European Starlings and House Sparrows

Several threads here have touched on the subject of two non-native, invasive species in North America. The European Starling and House Sparrow were introduced here in the mid 1800s. The reasons for their introduction were simple. Immigrants “missed” their native birds from Europe and some thought that North America should be “blessed” with all birds that were in Shakespeare’s writings. No bigger mistake could have been made for the fate of native birds at the time. By the late 1800s and early 1900s most folks had realized the error of their ways and man began to try to rectify the problem. It was too late. Bounties were set and the Department of Agriculture even published recipes for these delectable (YUCK!) table fare. It wasn’t long before we realized that it was a lost cause and man began to “put up with” these foreign invaders. Today their numbers in North America are estimated at approximately two million Starling and one and a half million House Sparrows.

So, what’s the problem? They are just two more species of birds for us to watch, right? Nothing could be further from the truth! Both of these birds actively compete with our native birds each year for nesting sites. Starlings nest exclusively in large cavities. They typically compete with our larger cavity nesting birds. House Sparrows prefer to nest in cavities, but will settle for just about any place if a cavity isn’t available. Since man has now reduced the number of available, natural cavities our native birds are under pressure from man and the non-native birds that he introduced. Both Starlings and House Sparrows will readily accept any man made housing that:
1) Allows an entry hole large enough to gain access.
And:
2) In the case of Starlings, is a large enough cavity for Starlings to accept.
This is a serious problem for anyone who enjoys our native birds and especially for those of us who provide nesting boxes for native birds. To compound the problem, Starlings (EUST) and House Sparrows (HOSP) - (S&S) will kill adult native cavity nesters and will kill young native birds. It is common for both species to destroy the eggs of our native birds. Again, our native birds are under enough pressure to reproduce and survive, with habitat destruction running at a good clip and no end in sight.

I could now provide a long list of links to Websites showing graphic photos of the death and destruction caused by S&S across North America. I could also provide links to every major birding organization that advocates the lethal removal of these two species. Our federal government and every state government stand by our birding organizations and in every state that I am aware of it is legal to eliminate these two species at any time of year, with no bag limits. Some states require a hunting license or permit to shoot or trap S&S, so check your local natural resources department before you get started protecting our native birds. Also, some short sighted municipalities have adopted local ordinances that protect ALL birds, so check if you have any doubt. Rather than providing a bunch of gory pictures and supporting links I’ll share some of my personal experiences. Last spring I had my first pair of Eastern Bluebirds nest on my property. I left for work one morning and there were five Bluebird eggs in the nest. I returned nine hours later to find five broken Bluebird eggs and a HOSP nest built on top of the nest of broken Bluebird eggs. Before that incidence I tended to a Bluebird trail that had not been monitored by the person who established it. While almost every box was producing clutches of HOSP, one was particularly disturbing. I removed a HOSP nest to find that it had been built on the corpse of a female Tree Swallow. The Swallow had been pecked to death while incubating her eggs. This year I am tending a small Bluebird trail of ten boxes and have lost one clutch of five Bluebird eggs to a HOSP and believe that one clutch of six Tree Swallow eggs was destroyed by a HOSP.

So, why am I blathering on about this? Too often I find some well meaning person who sticks up a Purple Martin house just to have it turn into an S&S hotel. These breed more birds which are able to kill and compete with our native birds. Also, the abandoned Bluebird trail began to serve the same purpose. If you or a friend decides to offer nesting compartments for birds PLEASE consider what you will do about S&S control before you set up your first box. If you cannot practice lethal control of S&S please consider only offering housing for the smaller Wrens and Chickadees, where a small entrance hole will prevent HOSP from entering the nest box. By allowing S&S to multiply in man made nest boxes we contribute to the reduction of native cavity nesting birds. If you don’t offer housing for birds, but S&S use your property or business for nesting please eliminate the birds or their nests. By doing these things you can contribute to increasing the native bird population in your own “micro environment”.

If lethal control is out of the question (some folks just can’t do it) there are some options. The very best option is to live trap these birds, clip their primary flight feathers and release them. If you can’t do that and just have to have a Bluebird trail you can addle HOSP eggs (works for Starling, too). Just remove the eggs from the nest and shake them as hard as you can, without breaking them. Then return the “scrambled” eggs to the nest. The adults will sit on them for weeks before they give up on them. The nest should be observed to make sure that your addled eggs are the only eggs in these nests. Remember that any Bluebirds or Tree Swallows and their eggs and offspring on your trail will be in jeopardy while HOSP are present. When it comes to Purple Martin housing I strongly urge anyone who will not practice lethal S&S control to not attempt to become a Martin landlord. To be a good martin landlord it takes a lot more than just eliminating these two nest competitors.

Mark Dietrich

I've been reading up on purple martins in preparation for putting up a house. I think I have an ideal location. What is worrying me now is that my next door neighbor has put up 2 bluebird houses, but i think there are HOSPs in at least one of the houses. I don't know the neighbors well and we don't talk often. But if they are going to allow HOSPs to nest should I not put up the martin housing?

I would do my best to educate your neighbor, first. If that's out of the question or the neighbor just won't listen, proceed.

Then, it depends on how you plan to deal with S&S. If you plan to shoot and/or trap (the combination is best) start now! Get a quality air rifle with a scope if it is allowed in your area. Then, put up your own Bluebird boxes. Maybe add a trap just for trapping S&S. You will be able to rid your yard and your neighbor's of S&S without them knowing and do everyone a favor. I have a ton of trapping tips and tricks. Just ask!

I maintain a Martin colony and Bluebird trail combination. I've trapped out nine HOSP from this location this year, visiting just once a week.

Mark

Accolades for addressing some of the issues so eloquently. Good Job Stelco!

I finally got a hold of one the places selling traps today. We weren't home when he called, but I called him back. Got it ordered and it shipped out today. I should have it by Saturday. I'm going to busy, I bet, dispatching HOSPs for awhile.

Terry

Thanks!

I found a bunch of photos. The male is simple to ID. He is the only LBB – Little Brown Bird with a black “bib”. The trick is the female. That’s why trapping is best. I know a female HOSP through a rifle scope, but most folks don’t. Use the standard when shooting. If you don’t know your target don’t pull the trigger. Anyone with a good field guide should be able to positively identify a female HOSP when trapped. The bill is unique, among other things.

For Sturnus vulgaris see the link and replace Passer domesticus in the search box for the HOSP photos. Starlings are usually simple to ID, male or female. If it’s a black bird with a yellow beak (long and pointed) it’s a Starling. Young birds are hard to ID, but get easy to know. The beak is not yellow all year, but for the majority of the time this is the first simple rule to follow. Get to know one when you see it and you will never be wrong with this ID. Starling are a member of the Mina family and if you cage a young one you can teach them to talk. Because S&S are not protected birds they are the only wild bird that you can legally keep.

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=Sturnus+vulgaris&btnG=Search

The other species of Sparrows are many and vary from location to location. The point is well taken to know the species before using lethal control! Killing a species other than S&S is against the law and against what you are trying to achieve.

Congratulations and thank you Terry!!! If it’s a multiple bird trap leave food, water and one live female HOSP in the trap. Good luck!

Mark


This message was edited May 31, 2006 6:48 PM

Yes Mark, it's a 10 bird trap. How do I leave a female when I'm dispatching the way I intend?

I also forgot, welcome to DG!

Terry

They are easy to pull out. You reach in and pull a female out and place it in another trap. When you have dispatched the remaining English House Sparrows, place the female back in the 10 bird trap. They will not peck holes through your hand if that is what you are thinking might happen.

Regarding Starlings, many people mistake them for Grackles. Grackles hop and Starlings walk if that makes sense. In addition, Starlings have a dark brown beak that changes to the yellow described by Mark sometime in spring and doesn't change back to dark brown around me until sometime around Thanksgiving time. There is no mistaking them during this time. Regarding the male English House Sparrow, I find the gray patch on the top of his head to be a dead giveaway.

Thanks Terry,

I'd go with the advice given if you are comfortable with that. Just make sure that you don't let one get away from you! Those darn SCUBA outfits are so hard to put on a female HOSP! :)

And when I come up, you're going to show me exactly how it's done, correct?? I need to figure out another trap for the female while the rest are being dispatched.
I know starlings, but I haven't seen any here. Will miracles never cease? Starlings have markings on their bodies and grackles just shimmer blue in the sunlight. I never really paid attention to their beaks. I do know the difference though.

We typed over each other Mark. Is there other advice? I don't want one to get away either, that's my question. Just reach in and grab it? And darn, I hope they remember to send me at least 1 scuba outfit :o)

You are just getting started. Take it step by step. See if you can bait some into the trap area starting tomorrow. Plenty of millet and milo (cheap stuff). Give them a few feathers if you have some. When the trap arrives just set it where you have baited and see how many you get. Of course, you will have baited the trap with food and feathers. Let it fill up with HOSP if you can. Rinse, lather, repeat.

When you don't trap birds we can move on. Be careful and look for any Sparrows that don't look like HOSP. You will probably get a Chipping Sparrow in the mix. That will teach you how to remove birds. It's easy - REALLY, I PROMISE! Next year you can come for a visit and I'll let you put latex gloves on and reach behind a Martin mud dam to count eggs by feel (no skin oil on bird eggs!).

Wait! What feathers? This is the first time I remember anyone saying I needed feathers. I can take a run out to Wally World tomorrow and get some cheap seed. I need to look up a chipping sparrow. I don't believe I've ever seen one. I am taking it step by step, I just want to make sure I know what my steps are :o)

Terry

Don't you just hate it when that happens? You think you have all the info you need only to find out you missed a step!

Terry, you can place your female HOSP in a pillow case. That is simple enough. The white feathers they like can be pulled from any feather pillow you have in the house. Just take off the pillow case and you should find enough white feathers. I stick the feathers in the ground like a quill sort of in the blades of grass and then place the trap down on top of the trap so the feathers are sticking up for them to see. They love cheap bird seed from WalMart so that will work just fine.

These are the Sparrows I have been told have been in my yard over the past 5 years and you might get similar-
Field Sparrow
Savanna Sparrow
Chipping Sparrow
Tree Sparrow
Swamp Sparrow
White Throated Sparrow
Vesper Sparrow
Song Sparrow

There are others around here she has mentioned but I don't know what they are. This one girlfriend of mine is major league into birds and she brings binnoculars over here and keeps a list. She jumps up and down every once in a while when she spots something she doesn't normally see a lot of. I am in a flyway and I guess I get some odd ball birds here. Anyway, I am not a birder and many of these female Sparrows start looking alike to me after a while so I always look for the gray blotch on the male HOSP's head.

Hope that helps.

There are tons of sparrows here, and I can tell very few of them for certain. Well, two. The barred or crowned sparrows that just pass through, and the tree sparrow. My worst banes are the red-winged black-birds (Hordes of hungry marauders!) and the beautiful pain in the back-side Bluejays! Are those blackbirds what you call grackles? I have no trouble identifying starlings. I learned about those when as a small child, a blue bird was driven from her nest by starlings. My father started shooting the starlings then and there. I do not ever remember seeing another bluebird since. People here put up bluebird houses, but I never see one.
The only houses I put out are wren houses. I love the tiny wrens, so pert and active. When the male spots a likely home, he sings, dances, and puts on such a show, convincing his mate "This is it!"
I love seeing the first Baltimore Oriole of the year, but they never nest in my yard. I have a lot of birds that I love, but the hogs make it rough on them, for sure. I would love a good air rifle!!! LOL! Any suggestions for the kind to look at? BAM

Hmmm....feather pillows? Never had one. Allergies and all. My mom has allergies also, so they were never allowed in our house. Maybe I can find a cheap one at wally world too. I really need to find my bird book so I don't mess up. I'll make sure to look for the gray spot on the head of the male. I'm 99.9% sure they're the same I ID'ed before as being house sparrows. But I have this seed of doubt in my head. I would die if I harmed a beneficial bird.

Here's a link for images for grackles.

http://images.google.com/images?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=grackles&sa=N&tab=wi

There are several species of Blackbirds. The Grackle is the one with the long tail and shiny, purple head.

You should have Bluebirds. Is there an open field or park where you could put a few Bluebird boxes up? They just need to be checked at least once a week to keep House Sparrows from breeding.

Your Orioles would probably stay if you fed them. Put up a 4X4 or something similar and nail a half of an orange to it when you start seeing Orioles. They also like grape jelly and the same nectar mix that we feed Hummingbirds with.

Wrens are nice, but be careful. They will peck eggs of other cavity nesting birds.

A quality air rifle can become an addiction. I shot through a 2X6 that I used for my target backstop after about 500 rounds of .177 pellets. Don't skimp on an air rifle. A cheap one will just make you frustrated. You should get one with a scope. I cannot say enough about the following Website and the quality of serice that these folks offer. They are great guys very willing to help.
http://www.straightshooters.com/
I chose the Beeman R9 with a Bushnell scope and was very happy. If you can afford it go with the compressed air models. "Springers" like my R9 are hard to get used to if you have shot a lot of conventional guns. They have the normal recoil and then an immediate opposite recoil (forward) when the spring hits its forward limit.

Mark

Holy Toledo!! Is an air gun/rifle not a bb gun??

I jsut asked my dad and he says they all shoot bbs but some of the bb guns are spring loaded and some use compressed air or CO2.

And some are really expensive! I've got my trusty Ducks Unlimited bb gun....just pump and shoot.....

Those are the best ones!! We have 2 red ryder bb guns, though right now only one works and I love to shoot the blue jays and crows and sparrows.

Better be careful with those Red Riders... or you're gonna shoot your eye out. Just kidding and I don't mean to change the subject but I saw this move called "A Christmas Story" and the kid sticking his tongue on the flag pole and the broken glasses from the recoil got me to thinking of all of us ladies out there trying to shoot air guns.

edited to correct a spelling oops.

This message was edited Jun 1, 2006 6:44 PM

It is a funny to think about that. I can see all you wives aiming the bb gun a your hubbys when they make you mad. You don't shoot it but they get the message all the same.

Don't shoot it? Darn, I had it wrong....:o))

Ah pepper! Too funny, I thought you were a her. It always cracks me up when I get this image in my head of another member and later learn I was way off base.

We've got kids here and I'm not all that fond of firearms to begin with yet in these Scout programs they all use BB guns so needless to say we have one rule in the house... no pointing so much as even a toy gun at anyone. He who dares to point any gun at anything that breathes will end up losing a corner of his BB gun card and will be grounded for a week. Squirt guns being the exception but still no pointing in the face. We do have an unloaded competition air gun with a good laser sight by the back door. Nobody but my husband touches that and so far everyone has been respectful but then again we didn't get one until they had all taken their BB gun classes and were a little bit older. (sigh) I admit it. I was one of those parents who did not allow toy guns. A few years ago I realized they were making their own out of legos and tinker toys and was aghast. My husband smirked and said "boys will be boys". I figured if we had to have one here it was best to take the mystery out of it by letting them take the classes and by not hiding it. I still haven't shot the air gun. I have no intentions of shooting it either. My bad.

I am a her!!! I just happen to have 3 brothers who are pratical jokers and good shooters.

This subject could be a whole new thread!

An air rifle can shoot pellets, BBs or both. It’s all in the caliber of the gun. Usually guns that shoot both are low quality. I cannot stress enough how important buying a quality gun is. Last summer my uncle and I hit four out of four cherry tomatoes at 50 yards! You cannot do that with the best WalMart gun with a scope. It is best to save up and buy something that will really make you happy.

Air rifles all shoot a projectile using some type of pressurized air to accomplish the task. CO2 powered rifles are nice from the standpoint that they do not need to be pumped or cocked to fire another round. They are also, usually, a poor quality weapon. CO2 cartridges cost a lot if you shoot a lot and the velocity is usually low. Some are pump type rifles, which compress air in a chamber when pumped. These are also, usually, low end guns that fire at a relatively low velocity. Then we move into “springers”. These are your mid-range guns price wise. They can deliver a fast, accurate projectile by “breaking” the barrel, which compresses a spring. When the trigger is pulled a plunger at the end of the spring forces air from a chamber through the barrel. The top of the line, competition rifles are PCP guns. They are pre charged with a SCUBA tank or special compressor. These are the fastest, most accurate, most expensive air rifles on the market. They can shoot many rounds before being recharged.

If I am going to control House Sparrows and Starlings with an air rifle I want one that can reach out to 50 yards, or so AND is virtually guaranteed to hit the target unless I do something wrong. You really have to plan on spending about $500.00 on a quality gun and scope. This gets you into the springer models. To upgrade to a PCP plan on tripling the price to get started. I’ve hit my share of S&S with a $100.00 gun with iron sights. I’ve also missed many more than I care to think of. If you are considering a quality weapon, but cringe at the price, I cannot tell you how many countless hours you will spend with your gun, just practicing. It is an addicting sport.

Since I started this thread I feel responsible for not doing something that I should have done right away. I need to take a minute to try to fix this. House Sparrows and Starlings are the subject and the problem that we need to control to help our native birds. They are not native to North America, so like the feral Pigeon they are not protected by federal or state laws. A few exceptions are made in some states for members of the Blackbird family. Exceptions are also made for game birds. ALL OTHER BIRDS ARE PROTECTED BY FEDERAL AND STATE LAWS AND INTERNATIONAL TREATIES!!! I have known people who would not think twice about shooting a Hawk or Owl. When we start to try to do what is best for some of our native birds it is natural for some folks to take it to the next level. They see a Crow take a Robin baby, so Crows become open targets. Blue Jays make a lot of noise and rob nests sometimes, so why not add them to the list? This is a slippery slope. Before long the Blue Jay killer moves on to Hawks and Owls. In my opinion and the laws that we are supposed to live by we need to think before we pull the trigger. Does my neighbor enjoy Blue Jays? Is it my right to take that joy from them? Do I really want to do jail time for killing a protected bird? It happens! Ultimately, it is the decision of each individual. You know what is right and what is wrong. Please don’t cross the line and if you have please reconsider your motives for taking the life of a protected, native bird.

Mark


This message was edited Jun 1, 2006 8:25 PM

Thanks for the info. It really helps.

Hey!! My dad bought this bb gun at one of those Ducks Unlimited auctions. I know he paid over $500 for that dern thing. Now you tell me it ain't worth squat?? Well humph! It shoots bb's and pellets. I'm right smack dab in the center of town, so I sure won't be shooting any sparrows or starlings here.

If you pay over $500.00 for any air rifle you will be getting a quality weapon. While it might shoot BBs (as I mentioned caliber - probably .177) it might not be a good idea for the weapon. With a quality air rifle the projectile should have a perfect fit. Most air rifles in that price range have a rifled barrel.

Can it hit a cherry tomato at 50 yards? :)

I never tried, but I will now! My dad bought it at the DU auction, so who knows how much it would actually cost at a store. Then again, you couldn't buy mine at a store...it has the fancy Ducks Unlimited insignia on it. It's speshul.

Our kitchen sink is nestled in the corner of the kitchen. There are two windows over my sink in that corner. One faces east and one faces south. The window facing east looks out directly to the main birdfeeder I have. My husband props that window open and he shoots from there while lying on the kitchen counter with the air rifle out the window resting on the sill. My husband came from a family that hunted. He grew up surrounded by hunters although he never hunted. He never cared for much other than skeet shooting. So needless to say he finds this whole process extremely distasteful but, he does it. He can hit an English House Sparrow that is perched inches from a native bird and I've seen him do it countless times. The whole process is very quick and I've seen woodpeckers and flickers hanging sideways on suet dispensers that were inches away from the HOSPs continue eating undisturbed. We bought a competion air gun with a good laser for the sole prupose of being able to someday put back up our wood duck nesting boxes as well as to be able to use our Bluebird nesting boxes. This is the year I will have my first Martin house. I've got kids here, we want the native birds. I know dispatching of HOSPs and EUSTs should be done and that the State and Local agencies are not only encouraging but promoting the humane destruction of these birds but I still can't do it myself. It's just not in me. One thing, we're on five acres here. Behind our property is forest preserve. We are not on a city lot and if we were, we'd have to rely upon the ground traps exclusively. To be able to dispatch Starlings, all we do is seed our front lawn and shoot out the dining room windows. For some reason, seeding a lawn around here brings in a good hundred EUSTs or so. You have to be careful with this because there will be native birds mixed in with them and it is not uncommon to see a Grackle or a Red Wing Blackbird in and amongst them. My Dad is as good of a shot as my husband and there are two windows in the dining room. My dad has helped my husband on weekends. My Dad volunteers teaching kids how to shoot safely and properly at workshops. I have one older brother who is an arms expert. He acquired his skills while serving in the military and he was a trainer. Occassionally he comes over and helps. They are all good shots. I would suggest buying a small trap with paper targets from WalMart if one is going to go this route and practice practice practice practice. They make them just for this purpose. The trap is a little box that has an arm that extends down that you can clip a paper target to.

Hi,

I just started trapping HOSP this year, and I highly recommend this repeating sparrow trap:

http://sparrowtraps.net/

The guy who makes them is very helpful and will answer all your questions. He also sells on Ebay. I am a lifelong city dweller who is much better at shopping than trapping/fishing or anything related, but even I have used the trap successfully.

I also ended up catching a house wren, a Carolina wren and a female cardinal, which were easy to remove and release without the HOSPs escaping.

Also, please let me point out the Eurasian Tree Sparrow, which we have in the St. Louis metro area. I believe it has spread out some and may be in Illinois as well. This bird looks almost EXACTLY like the male HOSP but is not a destructive killer.

I have seen one or two Eurasians in my yard. The can be ID'ed by a spot on the side of the head the male HOSP doesn't have.

Info on Eurasian Tree Sparrow:
http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/id/framlst/i6883id.html

Here's some more pictures & info form http://www.sialis.org/ :

http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm

Another great site for info on HOSPs is the Bluebird nut at http://www.bluebirdnut.com/index.html check the information link on the left for tons of info. The forum at bluebird nut also has many experienced bluebirders who trap HOSPs and sometimes the issue is discussed, albeit with great caution.

I never knew anything about HOSPs or starlings before I decided to start feeding birds and did some research. Good luck and I hope this helps.


Edited to include this link of pics of HOSPs vs. native sparrow species:
http://p202.ezboard.com/fbluebirdnutcafefrm18.showMessage?topicID=152.topic

This message was edited Jun 2, 2006 12:54 PM

My trap came today. I must have been blocking out the part about putting out food in the area for 5 days prior? Another question. What do you use to put the birdseed and water in? In the meantime, I need to go out and put some birdseed down. I suppose you just put it on the ground? Or do I use the same container I'll use for food? Butter dish? I have no clue...please advise!

Terry

I just cut the bottom out of some plastic cups and set it in the trap. I'm home alot so I can check the trap often if it it spills.

I had read where someone bought the kind of food & water dispensers you put in bird cages at petsmart or someplace like that and fastened them in just fine.

Maureen

I take a sheers and butch the grass where I plan on setting the trap. I usually fill up my bird feeder with cheap Walmart seed a few days before to get them coming to the area. From there I stick little white feathers in the ground sticking up so that I can set the trap over the top of those and they are visible. From there I toss in bread, french fries, and I pour in a pile of cheap bird seed dead center. For water I add little bowls that we used in our gerbil and hamster cages but the actual bird cage dispensers mentioned by mlm01 sound better because you could probably refill them from the outside of the cage easier than trying to use a watering can to refill them from the top.

I have trapped 200 or so a couple of summers ago. I found that white bread or feathers worked best in my area. I have only caught two non-target birds out of 200+. I believe it is because I only use the bread, but I could be wrong. I buy Wonder bread or use white hot dog rolls, the inedible kind of bread. Then I sprinkle little white crumbs around the ground to prime them. Put a bigger piece in on the elevator far enough in so that the bird who wants it has to lean in to get it. Once you have one in the trap, the rest will voluntarily jump in. One day, I forgot to bait the trap and caught 14 or so. I think summer is the best time for trapping. I was catching 10-20 fledglings a day. You come to recognize the brown pattern on their back. I believe HOSP female and juvies are one of the only birds with the solid buff chest and stripe over the eye. House finch females look similar, but have stripes on the chest. The HOSP also has a seed type beak.

Equilibrium, If you have boxes up (I think I read that in another thread), try installing in-box traps this time of year. If you see a HOSP perched on a box cheeping, install the in-box trap and you will have one (sometimes the pair) within a few minutes. It is almost too easy. This guy (Floyd VanErt) sells an awesome in-box trap that is easy to put in and remove and works like a charm. They are relatively inexpensive also. He is a great guy from what I have heard often sending out traps before receiving payment. http://www.vanerttraps.com/

The only caution on in-box traps is that you need to be able to monitor or see your boxes once every 1/2 hour or so because you may have caught a native bird inadvertently. Also, you don't want to keep a sparrow trapped for more time either since that would be inhumane.

My problem with using bread, luring them so to speak, would be my dog getting and eating the bread. Her favorite food! I'll come up with something. Maybe another trip to wally world is in order. I forgot about the feathers too. See? You thought I was able to do this. I'm having trouble and blocking or forgetting details I mustn't forget!

I have a VanErt trap, I have a whole collection of traps. I have to use them on the weekends when my husband is around for just the reasons you mentioned.

Hey von76, I clicked on your user name and you are new. A very warm welcome to you.

Lauren