My parents live on 16 acres. Almost 3 was cleared for their house, with a big expansive golf course type lawn. A little more than 3 is timber and 10 is cash rented to a farmer. I can't get it thru to them what all this spraying or putting down granules is doing to the wildlife they have. I could only wish for what all they have. My husband and I were out on Thurs, mowing down all the invasives we cut down last year, when we took a lunch break. While inside, the buzzer (drive alarm system) went off. We looked out and it was a service there to put this crap down. We had our little 5 lb dog with us and there was no way I was taking the chance of this stuff getting on her paws and being absorbed into her. Or her rolling around and it gets onto her. I keep telling them that this stuff isn't good for the wildlife they have, but they doesn't listen. Forbidden are any weeds or any grubs. They are away for a few days and my dad called yesterday to inquire what all we'd done. I told him, then told him we left early on Thurs because of the poison that was being put down. Not only do I not want to breath it, but it's very harmful to our dog. Grubs are out there, moles are there trying to eat the grubs, and coons are there tying to eat both. They tear up the lawn is what I heard. It wasn't a grub killer the guy was putting down, it was weed n feed. I could smell it the minute I walked out.
Does anyone have info, links, anything to help me sway my dad to become at least organic? Any and all help is appreciated. I found a dead house finch there today when I went to water plants on the front porch........
FWIW, I don't have a problem with Round-Up if he wants to spot spray that (we're going to need something to stop the invasives from coming back). It's all the weed n feed and the grub stuff I have a problem with.
Terry
Poisons and wildlife
Well Terry - the best thing I can think of is to educate your parents on the positive aspects of an organic lawn program rather than focusing on the negative aspects of the synthetic lawn program.
I think there are alot of lawn gurus who, once they try an organic program, see the results and are sold on it.
As someone interested in natives and wildlife, you appreciate a diverse habitat... however people like your parents may not share that appreciation. However, lawn guru's can still strive to have the the moncultural dark green carpet social status symbol and do it organically.
I reccomend that you emphasize to your parents that a healthy lawn starts with a healthy soil and an organic lawn program focuses on building the soil rather than the grass. The grass will start to grow healthy and strong because its in healthy soil.
I reccomend the FAQ on Gardenweb's organic forum... they have a great introduction into organic lawn care here:
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/organic/2004020829016580.html
You could print that out and ask your parents to read it.
One thing to keep in mind is that even if your parents don't switch to organic / sustainable practices that is their choice and you should respect it as their choice.
They are free to enjoy their monocultural chemical laden yard as much as you are free to enjoy the diverse habitat that you have created for you and your friends (birds, bugs et al.)
Another simple one page introduction that I like to show people is Craig Tufts introduction that is on the Wild One's web site. There is tons of great info on the wild ones website too.
http://www.for-wild.org/land/tufts_op.htm
This message was edited Jun 12, 2006 10:10 AM
This message was edited Jun 13, 2006 1:54 PM
terryr,
I don't have any suggestions, but I just wanted to know I share your frustration. In a modern world, most folks aren't geared to think about their impact on their human neighbors, let alone the native, non-human creatures and plants.
Good luck.
joe, my parents are always right and I know nothing. I did talk to him about different organic methods I've heard of. Unfortunelty, I don't use anything, so my knowledge is just what I've read. My dad is very quick to tell me you can't believe everything you read. They're interested in wildlife, but they just don't get the balance of it all. The land where their house was built was cleared timber (cleared for them). This spring when I pointed out May apples and trillium's, I was told that "one man's flower is another man's weed". I think that statement came from just not knowing. Somehow it's ingrained in his head that the lawn must be green and weed-free and the only way to get it is to use chemicals. I do respect that it's their choice, but when it isn't working so the solution he's given is to add more powerful poisons? That's when I have a problem. I'm a bare-feet walking around outside type of gal. It's hard to do when I know all the "stuff" that's out there. I also get annoyed when they want to "cut costs". Yet here comes Elm Lawn doing their thing, then they have to pay somebody to cut all that grass. I'm just frustrated and can't get it across to them. I don't know if I can, since I don't know anything anyway. I will follow the links and print them off. I have sent him links, but he always claims to be "too busy" to read anything. But things I've printed off, he does seem to read. Thank you for giving me the links.
4paws, thank you!
(pssst .. terryr)
Place the items that you'd like to encourage him/them to read .. in the unofficial 'library'. But not necessarily 'on top' of any other current reading material ..
- Magpye
If you have spare time, you could offer to take over his lawn care program. Have him pay you to take care of his lawn... does he pay someone to mow his lawn? You will have to take over mowing too. Tell him to give you two years and he will have the best, healthiest lawn he has ever seen. (I will help get you started, virtually of course...)
Mag, that won't work with them. Most times I don't think my mom pays attention to if something has been read or not, she pitches it. I'm better off handing it directly to them and telling one or the other (mostly my dad) to please read. It's interesting dad, just read it.
Another thing that frustrates me, is that they need another bush or something for a spot. Will I do research and tell them what I find? Sure enough, I do all the research, then my dad will tell his LD and his LD will poo poo it. The last time he ended up with those little Fat Albert spruces. Didn't matter that they get invested with mites.....the LD said these were good, so he went with what he said instead. I think it's more that that's what the LD had, he doesn't carry what I suggested. And the spruces now have brown spots and in my moms words "look horrible". sigh.
Terry
Sorry joe, we were typing over each other. I could do that. Easily, I could do that. Yes, he pays for the company to come spread their poisons, he pays for somebody to mow.....when we moved to TN for a while, they hired somebody to prune their bushes and cut back all the perennials. Who prunes Miss Kim lilacs into boxes?? Tell me what I need to do.
I can send you an email with a couple attachments of organic lawn care handouts that I have given at some seminars. You could read through those and then feel free to ask me more specific questions. I don't think I can add attachments to the dmail through this site.
you can email me at culversroot@yahoo.com
You have email joe..........
Terry, if the trilliums, and mayapples are still alive, can you rescue them? I would love to have some. I would protect them like they were the precious things they are. As it is, My garden has, milkweed, and daisies, and a couple of other wildflowers that just grew there. I simply work around them. If I have to move a daisy, I do just that. God does much better at planting than I do, so who am I to destroy it? I love those plants. They definitely have a home here. And the "lawn"? Full of grubs, so mole runs, hunting for grubs. LOL! I go barefoot whenever I do not have to wear shoes, so poisons are out here. Sometimes the critters irritate me (raccoon taking down occupied wren house) but, I have to live with it. Good luck. BAM
Bam, I think I've got part of "problem" solved. It's going to be more labor intensive, but my dad has said we could just spot spray out in the woods. Meaning we go for only the rose and honeysuckle. Joe sent me a few things and I've printed and given them to him. I'm trying to get him to understand and acknowledge that if he truly wants to cut costs, he needs to let a lot his lawn go. I was wrong on my estimate of how big the lawn/house/separate garage area is. It's almost 2 acres. So even with a big ole house and a second garage, that's a lot of green that's being "tended" that doesn't have to be. Remind me next spring, I know he has lots of mayapples. I could probably send you some.
Which reminds me...joe, yoo hoo joe! Did you get my last email? I sent two within minutes of each other....not the little girl sitting on daddy's lap one......
I saw the mail and I have been meaning to reply but then I haven't logged on to yahoo email in awhile - so I forgot - oops - sorry.
My interent provider has been updating equipment so the service has been spotty at best.
uh-huh...sure...:o) HEY What's wrong with our water????? Here I've been drinking it, all day yesterday, then I found out this morning we have a boil order?? What did you do??? Mike's gonna be on the radio in about 15 minutes.
I haven't worked for Mike in a few years so I don't know. He probably had main break, lost pressure, or they are working on the system.
Let me know what he says.
ps. you have email.
This message was edited Jun 21, 2006 11:13 AM
YARD WORK - AS VIEWED FROM HEAVEN:
YARD WORK - AS VIEWED FROM HEAVEN
(overheard in a conversation between God and St. Francis):
God: Francis, you know all about gardens and nature; what in the
world is going on down there in the U.S.? What happened to the
dandelions, violets, thistles and the stuff I started eons ago?
I had a perfect no-maintenance garden plan. Those plants grow
in any type of soil, withstand drought, and multiply with
abandon. The nectar from the long-lasting blossoms attracts
butterflies, honeybees, and flocks of songbirds. I expected to
see a vast garden of color by now. All I see are patches of
green.
St. Francis: It's the tribes that settled there, Lord. They are
called the Suburbanites. They started calling your flowers
"weeds" and went to great lengths to kill them and replace them
with grass.
God: Grass? But it is so boring, it's not colorful. It doesn't
attract butterflies, bees or birds, only grubs and sod worms.
It's temperamental with temperatures. Do these Suburbanites
really want grass growing there?
St. Francis: Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it has grown a
little, they cut it....sometimes two times a week.
God: They cut it? Do they bale it like hay?
St. Francis: Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put
it in bags.
God: They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?
St. Francis: No sir, just the opposite. They pay to throw it
away.
God: Now let me get this straight...they fertilize it to make it
grow and when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it
away?
St. Francis: Yes, sir.
God: These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we
cut back on the rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows
the growth and saves them a lot of work.
St. Francis: You aren't going to believe this Lord, but when the
grass stops growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more
money to water it so they can continue to mow it and pay to get
rid of it.
God: What nonsense! At least they kept some of the trees.
That was a sheer stroke of genius, if I do say so myself.
The trees grow leaves in the spring to provide beauty and shade
in the summer. In the autumn they fall to the ground and form a
natural blanket to keep the moisture in the soil and protect the
trees and bushes. Plus, as they rot, the leaves become compost
to enhance the soil. It's a natural circle of life.
St. Francis: You'd better sit down, Lord. As soon as the leaves
fall, the Suburbanites rake them into great piles and pay to
have them hauled away.
God: No way! What do they do to protect the shrubs and tree
roots in the winter to keep the soil moist and loose?
St Francis: After throwing the leaves away, they go out and buy
something called mulch. They haul it home and spread it around
in place of the leaves.
God: And where do they get this mulch?
St. Francis: They cut down the trees and grind them up to make
mulch.
God: Enough! I don't want to think about this anymore.
Saint Catherine, you're in charge of the arts. What movie have
you scheduled for us tonight?
St. Catherine: "Dumb and Dumber," Lord. It's a really stupid
movie about....
God: Never mind--I think I just heard the whole story from Saint
Francis!
Love it Mark!!! So true and so funny!
I love that!
I do too! It was in something that I printed off. Don't know if it was from a link above, or something joe sent me. Anyway, my dad DOES NOT like it. You should have heard him. Who wants a yard full of thistles? Or dandelions? Clover? And GRUBS??? Oh, surely you jest............*sigh*
P.S. I think I'll put myself up for adoption. Anybody? Anybody?
yes - Terry that was attached to something that I gave you...
Its supposed to be humorous... I am sorry if your Dad didn't think it was funny.
How old is your dad anyway?
I thought it was hilarious! I had read it before and kept thinking I need to find it and then you sent it. He's 69. Mom is 67.
Maybe you need to get ahold of Jeff Foxworthy or Larry the Cable Guy and have them pay a visit!! Bet your dad would have a heart attack! LOL
Joe, it is humorous, but in a satirical way. The people who do not like it, are the ones who are doing those very things! I have goldenrod, buttercups, wild daisies (the domestic ones won't last here. Too cold!), lots of dandelions. I just dig the ones too close to my garden beds. I want more milkweed for the fragrance, and for the butterflies. The wild flowers are wonderful. This year, there is a lovely white one (yet to be identified) blooming at the northeast corner of my trailer. I will not take it out. It is lovely! Life is good. And to integrate my cultivated gardens with the natural plants is a good thing. BAM
Here's a picture to give an idea. This is just a small part of all the green. Taken last fall.
That is a lot of green (area) to load with poisons. Too bad. Good luck in your campaign. I would rather leave it alone. But, my family was somewhat the same, as far as little regard for the ecosystem. But, then, they did not know. We do, so it is up to us to do what we can to maintain (or remediate) the fragile balance. BAM
I think humankind all got kind of convinced by a Leave It to Beaver standard back in the 50s when the war was over and things at home were going to be perfect. A perfect yard is as realistic as doing the laundry in high heels and pearls, of course. I'm nudging my lawn toward a natural state, but it will take a while, and I suppose I will have to have at least a swath of lawn.
But not in the back yard! PHHFFFFFFTTTT.
:q --- don't know how to draw me thumbing my nose at the yard nazis.
WHAT??? I'm not supposed to be doing the laundry wearing heels and pearls?? Darn, guess I better go change.........:o))
Too funny, Brigid! I always thought that was ridiculous, myself. You will find me most days, in cut off blue jeans, a flimsy top, barefoot, with a reprehensible hat on!
At that time, I will also be crawling around, weeding, or edging, feeding, whatever. If you stop to visit, you are welcome, but, I will probably keep
working while we talk. Not the best hostess, I guess.
I find no reason to ask forgiveness for the dirt on me. It is honest dirt, from the earth. It will wash off.
So happy to meet all of you who want to preserve Earth and its wonders.
A new butterfly today, so that was a wonderful surprise. Black and white stripe across its wings. Admiral? Was very pleased to see it.
Keep up the good fight, and forget the high heels! LOL! BAM
High heels don't even make good compost. I know. I've tried.
That's a first for me. Never heard of anyone trying to compost their heels. I don't know whether to laugh or just shake my head. Maybe you could broze them and make them into garden art!! LOL
Edited to say bronze not broze.
This message was edited Jun 25, 2006 10:36 AM
If the shoes were big enough, you could plant something in them. :-) Maybe mount several and use like a strawberry jar.
I enjoyed the God/St. Francis conversation very much.
Yeh God and St. Francis just rings to true...Try showing them some movies that help drive home the point, top of my head Medicine Man, March of the Penquins (like the special features on this one as much as the show)
Sometimes parents can't take direction from their child. No matter how old you are, or how educated, they just can't, in their minds, see you as anything but their little girl.
I like the idea of offering them your lawn services, but they might have to see results before buying into your methods. Does your lawn look like their ideal? Is there a space somewhere that you could prove your point? Your yard, their yard, a neighbor's yard? Is there someone's yard that you could take them to that you know is organic and sustainable, yet looks like their ideal?
Some pics of ideals your parents might have, but native lawn: http://www.highcountrygardens.com/27050.html
http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/4DMG/Lawns/bufgrass.htm
http://www.bamertseed.com/buffalo-brochure.html - this one has a pic of the Dallas Pioneer Plaza that is planted w/buffalo
This is why I chose to have backyard science parties for kids. Older people think I'm nuts or don't care, but kids care. Kids like bugs. Kids like to roll in grass. Kids in a very short time will be adults. This is where I can make a difference besides my own little piece.
Your backyard science parties for kids are awesome. Some of the projects you shared with me were just totally kid friendly and so age appropriate! Way to go indirt!
I'm just a big kid, wink wink, as I like to roll in grass and I like bugs! Just ask Equil, I rolled around in her grass...after I fell off the spade of course, and I caught the first lightening bug she saw this season...lol....
My yard...hmm....my yard is definitely not their ideal. We just moved in a little more than a year ago, and really haven't done much but remove it. I will be starting on an organic program this fall. I had to go out yesterday and water the potted plants for my mom. I was amazed at how green their grass is, yet a lot of plants are showing stress. They prefer to water the huuuuuge expanse of lawn and not the plants. Which of course bothers the you-know-what out of me. I had printed out quite a few things that I was given links to and on one, my dad wrote "is this what you plan to use? If so, I need about 800 lbs.". He was talking about the corn meal gluten. I haven't priced anything yet, but I would still think it would be cheaper going that route than his route. I'm not going to push him though. It's his lawn and I can't make him do a thing. If I had one wish, it would be for them to be able to see thru my eyes. See how their pruned green meatballs and the other various plants just look ridiculous. I almost cried when I saw what the guy did do the Allegheny viburnum. But I came home, and looked at mine. And all was right.
I read thru most of the links. I believe my dad told me his grass is a variety of fescue. Not a weed in it. I do have a question though for any and all who would like to respond.....I keep reading how you should leave your lawn something like 4". Our lawn mower won't go up that high. It's set as high as it will go. I haven't measured, but I'm sure it's more like 3". How exactly does one mow at 4"?
I would just mow to your mower's highest setting. I think my mower's highest setting is around 3.5 inches. I do let the grass grow to at least 4 inches before I cut it...
I was thinking maybe we could get some bigger wheels/tires...you know, like soup it up?? j/k
Soup up the mower and join the lawn mower races! And before anyone asks yes there are lawn mower races... for the rednecks!!! LOL