background are Parks Whoppers. Some doing better. Some struggling, still. They should be 4 - 5 ft tall.

Other updated pics in my diary to compare from 6/03.

Peppers are doing better, and I'm getting a few off. Habaneros still struggling. Cukes picking up and blooming well. The puny squash are still puny. The surviving heirloom tomatoes that Melinda sent have done much better.

The wheat grass has taken on a whole new, healthier look. I haven't even cut it. It was great to have something GREEN for a change!! LOL

So, it looks like I'm going to salvage most of my bale garden from what looked like a disaster.

Talk about watering, we got over 7 inches of rain last Wed from Tropical Storm Alberto.

Edited for typos.


This message was edited Jun 18, 2006 6:16 PM

Great news! I am glad for you! 8-)

Kent, that's great! You surely did find the key to that problem quickly. I am so jealous - 7 inches of rain!!! We can only dream of rain around hear.

haleysaunt & hmstyl: thanks; I had about 6 hungarian yellow banana peppers with my supper last night and they were SO GOOD!! How I love fresh peppers! 1st produce off the bales for me.

I have not had anything to harvest yet, but I have green tomaots, a few bigger than golf balls.

I have several sweet bell peppers, one getting big, the others catching up, but I won't pick until they are RED!

I have cucumbers that are over 2 inches long, they are sooo cute...

My mouth is watering, I cannot wait for that first ripe tomato!!!

Hey folks, it feels like a long time since I've checked in - our bales are doing beautifully here in Redwood City; we've started eating peppers from the Padrone, the "sparky" and the pimiente d'esplette, and the sweet bells are setting flowers; the hungarian peppers that were teeny-tiny when they went into the bales have outstripped the Nu-Mex peppers, but I don't see more than the first flowers yet.
The tomatoes are doing well, we've pulled and eaten the first few zukes, the eggplant has its first little bitty long-purple aubergines-to-be (what gorgeous purple flowers those have!); the gourds are splling over and onto the ground; I've promised them a trellis to climb on, but if I don't get to it, there's plenty of room for them to sprawl about. The cuke is setting its first fruits.
We have little tomatoes on most of the plants that went into the bales on April 29, and we're on our second settings of lettuces (yum! fresh deer-tongue lettuce is wonderful -- I had a little b'loney on my lettuce sammich just now for lunch). The bush beans are in bales, and are blooming and bearing; for whatever reason, our dragon-tongue beans are struggling and not growing quickly (more tea on them, perhaps) but the coco bush beans (not to be confused with cocoa) are flowering like mad this week - pretty light purple flowers, oh my.
I put in some carrot seeds in a couple of inches of soil on the top of one bale, with some chard and little letuces on the other half of the bale; they were older seeds and not so many came up, but the ones that did are growing fine -- I think we'll be able to send an update "look and see!" followup to the person who wrote the article noted a month or so ago back, that root crops may indeed do well i bales (how are those onions, Big Red?).
We've dug some compost into our mud soil, and planted a couple of circles of climbing beans with bamboo tripods for them to climb on; and with the spring's fava beans harvested and composted, we have more flowers, basil, and later tomato starts in the near-to-the-patio plot.
I'll continue to stuff pictures up at http://flickr.com/photos/rtds/ and echo a few of those in my plant diary here; I have a bunch of photos from 5/29 to put up, and more to take, maybe on my afternoon workbreak today. (my treat for finishing a long dissertation editing session for one client!)
I'm glad to see folks sharing pix and "Hi, Kent!" I'm glad your Overwatering Anon. issues appear to be correctly diagnosed and are resolving. I'm waiting to see if you also fall in love with making compost tea, or getting good fish-juice to sprinkle on as you gently water...

Looking up from my work to see the great biomass of tomato plants pleaseth me, greatly.

Ru: Welcome back; keep up the good work; yep, my OA classes are working; I'm still trainable. :-)

ah, Kent, you were only loving them to death! Some of my flower plants just thrive on neglect, while some of my veggies I seem to be smothering with too much attention!

Most recent photos...

Sorry I don't know how to post them all at the same time.

'Black', an heirloom. I'm assuming they will turn black? {shrug}

edited for typos

This message was edited Jun 20, 2006 5:16 PM

Cherokee Purple. Getting pretty big now. I have never tried a CP, and hope it will ripen soon. I did notice that they are an odd shape, and they look like there are four or five connected together.

Just about all of the mater plants have green fruit on them now.

On a couple of my plants, the lower leaves are turning yellow, so I am going to cut back on water and see if that fixes it up. It hasn't seemed to affect the fruit set at all.

I moved all of the broccoli from the raised soil bed to bales, because it was just taking over and shading everything else. It hasn't seemed to slow the broccoli down one bit.

Looking great SS :)

Dea

Salem those pics are 10-8! (That's LEO talk for good.) That broccoli jumps right out of the screen.

All: Keep those pics coming!!

Aaarg!!! I was up-dating my journal on Gardening in Straw and deleted the whole tab by mistake! I'm going to have to re-construct it I guess. :o(

The squash and the pumpkins are just going wild! The plants are so big they slide off the bales and down on the ground, while the roots remain in the bales. Several of my bales have completely collapsed. I took this pic last night when I found out that my mama guinea is now nesting with her babies at night under the huge leaves of a squash plant!

I planted my tomatoes on June 4 and about 1/3 of the plants now have flowers. They are looking green and healthy. I let them alone the first week except for watering, then used Mighty Plant on 1/2 of them and fish emulsion on the other half. Mighty Plant is 18-18-18 so a pretty heavy fertilizer. I haven't tried Messenger on them yet but will do it after 4th of July. Tonight I fertilized them all with Mighty Plant as a foliar feed and a root drench. I 2nd the idea of using cardboard or newspaper between the bales - I have slugs crawling on the bales that were fed with fish emulsion - but not the Mighty Plant bales - prob too high N - it burns them too. I'll get some pics tomorrow. I have been so busy with kids out of school that I haven't even looked at the bales except about every other day. Doesn't seem to be bothering them.