Help with tree needed

Last year I purchased from a local nursery a gold leafed maple tree. They brought it out and planted it. It was beautiful and perfectly shaped. This spring it formed buds and the whole tree has begun to leaf out except for one branch. It is the lowest big branch on one side. It looks like it had buds but for some reason they won't open. I scratched the bark on that branch with my nail and it is green so I don't think it's dead yet but something is wrong.

Can anyone give me a suggestion on what to do to save this branch before it croaks? Can I beat it with a rolled up newspaper or something to scare it into opening? I seem to remember a man doing that with a dying plum tree years ago and while I thought it was tree abuse.......it worked and that tree came back more beautiful than ever.

Thanks for any tips on what to do or what may be wrong.

Brenda

No, don't beat it. That crude strategy originated with people wounding fruit trees to make them "think" they were dying and set heavy "last gasp of life" fruit crops. It's in the same league with the doctors who used to cure all ailments by using leeches to suck out bad blood, and puritans who burned witches at stakes.

Do three things to help us try to help you. First, look VERY closely at the bark all along the affected branch for signs of necrosis (dead places), a girdling injury, or scale insects. Second, tell us the name on the tag so we know what maple you're talking about. Finally, if you can, post a photo or two.

Guy S.

Hi. Thanks Guy for helping me. I looked at the branch that doesn't want to leaf out and I can't see anything bothering it. I took some pictures and have them stored at these links on my website. The name on the receipt I got from the nursery just says gold maple. I paid $225 for it plus the cost of having it delivered and planted last year so I really want this tree to do well. It is under guarantee but I think that is only good if the whole thing dies not just a branch. Not sure on that though. I hope these pictures give you a clue to help me identify the problem.

http://brendas-garden.4mg.com/goldmapl1.jpg


http://brendas-garden.4mg.com/goldmapl3.jpg


http://brendas-garden.4mg.com/goldmapl4.jpg


http://brendas-garden.4mg.com/goldmaple2.jpg

Jerry Baker used to say to go out and beat on your trees to get the sap going. Is that what you're thinking?

Terry

I guess Dave's Garden resizes the pictures for you since they are huge!! If you want to see the bigger closeups then copy and paste the links into your browser outside this website. The closeups might give you a better idea of what the problem is.

Thanks.

Brenda

Yes, it was a Jerry Baker home remedy. My girlfriend's husband was an avid follower of Jerry Baker. They had a Thundercloud Purple Plum tree that was almost all dead. He gave it some tonic and beat the crap out of it with a rolled up newspaper. I thought he had lost his mind totally but you know what? That tree came back and was more beautiful than ever. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. I forget what the tonic was that he gave it but Jerry Baker uses lots of funny stuff stuff mixed together.

Purple plums deserve to be beaten, fatally! Apparently so does Jerry Baker, for peddling such nonsense. Are you sure your girlfriend's husband (no, I won't even ask about that relationship!) wasn't following Tami Faye?

I'm having trouble getting into your pics -- maybe someone else can view them and offer an idea.

Guy S.

Let me see if I can upload them here then.

#2

Oh, no!
It's a Norway maple! The scourge of the Earth . . .
I was hoping it was one of the nicer yellow-colored Asian maples. Sorry, but IMHO your best scenario would be that the whole thing will die before the warrantee expires so you can get a refund to spend on a different tree. But in more direct response to your question, it might be Verticillium. Google that and see if it helps.

Guy S.

Thanks Guy. I remember now the variety is Princeton Gold Norway Maple. I'll talk to the nurseryman and see what he'll do about it if anything. Other than that I guess I'll just try to doctor it along a bit and see if it's condition turns around. I did read up a bit on Verticillium and some mention fertilizing with ammonium sulfate and keeping the tree watered well. If you can think of anything else I can try let me know.

I really do need shade on that side of the house as the afternoon sun is so hot I can hardly stand to be at the kitchen sink without sunglasses on. :) It really was a pretty tree too. Darnit.

If it goes to tree-heaven (well, maybe tree-hell for this species) don't plant another verticillium-sensitive tree in that area because it may become infected from the soil. Some really nice trees, including most maples, redbuds, smoke trees, and many others are on the "don't plant" list in this case. You probably could Google Verticillium to find a list of resistant trees.

Guy S.

Guy, just out of curiousity.........what is your favorite tree and why?

Thanks for all your help.

Brenda

Here is a list. Which tree would you pick to act as a shade barrier on the south side of the house? It should not get taller than 30 feet and be at home close to the house since I have a fence not too far from where the tree will be planted.

Trees and shrubs resistant or immune to Verticillium
Apple
Hawthorn
Oak, white and bur
Arborvitae
Hickory
Pear
Beech
Honeylocust
Pine
Birch
Hophornbeam
Poplar
Butternut
Juniper
Serviceberry*
Dogwood*
Larch
Spruce
Fir
Linden*
Sycamore
Ginkgo
Mountain ash
Walnut
Hackberry
Mulberry
Willow
*Some plant species are listed in both tables (linden, dogwood).
The resistance or susceptibility will depend on the cultivar and the strain of Verticillium present in the soils.

I want my shot at America's Master Quackster.
I get nauseated every time I hear the intro music for his radio program - and have to dash over to turn the channel over to "NASCAR Country" or something tolerable.

What was that old saying?
"A dog, Jerry Baker, a hickory tree, the more you beat 'em, the better they be."

Hey Loon,

Please steer clear of the willow (Salix babylonica) anywhere near your home. I presume you were referring to a weeping willow? Best to steer clear of any white mulberry (Morus alba) too but the red mulberry (Morus rubra) is a critter magnet which would make you a happy girl. The Mountain Ash (Sorbus aucuparia) might cause you some problems down the road as might a few of the others dependent upon the species you are interested in.

You could try planting some of the American Larch (Larix larcina), Spruce (Picea mariana or Picea glauca), and Fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii) around your pond as that might be a nice location for them but again, steer clear of the willow near the pond. Very messy tree and it's a water hog.

On the south side of your home; I'd consider a Bur Oak (Quercus macrocarpa) but you really might want to take a close look at a Swamp Oak (Quercus bicolor) as it seems to do quite fine upland and that tree is magnificent, any of these Walnuts (Carya alba, C. ovata, C. lacinosa, C. glabra, C. ovalis, C. cordiformis), Hackberry (Celtis occidentalis), American Beech (Fagus grandifolia), or a Hophornbeam (Ostrya virginiana). Any combination of these might look very attractive. You might want to toss in some shrubs for added interest.

If you don't mind my asking, who gave you that list?

Guy's favorite tree is any Oak. Guy could fill you in on a host of oaks that would work well there but you might not want a Sawtooth Oak (Quercus acutissima).

I don't have a favorite per se but anything fruiting such as an Oak or a Hickory is up there for me. I do like American Yellowwood (Cladrastis kentukea) and Kentucky Coffeetree (Gymnocladus dioica) and Hophornbeam and and and and and....

Guy, I want to know why you call that tree "the scourge of the earth." I know what your favorite trees are--oaks.

The Norway Maple is an exotic invasive species and it's a major problem child here. We can't rip them out fast enough and they keep introducing one cultivar after the next.

I guess our Chinese Tallow and black willow fit into those categories in Louisiana. (not to mention kudzu vine.)

Well, I leave y'all alone for a few hours and you answer each others' questions without needing me at all. Makes me feel unnecessary!

But I have no favorite tree. Oaks are great (and the primary focus of our collection), but so is everything else, in the right place. And yes, there are many scourges -- I should have said Norway Maple is just one of them.

Guy S.

Well, rattle off some Oaks for Loon! Make yourself useful!

No, I'm way past my bed time as it is. Maybe tomorrow . . .

Guy S.

Thanks everyone for your input. The list of trees is something that popped up when I googled Verticillium resistant trees.

I want the tree to be on the small size. I need it for slight shade on the side of the house. It will be planted between the tree and the picket fence. Right on the other side of the fence is the driveway which I'm fixing to have poured in cement. I'd rather not have anything with problem roots that will push in my basement wall or buck up my fence or driveway. I need a small ornamental tree. Nothing that will get huge. I was wondering about the honeylocust. Do you all hate that one too?

Loon, the honeylocust is a nice tree. It is such a nice tree, however, that in some areas it was extensively over-planted as a street/urban tree and some pest problems have developed. However, especially if it is not particularly common in your area, it is a nice tree ... but I would still plant an oak instead. ;-)

Sorry about mentioning American Yellowwood and Kentucky Coffeetree as being personal favorites, Neither of those are Verticillium resistant to the best of my knowledge but the American Yellowwood might be somewhat resistant if it is healthy and not stressed in the least.

I like the Honeylocust however it has been my experience with all of them that the shade is a dapled shade at best and particularly so when the tree is young. There are some cultivars out there that are denser that you might like and this tree gets big. MaryMD7 addressed other issues with this species.

I don't think all oaks are Verticillium resistant. I just happen to know the Bur Oak is. Guy would be in a better position to offer suggestions on Oak and there are some that are not all that generously proportioned that would work for you and they aren't all slow growing contrary to popular belief.

The problem you may have is that there are several strains of Verticillium out there and I don't know if you know which one you have. Some of the plants in that list are resistant to some strains and some are resistant to others but quite a few are not resistant to all. Trees and shrubs are expensive. Given your space restraints, would you consider a Hawthorn or a Crabapple? There are many cultivars out there and there might be one or two that tickles your fancy. Hawthorns and Crabapples are pretty resistant to all strains of Verticillium. The other species that might make a nice foundation planting in that they are considerably smaller that are also allegedly equally resistant to all strains of Verticillium would be Ceanothus sanguineus, C. americanus, or C. herbaceus. These are actually very attractive and have wonderful blooms in spring.

I went to the nursery where I purchased the tree and they were very nice. I looked around and made a list of what they had to choose from for a replacement tree. Here are some of my choices.

Radiant Crabapple
Red Jewel Crabapple
Kwansen Cherry
Chanticleer Callery Pear
Sterling Silver Linden
Fagus Sylvartica Rohanii
Columnar Hornbeam Carpinus b. Fastigata

I think the Hornbeam and the Fagus will get too big for where I'm planting it. The Linden will get to be 45' high and 35' wide which is bigger than I wanted. I guess that leaves the crabs, cherry and pear. If you had to pick what would your choice be?

Thanks for all your help everyone. This means a lot to me to make a good choice this time as I really would like some shade before I die. :)

That's all they have? They ought to be nice -- pretty slim pickings.

Neither the hornbeam or the fagus are going to exceed the height you're looking for any time soon. That being said, I don't know that a fastigate tree is the best choice for shade and beeches generally get very big indeed in the very long run, although I don't know anything about that particular cultivar off-hand. I'd take a disease-resistent cultivar of malus over a cherry anyday and I wouldn't plant a callery pear at gun-point. Linden are loved by japanese beetles, but that wouldn't necessarily deter me from planting one.

The Chanticleer Pear that ding dong is offering you is a Calleryana Pear which is nothing but trouble. Granted, the integrity of the tree is better than the Bradford but who wants one of those up next to their home so it can possibly split and come crashing down in high winds 15 years from now. Aside from that, Callery Pears are icky because they are hideously invasive, right up there with Burning Bushes, Privet, and Japanese Honeysuckle.

The Columnar Hornbeam might not be best for your because of its shape but I sure do like Hornbeam.

You'd probably be happiest with one of the Crabapples and they'll provide you with a splashy spring display but the Fagus Sylvartica Rohanii would actually be my personal first choice.

Dido to your choice Equalizer, but I think I might like the fastigate Hornbeam... me likes those skinny trees in tight spots (so does Soferguy :). However, that might not create enough shade, so perhaps the Beech (Fagus) would be a better choice. On the other hand, If you are going to consider a Crab tree, which could be a very satisfactory choice, look for disease resistant varieties. Many of the older varieties have scab problems and many will defoliate by the middle of summer into an unsightly mess, especially in a dry summer. This condition would effect the amount of shade the tree would provide. Also, IMO, many of the light pink flowering varieties look washed out in the landscape, where as the darker red and purple varieties seem to hold their color better. Something to consider...

I sure hope you all approve of the choice I made. I was thinking of you all when I went back to the nursery to look around. I walked and walked around trying to decide. I finally spotted a different tree towards the back. It was a columnar pin oak. I remember you all said you really like the oak. This one is nice and full and was tall enough to throw shade on my kitchen window which is what I really want. I hate having to wear sunglasses at the kitchen sink. :) If I remember right, he said it does not make acorns and the leaves don't get as big as other oaks and it keeps an upright habit and is slower growing. The gave me credit for the gold maple that is sick and they'll dig it up and take it away when they deliver the columnar pin oak. I think I'll have them dig a new hole for this tree. That old hole is tainted I think. :) I think this choice won't have as many disease and insect problems as the crabs will. I hope not anyway.

When I got home I drove the RTV around and checked on most of the 100+ trees and bushes I planted a few weeks ago. Other than a few the animals carried away totally, the rest are sprouting leaves and looking healthy. I'm so happy. The red oaks will be so fine someday as will the white oaks and white cedar etc. This is so much fun. I spotted a Bloodgood London Plane tree. I plan on getting that and planting it down by the pond when things dry out more down there. Any opinions on that tree? I thought it would be a nice specimen tree and provide some shade down there. It's expensive so I want to make sure you all approve of it before I buy it. The pin oak was $375. I hope it does well here.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Ohhhh Patrick.... I love those "light pink flowering varieties" that "look washed out in the landscape". Pink is one of my favorite colors right up there with forest and sage green.

Wonderful choice Loon! I think you'll enjoy the Quercus palustris. You lucked out with your selection because Pin Oak is actually resistant to Verticillium (the degree of resistance is arguable) and the Pin Oak is also resistant to many pests. Way to go! Now, whatcha gonna plant under it?

Ummm, about the Pin Oak not fruiting??? It will fruit but not any time soon. Give it a few decades or more. It has cute little acorns that are highly beneficial to wildlife.

The Bloodgood London planetree (Platanus x acerifolia 'Bloodgood')... I don't have one. The parentage is P. orientalis as well as occidentalis which doesn't exactly thrill me to all get out. It's a nice looking tree however the straight species occidentalis is more attractive in my humble opinion.

Thanks so much Equil for approving my selection. I will be able to sleep tonight now. :)

I wasn't planning on planting anything under it. I have those cement pavers that make a circle around the tree and then I just mulch inside of it. :) It makes it easier to mow the grass around the tree. The house is on one side of the tree and my picket fence and drive is on the other side of the tree spot. I'm happy that it's big enough to give some seriously needed shade right away I think. I'll take a picture and post it once it's in the ground. Let's see..........in 30 years I'll be 85 so I won't care if there are little acorns or not. Ha!!

This was such a hard decision to make. Thanks so much everyone for helping me decide.

Hey Loon! No problem! Anytime! Glad you're sleeping guilt free knowing you'll have a nice oak to stand guard over your home for the next hundred years or so.

I've been meaning to ask you if you ever found that book on Lakescaping for Wildlife and Water Quality on eBay or if you wanted me to loan you my copy? It really is the best publication out there of its kind. Say, how are DH's perch and minnows? Don't you just love the way those minnows school and shimmer in the sunlight when they swim close to the surface of the water? Watching them is like watching the fish in the tank at the dentist's office. You get lost in your thoughts. So peaceful. Natural tranquilizers.

I still haven't got the book yet. I'll have to search around some more. The pond is coming along. The pond guy has ordered me a windmill aereator and when it comes in he'll install it for me. I'm trying to transition the perch to eating pellets instead of minnows. I didn't realize how expensive it was going to be to feed those fish. :) I spent $40 twice on minnows and $40 on pellets. The pellets last longer I think. From what I've observed the minnows hang out on the shallow end of the pond. I guess they're safer there. It is still muddy over there. I need to get my boots on and go check on them. I went down there this evening and pitched out some floater pellets. I saw activity where the fish were coming up to check it out. I then pitched out some sinkers for them to eat. I can't tell if they're eating them or not but I hope they are. The pond guy said if they don't eat the pellets and then go to the bottom of the pond they will rot and put out methane gas that will kill all the fish. YIKES. I don't want that to happen. We added some yeast to the pond so it will grow some algae since the fish eat that I guess. So much to learn. I have a nice pond man though and am learning a lot. He's going to bring me out some pumpkinseed fish and a few bass. He knows all about balancing the ecology of the pond. I guess that Perch Farm in Standish is the only one of it's kind in Michigan and they supply fish to lots of pond projects. It is heavily regulated by the DNR. It's quite an operation. That reminds me. He owes me some minnows. I paid for them but he couldn't get enough up to give me and I was supposed to go back for more and he's throwing in an extra half gallon of them for my trouble. I thought that was nice. Anyway, I think in time the pond will be able to take care of itself. I sure hope so anyway. Ha!!

A columnar pin oak? Uh-uh. Check the label for the Latin name, because I doubt that's what you're getting.

Perhaps it's a columnar English oak, or one of its hybrid cultivars like Crimson Spire or Regal Prince. (If you have neutral or alkaline soil, that's a lucky break for you because pin oak will not thrive under those conditions.)

Or perhaps it's a "regular" pin oak, which is not columnar and is not slow growing and is very susceptible to gouty galls, oak wilt, and bacterial leaf scorch -- all fatal. Or perhaps it's something totally different. And all oak cultivars make acorns, except for one that I'm just now introducing called 'Champion' that your nursery won't have yet.

Read the botanical name on the label and come back and tell us what they're really trying to sell you. Do it before they make the delivery!

Guy S.

Someone said Linden Tree. Oh, how I would love to be able to grow a linden tree in Louisiana. I have a friend in Santiago, Chile who has the most gorgeous linden trees at the entrance to his property. Anyone have a linden on this forum?

Coleen

I have a native Linden that I transplanted from our woods to our side yard a few years back...Tilia americana. I would estimate it to be about 20-25 foot tall now. There aren't many of them in our woods.

Guy was right. I went back to the nursery this morning and it is a columnar English oak. It will be very large someday and really is too big for the area it is to be planted in. There probably isn't 15 feet between the house and the fence and drive so I really need a small tree there. Something that will shade the house some by the kitchen window. I wound up canceling my order for the oak and bought a crab instead. I know they are prone to a lot of problems but I'll spray it when I spray all my fruit trees. I have to be able to get around this tree planting to mow the grass so I can't have a tree that will be huge. Not to mention I can't have huge tree roots pushing in the basement foundation. We had that happen at our last home before we lived there. A neighbor's elm tree's roots pushed in the wall of our basement and the previous owners had to have a whole new basement wall built along with a new driveway. They were not happy and talked them into cutting the tree down to keep peace. :)

If this tree doesn't work out, I'll chip it into mulch and buy some awnings instead. :)

I'm thinking you might want to expand your horizons and locate another nursery for future purchases. Isn't this the same nursery that sold you the original tree infected with Verticillium that has now permeated and infected your soil and limited your choices of trees in that area? And how the heck did a Pin Oak turn into a Columnar English Oak? Does this man not believe in using Latin names for plants? Sure would solve a lot of problems.

Poor Loon. Loon is really going to be loonier than a loon when she's done dealing with this nursery... and all of us.