Uh-oh . . .

Another hoofed rat story from the DG wildlife forum . . . sit back and wait for the sparks ;-))

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/608846/

Yeah, it is a shame they're soooo destructive and sooo numerous. I can recall a time, decades ago, when I was thrilled to see them too. But not since the mid-70s, here in Illinois. By the way, everyone, is that about when the problem exploded in your areas?

Guy S.

Y'all have deer, we have nutria. The damage they are causing to trees is unbelievable. They eat at the roots until the tree dies. They eat the grasses that hold soil together and then we have erosion on the riverbanks, canal banks, etc. And, a nutria is sooooo ugly; a deer is at least a beauty to behold.

Looks a bit like Muskrat, which is very common around here.

Can ya make yourself a coat out of it or something? Any Nutria recipes circulating around these days? Those Nutria are equally as destructive as deer.

Is Nutria love the same as Muskrat love?

Muskrat, muskrat candlelight
Doin' the town and doin' it right
In the evenin'
It's pretty pleasin'

Muskrat Susie, Muskrat Sam
Do the jitterbug out in muskrat land
And they shimmy
And Sammy's so skinny

And they whirled and they twirled and they tangoed
Singin' and jingin' the jango
Floatin' like the heavens above
It looks like muskrat love

Nibbling on bacon, chewin' on cheese
Sammy says to Susie "Honey, would you please be my missus?"
And she say yes
With her kisses

And now he's ticklin' her fancy
Rubbin' her toes
Muzzle to muzzle, now anything goes
As they wriggle, and Sue starts to giggle

And they whirled and they twirled and they tangoed
Singin' and jingin' the jango
Floatin' like the heavens above
It looks like muskrat love

La da da da da ...

OK, a deer is beautiful, but those little nutria have got to be one of the cutest little critters I've seen. They are just adorable. I want to give them all a little pat on the nose. I'm sure they'd all bite me, but that picture is so sweet, they are a little furry family. I know they're destructive from your email, and I don't want them eating my trees either, but I do think they awfully cute.

Hi liveoaklady. We too have Nutria. Surprise uh? Not bad for an animal from Venezuela. Why couldn't some of their trees make the same kind of adjustment? Or some of their cacti? A pair of these turned my pond from a watery oasis with plant life growing into the water into a mud-banked brown waterhole. The lawns around them were stripped, the roots of the plants eaten. It took a whole summer of persistant hunting to eliminate them. This spring, after an absence of 2 years, another pair moved in. Dog got them, but the last one put a hole in my dog's tongue.

The first sign of Nutria presence is when you see the dandelions gone, with a small divot revealing where the root had been. Then all the broadleaves disappear, then the grass roots are eaten. That leaves dirt. Here in the Northeast, they have finished off thousands of acres of wetlands. In Maryland, for instance, they have destroyed a good bit of Blackwater National Wildlife Refuge. Once the plants are gone, the result is a shallow watery expanse with a mud bottom. Erosion from wave action creates shrinking islands and muddies the water. The loss of vegetative cover raises the water temperature. The result is a large expanse of warm shallow mudflats with nutria nests on the edges. They can do to a wetland what deer do to a garden, only quicker. Cute? Not from my perspective. Maybe if I were to live in Michigan they'd be cute. But if I were to describe the pretty greens of an Emerald Ash Borer to a Michigander, they'd be justified on having me get a check-up from the neck up.

Now we just need some Caiman and Anacondas to bring in to eat them. That and wear Nutria.

Oddly enough I don't feel comfortable wearing fur but... they're here and they are taking a devastating toll on our environment so I must admit I would wear Nutria without blinking an eye. I would also use it for throw rugs as well as for coverlets. Fur is unparalleled for warmth when working outside.

This is for you Equil:

The answer to the problem of Nutria overpopulation might lie in Chef Paul
Prudhomme's New Orleans based kitchen, where he has come up with
some rather intriguing Nutria dishes. These fine delights include
the likes of cubed and deep fried Nutria,apple smoked Nutria,
Nutria fricassee, and Nutria tacos. Due to the Nutria's vegetarian
lifestyle, it is a very lean animal, and is said to taste like
rabbit. Not only is Nutria being eaten in New Orleans, but it is
also found on menus in Europe, as well as the orient, and South
America.

Good, I'll eat it. I can't stand wasting anything. I am so glad that there isn't public outcry on recipes for this showing up in restaurants. I hate to be so bold but people in other parts of the world eat cat and dog. I love my Spots and Fluffies as much as everyone else loves their pets and I certainly wouldn't want to eat a personal pet but with so much starvation in the world and with animal shelters destroying and cremating millions of homeless animals annually... my heart wants to know why we Americans don't allow the addition of these animals to our diets. Yes, the thought is somewhat repulsive to me however I am a byproduct of my culture. I must admit the image of a starving child is gut wrenching to me and tears me apart emotionally yet we literally destroy millions of cats and dogs a year and they are wasted while they are able to be eaten over seas. At least horse meat ends up in some dog food. I truly feel horrible for having these thoughts but if anyone out there has traveled and ended up "off the beaten path" away from tourist areas, I am sure you understand the sincerity of my question.

Isn't nutria the root word of nutritious?
Is anyone old enough to remember when Jimmy Carter was attacked by a swimming rabbit?

Looks good to me and evidently there may be some validity to your comments based on what was posted by willis_mckenna.

Where I grew up we do eat animals. Deer, rabbits, cows, pigs, chickens, squirrels, phesant, quail, and many others. We need to stop being against hunting, and remember we are omivores. Oh yes when a hamburger is made it came from a cow.

I live in metro New Orleans and I do not believe that anyone is cooking nutria in the restaurants. It was a novelty that was a big flop.
Our police SWAT team was making nightly shoots on the canals and the dead nutria were taken to the Audubon zoo for the alligators to eat. Since Katrina I have not seen a SWAT raid but one is surely needed. The nutria are now grazing on the canal banks with the ducks. Soon they'll be in our yards.
If you think a nutria is cute, look at its long rat tail and you'll change your mind. However, there are people who come to our local park especially to feed the nutria.
Trappers sold the furs to Canada and beautiful coats were made from them. Someone even gave the local Sheriff a nutria jacket.
The beaver is a much nicer animal than the nutria and I would trade any day. We have lost miles of coastline thanks to the nutria (and the oil industry but that is another story). The nutria eat constantly of vegetation and tree roots. I saw one as big as a hog today. Nasty critters!

It is a shame that Nutria flopped in restaurants.

"destroying and cremating millions" this was an overstatement. It worked for emphasis. The only legal method of euthanasia is with sodium pentabarbitol, only manufactured by Siegfried Ltd. (I guess free enterprise is illegal.) There are different forms and different brand names, but only one source. The pets, nutria and CWD deer carcasses then go to rendering companies which combined them with condemned and DENATURED animals. They are then sold as 'Meat and Bone Meal', or Lamb [predominant] Meal. Hurrican Katrina was good for the rendering plants. It is literally a dog eat dog world.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?sid=d51d8841ab0592f7310a149ae61afe86&c=ecfr&page=simple

Nutria meat is sold to mink farms, at least according to today's Nutria research.

Back to Guy's question, we have no deer problem here, and we live in a heavily wooded area. We did have 2 tonight that set off the alarm in our roadway.

The reason we have no deer problem is the huge influx lately of coyotes. And someone, no one is admitting to it, but someone is re- introducing wolves to the area. There have been quite a few sightings, and the Dept of Enviromental Cons denied wolves being here, until one was hit by a car about 1/4 mile from us. Of course they said that was someones pet. That's possible of course, but would not account for the number of sightings.

I'm not a hunter, so I can't say the specifics on this, but I understand the deer permits issued were down this past year, as the deer population is down.

Essentially we have no deer damage, whatsoever.

Polly

Here in Montana you can shoot up to 3 deer and there are at least 100+ that live within 1/2 mile of our house. They are especially a nuisance during the hunting season because the deer move into town and denude gardens. There no one can hunt them. Deer used to live in the mountains and now they live in the towns. I am not including expansion of towns into the mountains, but rather deer losing their fear of humans. We have the same problem here with Grizzley Bears in Glacier Park. No fear of humans= dangerous bears. My attempt is not to encourage killing but rather to discuss the change in habitat of White-tailed Deer.

Cats and dogs destroyed at the shelters annually-
http://www.rescueguide.com/unwanted.html
This was the first website that came up in a search. It is actually millions.

To the best of my knowledge, sodium pentobarbital is what is used to humanely destroy cats and dogs in this State. Please know that in some counties here in Illinois, the deer are being culled by sharp shooters for the DNR and the meat is going to food pantries. If Nutria was at one point in time showing up in restaurants down south, evidently they found a means by which to destroy them without resorting to sodium pentobarbital therefore they were a human consumptionable grade. Perhaps one of the 7 veterinarians who are members in these threads with us can comment because I see no reason to disbelieve the numbers of cats and dogs being destroyed annually that quite possibly could be used for human consumption. I've eaten dog in the Philippines and cat in Japan. I didn't know it until after I had eaten it but if I was starving I'd eat it and to the best of my knowledge, people are really starving out there.

I would be a proponent of reintroducing wolves in my area to help control the decimation of vegetation by deer.

There are skunks that live next door under the house. They kept digging up my Aspidistras and digging holes to the roots of some of my shrubs. As I live downtown these skunks have run into a few unsuspecting Korean students and drunk bar people. They waddle around with no fear and sprayed my dog atleast once. Good thing they don't come out during the day. They have made a few holes under the fence that I've blocked with bricks but they are persistant creatures. Pepe le pew!

Nature at our doorstep.... be careful what you hope for. Here in Toronto there are many areas where it is advised that you keep your cats inside... The local cayote population has a taste for them. Robb

Skunks are kind of cute. I never see them during the day around here at all but I do see them a lot at night. They trigger motion lights and I can see them walking across my back yard without a care in the world. I leave them be and we let our dogs out in the front yard so I suspect they feel the back yard is their haven. My husband got skunked once. He was not a happy camper. Pepe le pew is correct! Your mention of skunks nailing bar people is pretty funny.

Ummm, most the people here only have house cats that never see the light of day other than to go to the vet. The coyotes have been eating strays and ferals for a while. If the coyotes don't get them, cars turn them into postage stamp thicknesses on the road or worse. All of my cats are indoors only where they are safe.

The numbers are accurate. I see in one small shelter in Alaska, The Sodium Pentobarb euthanasia to be about 300 a year in a population of under 2000 people. No one cared to provide for any of these wonderful unwanted pets who only wanted a home. The cause is people who want to have "babies" with their cat, dog, etc and no one to care for them after the birth. Then the greatest numbers are from people who don't want to Spay and Neuter their animal cause it would cost the amount of a carton of cigarettes, or a night spent in a bar drinking beer. Almost all these end up in shelters and less than 10% get adopted. Some areas more.,
There are many areas where there are so many animals to be eliminated that they use unspeakable ways to mass eliminate the problems in their cities.

Here's something I've wondered. Would their not be a way to bait deer with corn or some other goodies with a drug that would cause them to abort their fetuses? In urban areas where hunters are few and hunting dangerous, would this not be an easy, cheap, effective means of reducing herd numbers?

Scott

Lots of people around here are running scared of CWD. They don't want the deer congregating so feeding them is against the law and carries a $1,000 fine. I don't know anything about deer birth control but you'd think there'd have to be something out there that might do as you suggested. These multiple births are really increasing in frequency.

Scott:

That could be done, but the hooved-rat-huggers would be all over you like flies on PawPaw flowers. What would Mrs. Suburban animal lover do when she found an aborted fawn in her marigolds??? The local DuPage Forest Preserve and even the Morton Arboretum have the right idea---bait them, sharpshoot them, clean them out by the hundreds. Remember, normal is 7 to 10 deer per FORESTED square mile. Most suburban areas around here are well over 100, and increasing.

Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) is called Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease in humans. It starts when someone is in their fifties, like Alzheimers. 90% are dead in one year.
Big Brother claims we do not have Mad Cow or "variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease". vCWD can start as early as 19. Other than the onset the diseases are the same. Road kill goes into animal food. Allegedly feed containing deer can no longer be fed to cows. Prions are misshaped proteins that can replicate. Prion diseases were mostly in cannibals. If you ate beef from the cow fed "Meat and Bone Meal" that contained Jimmy Hoffa...

www.cjdfoundation.org/

So you can't even eat your venison because it has mad cow disease . . . that's going to make the bottom drop out of the venison market, which will mean that fewer deer will get shot, which will mean . . .








Groan!

CWD is a concern for the ones who harvest the deer and is a problem when Brain and spinal cord are exposed. We have been tracking CWD here in Montana in slected harvested deer and elk. As of now none have been reported. The concern is found in herds that are kept comercially for hunting in Montana. Several have tested positive for CWD. They now are all isolated and the state is trying to kill all of them. I find it horrible, because my house is surrounded by these same Elk and none of them have tested positive for CWD. I love them as my friends.
You know how PMS got its name? Mad Cow Disease was already taken. LOL

Ha ha ha ha, Mad Cow disease was taken! Baaaaaaaaad sofer!

Perhaps you might also expand a little on the connection... or lack of a connection between CWD and Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease before there is a panic.

Ever read the ingredients on hot dogs? Mechanical turkey is produced under very high pressure and includes tissue, such as the spinal cord, which would be lost by manual seperation.

I knew there was a reason why I hated hotdogs.

CWD is a viral encephalitis (brain infection) that is slow to show its symptoms in infected animals. It is also very difficult to diagnose due to the brain holding the viral particles. It is tested by brain specimens being sent to the labratory for diagnosis. It is suspected to be transmitted from animal to animal at a low morbitity (infection rate). Few animals in the wild population are supplemented with meat by products in grain mixes which are thought to cause the tranmission of virus.
BSE is a viral infection of the same type that is contracted by our most common meat source. Cattle. This virus is very rarely transmitted to humans and a few cases are recorded. It is a devastating disease and is often a news worthy item. Therefore the news media enjoy the fear they spread by covering such diseases. After all what else do they need to talk about for 24 hours 7 days a week on over 15 TV/Sattelite stations. I work outside the meat inspection business but I feel completly confident in the process of inspection of our meat supply. Yes you are at risk and the odds are about one vs every sand pebble on the beach being touched by snow leopard from the Himmalyas.
Oh have you heard about Monkey B virus, a cold monkeys get that is 100% fatal to humans, or more currently bird flu virus that has infected SE Asians and Chinese. Note that this virus is contracted butchering fowl that currently have been infected, (how many birds do you buy live from the market place?) Or how about Elphantaisis that infests humans in the many thousands disfiguring them for life. (only in poor african areas)...................
We all are going to die from something. So get used to it.

CWD, BSE, CJD--not a virus, but a prion, as mentioned above.They haven't linked the consumption of CWD-infected deer to human CJD, but there are certainly suspicious links. A prion is a very nasty beastie, being resistant to all attempts to kill them. The farm where they first studied CWD in elk and deer could not be cleaned up. All new animals entering would get CWD despite efforts to clean the place up. So, they abandoned it for a couple years, removed several feet of soil, steamed, disinfected, etc., and the first group of animals that entered the place got the disease. Unfortunately, it is not making its way through the deer population quick enough to control the explosive numbers. Mother Nature often steps in at this point to take care of that issue. There are plenty of interesting diseases that could do the trick, and some infect humans as well, which would no doubt turn the bambi-huggers into bambi-killers in an instant.

CWD is CJD. Hogs are never affected at least prior to market age.
Scrapies is Mad Cow is vCJD.
CWD comes from eating pork that has been fed CWD deer.
vCJD comes from eating cows angry that they had been fed Scrapies.
In Scotland there was an atempt to vaccinate sheep. Formaldehyde would have kiled a virus, but it doesn't affect the very durable prions. They infected all of the sheep. British that have been vegetarians for more than a decade have developed vCJD. In the US a person given Human Growth Hormone 34 years earlier developed CJD.
A prion is a perfectly normal protein with an abnormal shape, that can replicate itself. Anything that would kill a prion would also kill the brain and spinal cord.

Your knowledge is beyond mine. I only get updates on the CWD through the state of Montana. But I have not known of any transplant of elk in the 3 herds of euthanized elk. They were euthanized and buried at the site. Then dug up and incinerated I think at a state facility. I am not in the know other than what I hear from the state and the neighbor that has tested negative with every dead elk on his farm. We lost 2 old elk last year, one named April that was a cow and she was at least 11years old, the other ancient was a bull who was over 17 years old.
Where is the description of a Prion? I would like to update my knowledge on this creature. Is it a RNA or DNA replicator?