Straw Bale Gardening - Part 3 - the saga continues

Melissa: got the heirlooms planted this morning; looking forward to the results


For those new to this thread, feel free to put your location ON THE MAP with the link below:

http://www.frappr.com/strawbalegardeners

This message was edited May 4, 2006 3:27 PM

Thanks, Strawman, for starting a new thread.

I was wondering, is anyone else growing lots of mushrooms on their bales? I had several small areas of mushrooms growing on the bales while I was prepping the bales and the bales were hot and composting. I planted my seedlings a week or so ago, and most of them are doing well. The first row has Early Girl tomatoes, summer squash and cantelopes. The second row has Better Boy tomatoes and green bell peppers. The third row has nothing planted in them yet.

I am finding several small pockets of shrooms again, 4 or 5 small shrooms in each small group, particularly in the first row. Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

I've had mushrooms growing out of mine as well. I would imagine it is a good thing!

Oh yes Kent you are going to love that Liquid Fence. Just make sure you have long sleeves on and are up wind from the drift. Every time I use it I have to take 2 showers my son has such a sensitive nose.

hmstyl: 10-4 on the mushrooms; common occurrence; I picked some off this morning

alyrics: I've got my wife doing the initial spraying of the Liquid Fence tonight. LOL She'll thank me for it later, I'm sure.

Kent, I think you'll be congratulating yourself that you got her to do it! There is a similarly foul product that works like a charm called Repell-Ex, made of pig blood and latex. The latex makes it stick to your skin unless you're a plant in which case it sticks to your leaves. But if I can offer a tip - do follow the timing instructions. Repell-Ex is to be re-applied every 6 weeks and invariably, on Week 7, the deer return if I haven't gotten around to it. But otherwise I have to say that those products really do work well for me.

Calling all Zone 5 gardeners...

I was feeling bad because my bales aren't planted, but then I realized that everyone posting is in Zone 6 or above. How are the Zone 4 and 5 gardeners doing? Or maybe I should ask What are you doing? Has anyone been able to plant out, are your bales cooking? I have Cucurbits with 3 sets of leaves that I winter sowed - I was going to put them in a container since my bales aren't ready.

jnette, The tomatoes are going to go up and over the top. So we can pick them like Kent is doing. My husband loves to create and design all kinds of things. He really likes PVC and rebar. The wire is cattle fence with large openings.

Today we received our shade cloth that we ordered. We will make like a tent structure and have the bird netting coming off of that. It is looking like a picture perfect garden more and more every day.

The tomatoes are better than twice the size they were when I planted them.

It will get more and more exciting as each and every one of us gets the bales planted. We got some flowers planted in some of the bales and now I will give up one more bale for herbs. The local herb fair is Sat. and since it is my B-day hubbie said I can get any herbs that I want.

Kent, how did they fare on their trip?

We planted into our bales last Saturday and watered extra-well, Sunday there were little mushroom heads popping up all over! Yes, this is a good thing: it means the rotting is going well, within.

The plants are happy in these bales, and growing strong.

Melinda, it's a delight to see your hooped garden, dancing along a few weeks ahead from your earlier planting season.

Melinda, you mean you are putting the cattle panels on the pvc? Isn't it pretty heavy for that? How are you fastening it to the pvc? What is the distance between the bottom pvcs where they meet the ground?

I made a hoophouse out of the cattle panels and covered them with visquaine. The "feet" are 8 feet apart on the ground. What kind of tomatoes are you planting that will grow up that high?

Alyrics, you don't say what your zone is. I am zone 5. I am on the 7th day of my bales and believe it or not, on the 6th day when I went into my hoophouse where the bales are, the smell had changed. It had been smelling of hay and now it smelled like rotting straw. Like in a cow barn only without the manure.

I have my tomatoes ready to plant as soon as my bales are ready. I started them in the house from seeds.

Jnette, He likes to use rebar in the ground. It is 4ft. and I hammer it in about halfway and then put the pvc over it and bend over to another one. The fencing is not that heavy. We use wire that is for the electric fence it is soft enough to work with. The tomatoes last year in the ground came over the top of my 5ft tomato cages and fell back to the ground so I feel very confident they will grow over the archway.

We have Celebrity, Better Boy and lots more.

Ruth: Your comment about the plants being "happy" in the bales brought a chuckle. It reminded me of watching Bob Ross paint on Public TV and how he always used similar phrases about "happy little trees, bushes, etc."

Melinda: heirlooms are doing OK to fair so far; I'm optimistic they'll regain a firm footing.

All: here's a link to a pretty good gardening periodical called The Practical Gardener.

They ran a story about my bale garden in the Sept-Oct 05 issue (front cover) and just re-ran the entire story again. They ran completely out of back issues in 05 and, according to the editor, it "has been their most popular story, ever".

So, don't hesitate to call your local paper, etc. and tell them about your venture. There's alot of folks out there who don't follow DG, who'd love to know about bale gardening, even if they have to wait until next year.

www.thepracticalgardener.com

I haven't decided if I amgoing to use stout string or wire for my trellis. I wanted toget it done yesterday but I was down with a migraine.I still have it today though not nearly as bad. Praise the Lord! I didn't know about pinching them to one runner. Will that keep it all going in one direction? I have never grown them on a trellis before. Any tips will be greatly appreciated.

I have to fix a mistake I made with my pepper plants. I didn't plant them deep enough in the bale and the roots are showing. I am going to pack around them with some potting soil.

I am really looking forward to the plant swap tomorrow at the extension office. I will have to get a couple more bales for the new plants I get. I will try to get all the yellow varieties they have. The lower acidity is easier on my ulcers.

Hmstyl, Yes I have shrooms on some of my bales, too. Just means everything is rotting nicely.

Alyrics, I haven't put my plants out either...I'm in zone 6a, but the last frost date around here is Mother's Day. Plus my baby plants were somewhat slow to grow, so they probably won't be put out for another couple of weeks.

Older bales (3 weeks) are up to 110F, newer ones 94F, newest ones 88F (air temperature = 75F). I took one of my elderly neighbors round today to see the garden...she was quite interested and is looking forward to seeing what my plants do! (I'm better than television for my retired neighbors. :) )

pam

Jnette, I'm 5a. I just started my bales cooking tonight. I went to an ag store and they were shocked that I asked for N nitrate - they sort of breathed out in a whisper... Thats illegal. I said maybe in Ohio but elsewhere it's available. Anyway I guess its illegal to transport it in OH without a license. Ok so what else do you have. Ended up with the Ammonium Sulfate which is 27-0-0. Melts like ice in the sun when you water it in. My bales have been sitting out for a month and the wheat straw had already started to sprout. Am I repeating what the Zone 6 and 7-ers already told us in Parts I and II of As the Straw Turns? Anyway we are excited about this. I've been gathering cardboard and I'm going to lay cardboard down over the whole area and then pin landscape cloth over it so that we don't have to fight field weeds. My bale garden is several miles from my house and I'm going to try something to preserve moisture in the bales on the chance that I don't make it there everyday. - encase the bottom 1" or so of the bale in black plastic to form a saucer of sorts. I'll be reporting back on how this is going.

With regards to moisture, I wonder if a little of that polymer moisture crystal stuff stuck into the planting hole would help... you might have to mix it with a little potting soil or dirt to get it to stay put, although as long as it didn't escape from the bale (don't know just how loose the bales are), it should be fine. Check out www.watersorb.org (I think) for more info and great prices (I ordered another 10 pounds of it this year... a little goes a long way, so even with my "use it with everything" approach, that should last me several years).

I also wonder.... has anyone tried encasing the sides of the bales in plastic to slow evaporative water loss (not the bottom, just the sides)? If you have a row of bales pushed together as in the pics many of you have posted, a plastic wrap along the row should be pretty easy to do.

I haven't taken the leap yet... but I am fascinated by these threads!

Jill, I'd think that a plastic wrap around the sides would be a good idea as long as it wasn't black which would heat up the bales too much when they are planted.

I too, am anxious to have a home again and try this!

Someone asked earlier, I believe it was in Part 2, if potatoes could be planted in these bales. Well, I had several potato plants come up (from last year) next to where I set my bales. I mulched them with hay and one of these plants has attached itself to the side of one of the bales, actually rooted in the bale. It has sent roots into the middle of the bale and is now growing out the top. See pic.

So, to make a long story short, I think it would be possible if the seed potato is set in very deep into the bale. Or perhaps into the side of the bale? Hhmmm.....no end to the possibilitys?!

Oh yeah, what's up with the fungi. Some of those things are bigger than my seedlings. Should I just pick them all off? There are so many, and I just noticed them today.

All: Below is an interesting article I found and it's link about bale gardening

Watch for these debating points from statements the author made:

1. Fertilizer requirements if only using compost
2. Wheat straw -vs- Hay
3. Types of plants not suitable such as carrots & potatoes (Big Red's our man, here)

Gardening From Alaska

Straw bale gardening by Jeff Lowenfels

Jeff is the Past President of the Garden Writers of America, a columnist with the Anchorage Daily News, Host Alaska Gardens and Supporter of Plant a Row.

April 11, 2004

Last month I worked a display garden at the Northwest Flower and Garden Show in Seattle. I met many readers attending the show and having so much fun that I am convinced all of us should consider a trip down to Seattle next February to attend this annual event. It is the best weekend getaway you can take to brighten up an always-bleak Alaskan February.

Anyhow, weeks before the show began, our particular garden’s designer, Rosemarie Nichols of Nichols Nursery in Albany, Oregon, got a hold of half a dozen, wheat straw bales and made gardens out of them.

First, the bales were placed on their sides so that the straw ran perpendicular to the ground. Then they were wet down and soaked with water often for ten days or so until they were thoroughly wet.

Next four to six inches of really good compost was placed on top of each bale. Finally, lettuces, Swiss chard and other leafy crops were planted right in the compost. Voila! Instant gardens in raised beds.

By the time the bales were laid end to end in front of the Garden Writers Association’s “Plant A Row for the Hungry” garden at the Seattle show, the seeds had sprouted in the compost.

The result was a very functional garden wall that turned out to be, literally, the showstopper. People lined up six and more deep to study what had been done and to ask questions. It became immediately apparent similar straw bale gardens were going to crop up all over the Northwest as a result of people seeing these.

Since you didn’t, let me tell you that trying a straw bale garden is worthy of pursuit here in Southcentral.

Using a straw bale(s), enables you to put a garden anywhere you have sun. There is no digging; you could put one in the middle of your driveway for that matter. Just remember, put the bale where you want it before you soak it down. Once wet a bale of straw is extremely heavy and very difficult to move around.

To start, get as weed-free straw as you can. Wheat straw has been suggested as a relatively seed-free straw. In any case, do not use hay. Hay has seeds in it. Straw, not hay: this is a key point. You local feed store will help locate good straw.

Next, you should use the very best compost you can. Better yet, use humus as it has better microbiology which is what makes the system work: Wetting the straw wakes up the protozoan populations that reside in the straw, in particular paramecium, those single celled animals you diagramed for some unknown reason in High School biology. These go up into the humus layer and eat bacteria.

The resultant waste, released right in the plants’ root zone, is full of nitrogen and other nutritional goodies that are taken up by the plant. There is no fertilizing needed.

A second reason why you want the best microbiology is the soil particle holding capacity of the microbes. Secretions from the bacteria in the humus and fungal hyphae are what hold the compost together on top of the straw. Potting soil will not do; use humus or compost.

You can plant almost any leafy vegetable crop in the humus/compost layer. I don’t advise root crops like carrots or potatoes, at least the first year as they will not develop properly. You can grow flowers as well. You can even plant starts and, not to get carried away with things, mushroom spawn in the sides of the bales.

Each bale should last at least two years. During this time it will naturally compost. The end result of a straw bale garden is wonderful, composted mulch for your gardens and flowerbeds.

Here in Alaska straw bale systems will provide a warmer growing environment than the conventional soil bed. First, the straw itself composts thus generating heat. And since a bale is raised above the ground, the sun has a better opportunity to warm up roots, which grow into the straw. The hollow reeds will hold in heat at night.

And finally, you won’t have to bend much when you garden in a straw bale garden. You will never have to really weed one either.

As it turned out, our Plant a Row Display Garden not only won a gold medal from the show’s judges, it was voted the best garden in the show by those attending, the highest honor or all.

I would like to think that this vote had to do with the message to plant one row in your garden to feed the hungry—a message that started here in Anchorage, went national and so far has provided over 26 million meals. However, I know the straw bale garden had a lot to do with the win.

So, my suggestion this week is that you clip this column and hang on to it so you will remember both ideas later this spring: Plant a Row to Feed The Hungry and try a straw bale garden.

http://www.icangarden.com/document.cfm?task=viewdetail&itemid=4945&categoryid=260


Last Point: I think it's a great idea to set up a display at a State or County Fair.

I don't have the shrooms yet, but the smell is wonderful. Just like a barn. LOL My DH thinks it stinks and I told him I would love to bottle it. However, here is a problem I have not heard any of you mention. I wear sweat shirts with sleeves cut off at the elbow, for comfort. Just in the last 3 or 4 days my arms below my elbows are swelling and have a bright red rash. Actually, it looks more like a burn than a rash. I wasn't sure it had anything to do with the strawbales etc. until I went out this afternoon and put on the tomato fertilizer, day 10, and watered it in good and came up to the house and the swelling and redness was twice as bad.

Now, I am not one to have these kinds of problems. No problems with pollens etc. Anybody have any suggestions? BTW, I could not get the Ammonium Nitrate either and ended up with 21-0-0. and now tomato fert. Thanks for giving it a thought. Jeanette

You were writing your post as I did mine above Kent. That is pretty cool. My daughter went to that show and I remember her telling me about it at the time. Pretty neat. Jeanette

I mucked out my fish pond today. Can I use straight fish muck on the bales?

Great article! Thanks! I especially liked the suggestion about laying the bales on their sides so the straw runs up & down -- makes sense, and I couldn't remember reading that anywhere on these threads before, or maybe I just missed it.

Jeanette: Hmm, not sure what's going on with the rash, but my first thought was how my arms got when I transplanted into my bales with short sleeves on.

The inside of my forearms were chaffed pretty good from pulling the bales apart and holding them with one hand while dropping the plants down with the other. The straw just did a number on my arms.

But yours sounds like a reaction to something or even a chemical burn.

Did you come in contact with the wet bales while watering in the 21-0-0? Or get some residue on you that reacted with sweat/moisture on your arms?

Jeanette - It sounds like a reaction to the sun. I get that spring/early summer. It could be photoallergic or photosensitivity. The former is a skin reaction is triggered by the effect of sunlight on a chemical that has been applied to the skin and the latter a reaction to exposure to the sun - in this case when you are not acclimated to exposure because of winter. I wear a long sleeve cotton t-shirt the beginning of the season. I moved to MD from FL and this happened the first year I moved. I had no idea what it was but because in FL short sleeves are all year round after my first winter here I had terrible itchy rashes.

Hope it clears up soon whatever it is!! Aloe and NO scratching :-)
-Kim

Jnette, are you using Ammonium Sulfate? If so I believe the packaging says to avoid letting it touch your skin. I'd say wash your skin gently with a non-antibacterial soap and keep it covered, dry and clean. The aloe may help or you may want to try some over the counter cortisone cream.

I've been reading this thread almost every day for what seems like months so what did I do? Assume I knew the recipe for starting bales and went off and put N Sulfate on the bales the first day. Then I went back and looked it up on the first thread - oops! Not only that but I put a good heaping cupful on. Oh well, the wheat sprouts croaked on that overdose of N. We watered very heavily today - till the ground was soggy. Some of those bales are cooking already - I can smell it and the run-out water is brown.

What does it look like when you part the straw to plant in? Is it brown straw or is it actual soil-like material in there? I was fascinated with the article from Alaska and can't imagine that 6 inches of compost would stay put on top of a bale.

It won't be too much longer till we can plant. The kids want a watermelon, a pumpkin, cucumbers and a green zucchini. I can't seem to impress upon them that the name of the game is tomatoes. My husband who doesn't know how to connect a hose has gotten interested and came out with us today and watered some bales. Wish I had a camera for that photo. Kent, you're the one that hooked him with that photo of your police vehicle parked behind that giant row of tomatoes. He seems to think if a LEO is doing this, it must be legitimate. You have started a one-man revolution.

We sure are getting a lot of straw mushrooms, and yes, some of ours are as big as a few of our seedlings as well! I'm not sure what other folks are doing with theirs, and as I'm too timid to send a spore casting and sample off to the local mycologists to find out if they're an edible kind, I'm just snapping them off and then washing well.

Jeannette, that red rash sounds a lot more like a chemical burn than a straw-contact rash allergy. Make sure to wash off in cool water for 15 minutes; and seriously consider gloves as a barrier (and just plain being really careful to not come into physical contact with your fertilizer at all).
Another day, you might try handling the straw with no chemical on it, and seeing how you do--it is possible you might have an allergic reaction to either the straw, or the fungus in it. I hope it turns out to be just the fertilizer, which you can just as easily avoid!

I've heard of another person doing straw-bale in Oakland, and have no idea where he got the idea (his roomie, who I saw at the dance on Friday evening, and I got talking about gardens). Small world, great ideas!

Kent, that was a very interesting article. I was surprised about them standing the bales up on their sides and putting compost on top before planting. My bales would be far too wobbley on their sides, unless they were lined up side by side and propped up with stakes; but it does sound reasonable that the plants would grow down through the staw better if it was standing up perpendicular to the ground. Although, it would seem like the water would run straight through the bales that way.

I don't know anything about protozoan populations - but I have lots of shrooms!! :-)

hmstyl: I'm doing my bales on their sides for the 2nd year and they are as steadfast as the Rock of Gibraltar, and they are heavy with water.

But it's strictly a matter of preference; the 2 elderly folks in the original articles I found on bale gardening did their bales with the strings on the ground.

hmstyl, I think what they meant was that the bale is to lay long side on the ground, with the cut ends of the straw showing on the top side - thus perpendicular to the ground. This would mean that your twine is on the side of the bale, not touching the ground.

If you are using plastic twine it might not matter, but I would think that natural twine could rot out by the end of a season if your twine was touching the wet ground with all that fertilizer running thru it.

I think there must be a big difference in the length and width of our bales from one part of the country to another. I'll bet the sizes vary as much as the prices do!

Our bales are about 44" by 16" by 22"; we have them on the 44" x 16" sides, 22" tall, and that places the strings off the ground and the direction of the straw vertical (for easy watering and planting into). I'm thinking that's a standard size; and even though we paid probably the highest price for ours, by regional cost of living, it's still "cheaper than dirt" for what we'd have had to haul in to amend our mud, or create a different kind of raised bed.
We have ours placed with the 44" inch long sides adjoining, a pod of eight here, three there in nearly a square, and five along over here with the peppers and some tomatoes.

All: this is an article from The Post, a Cherokee County, Alabama, newspaper. Another view about bale gardening with a few of my comments scattered in the article.)

The link is at the bottom

April 4, 2005

Hay bale gardening becoming a big hit
By Kristin Latty

CENTRE — Looking for a simple way to do some country gardening? Why not grab up a wheat straw bale and go to town.

Er ... you know what we mean. Although, the popular method of hay bale gardening is getting more popular in town, as well.

"Bale gardening is no trouble at all, said Bobby Baker of Centre. "Plus I've had real good luck with my crops."

Baker has been gardening in hay for four years. A friend told him how to get prosperous crops using nothing but straw wheat, potting soil, a little fertilizer and some tomato plants.

"Every fall I get some bales and let them sit out all winter to get good and soggy," said Baker. "I plant a few every year and I've had real good luck. Of course, I do prune and stick them."

Like Baker, Jim Wright of Cedar Bluff started out his first straw wheat crop using only tomato plants.

"I started last year and did three bales with two plants each," said Wright. "I ended up with over 486 tomatoes."

Right now, Wright has winter cabbage in the bales and has 10 more soaking for future planting.

"It's easy because you don't have to have a tiller and tear the yard up," said Wright. Plus, he said, there's no back-breaking row-hoeing or weed-pulling.

"Some people don't have real good soil for planting crops," said Baker. "My neighbor's land has a tendency to stay real wet. He started hay gardening after he saw how well it worked for me."

Wright said Bob Davis, a long-time friend who was in the landscaping business, showed him how to use wheat straw to garden.

"Bob had all kinds of crops including cucumber, squash and green beans," said Wright. "You can raise almost anything except corn because it's too tall and the bale would fall over."

Both Baker and Wright agree that there is one thing that must be done when using wheat straw gardening: the bales must be kept wet. (NOW WHERE HAVE I HEARD THAT BEFORE? - Kent)

"If the bales aren't kept a little soggy, the crops don't do so well," said Wright. "I also use a little fertilizer about once a week."

"We haven't really gone through a summer drought that would effect the bales badly, but it is better to water them regularly," said Baker.

Straw wheat bales are available at several locations in Cherokee County, including the Cherokee Farmers Co-Op in Centre and J&M Hardware in Cedar Bluff.

"We do have a few people come in to buy the bales specifically for bale gardening," said Calvin Grimes of the Cherokee Farmers Co-Op. "We still have 100 wheat straw bales left."

According to Jonathan Mobbs of J&M Hardware, they have sold 30 to 40 bales already.

"Planting the crops is really no trouble," said Baker. "I go down about six-and-a-half inches from the top of the bale to make a hole in it. Then, I add potting soil and my tomato plant."

To plant your own wheat straw garden follow these simple directions. Purchase the wheat straws bales and leave the twine or wire on them. (Wheat straw will be less likely to contain weeds than hay.)

If you haven't had the chance to let your bales sit out through winter, give your bale or bales a thorough soaking, and let them begin to rot before your plant your vegetables. If the weather is warm, soak them more than once a day for three days. Make sure they are place where they will be in the sun all summer.

They shouldn't be moved once you've started treating them. (I MOVED 4 OF MINE, BUT IT WAS A CHORE! - Kent)

On the fourth day, apply your choice of fertilizer to the top of each bale. Repeat this for three or four more days. Allow one day for the bales to cool off. Then you are ready to plant your crop. Put commercial potting soil or a 50-50 mix of topsoil and manure on the top of each bail and moisten with a fine water spray. Pull apart the bale by hand to make a hole to put your plant. Each bale should hold two tomato plants or four pepper plants.

When using seeds, mix seeds into the soil mixture on top of the bale. Six to eight cucumbers, three yellow squash or 12-15 bean seeds per bale is the recommended limit.

Root crops such as carrots, parsnips and onions aren't good for bale gardening because the roots would be too crowded. (IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THEY'VE ACTUALLY TRIED IT, JUST SPECULATING - Kent) Annual herbs like basil, cilantro and parsley will thrive. Even watermelon and cantaloupe can be planted in wheat straw.

The wheat straws bales may require more fertilizer applied weekly or monthly, depending the crop.

If you are worried about the appearance of the bales, you may grow annual and perennial flowers, too.

Bales may be used again one or two seasons.

"This kind of gardening is just no trouble at all," said Baker.

"I may try a few other crops this season," said Wright. "It's too easy not to try."

www.postpaper.com/haybale.htm

Thanks for all of your suggestions on my rash/itch. I was really careful not to get anything on my skin so I am sure it is the fumes. I don't know if you know/remember but I have mine in a hoophouse. No ends. But it does hold the fumes in.

I planted my first bale today and those tomatoes were just wiggeling their little toes down into that warm straw. LOL

Speaking of those fumes, they smell like a barn that needs cleaning out. I remember it from when I was a kid. I didn't think the smell was too bad but maybe it wouldn't be too good for my lungs.

The rash is definitly a burn.and itches. I even wore long sleeves today and my arms still swelled up.

Oh well, just got 3 bales to go.

Jeanette

Kent,

I finally found some yellow squash plants and bought 4. I planted 2 in the bale with my eggplant. I have room for 4 more bales in my garden.
I will fill those with the yellow tomatoes I got from the plant give away and then sit back and wait for the harvest. Actually, I expect to work every day in the garden while I am anxiously awaiting my harvest. I am very impatient so I will have to find plenty to do to keep from losing what little is left of my mind. LOL

I planted marigolds in between the tomatoes to keep the cutworms at bay. Something is eating on my eggplant so I have dusted the plants and the tops of the bales with sevin dust.

I still need to get the strings up for my trellis. I don't want those cucumbers under foot.

Well here it is I think I am just about finished with the planting. The tomatoes are showing small fruit. This is going to be the best garden ever. I have found some ladybugs and a lizzard hanging out in the bales. this is great news to see them protecting my plants.

It certainly looks like it Melinda. Really super. Jeanette

BTW, have any of you been fighting ants? I have both big ones and small ones building nests in my bales. I think they love the heat. You wouldn't think with all of that water they would. Anyway I sprinkled powdered sugar and borax around in there today so we will see.