We got this JM last fall -- it's a 'scolopendrifolium' and did wonderfully in the fall. This spring it started off good with new buds, then WHAMMO! it froze. It doesn't look so good. Any advice on how to nurse it back to health?
It looks like it could use some water, but the soil is fine/moistened. It's in a NW protected corner.
See photos...
A close-up...
Everything is 'droopy'.
p.s. This is what it's supposed to look like:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/556850/
tiffanya, I had the exact same thing happen to a japanese maple last year. I searched and searched on the internet to try to determine what was happening and never really settled on a cause. I suspect though, rightly or wrongly, that what happened is called Verticillium Wilt -- unfortunately not uncommon in maples.
I read up on Verticillium Wilt and took stem cuttings to try to determine if this was the problem. If a maple is victim to this wilt, there will often be some specific streaking in the stems. I could never find that streaking though in my tree.
My tree was young as is yours. The tree continued to wilt and the leaves dried up and turned brown, almost as though it had been burned. I couldn't save it, so I followed the advice of many "authorities" I read and burned the tree and then hauled it far away from my property to keep other infections down.
I have no idea if this is the cause of your tree's ailment, but you can read more about the Wilt here:
http://www.caes.state.ct.us/FactSheetFiles/PlantPathology/fspp060f.htm
http://www.treehelp.com/trees/maple/maple-diseases-maple-verticillium-wilt.asp
http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8797
http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG1164.html
Tiffanya.... You said it FROZE right ...well does that mean frost 30-32 degrees or 20 degrees ... if it was just frost or even possibly freeze...those leaves are toast but i'd bet ya (and as I have said here I'm not a bettin' guy) That new ones will come on and your tree should be fine ...It is a large tree withh good size trunk therefore a good root system which all branches and trunk are green. I'd say if all goes right about three weeks or less you'll start seeing new leaves as the others dry up and fall.Jm's are seriously stubborn and many loose all their leaves during the heat of summer if not watered and come back in the late summer blush or the following spring...I got one dubbed my crispy tree last Aug. that looked like a dried pot plant...not one green or red leaf all brown and crispy!!! and stayed that way til this spring ...now it's got more leaves than I got hair ;>) ... anyway if it's not a disease which it seems unlikely IMHO from the heathy look of branches etc then I'd say you'll be fine...and I'm a half empty sort of guy just ask hoard ...David
OH BTW don't water it if it's already "wet" and keep watering ONLY to what is necessary and DON'T fertiliize it either ...both are tendencies everyone heads towards when they see an injured tree...and both can seal the tree's fait if used ...fertizer NONE at all.... water just enough so it doesn't dry out!!!!!!!!! David
Ah, interesting irmaly. Thanks for the very informative links.
I've also done some research on the Web (hopefully is reliable; most credentials of the places I've read seem valid, as does those of fellow Dave's Gardeners) and seen the advice over and over, agreeing with David (myersphcf...thanks!) of "do not fertlize or water more, exercise patience as they are stubborn". We had a good 4-5 week warming streak here, everything was coming up early, including that JM leaves, and then boom! Freeze that killed off some of the too-early spring flowers in the front yard as well as seemingly affected the JM. (50s to 30s = ~-20° drop)
In case it isn't something like V.wilt (there appear to be no yellowing or drying of leaves as pictured in many of the references I found on it), I did find a source that recommended a light application of Kelp Meal. I applied that yesterday with a little water. Will wait and let time take its course / see if it comes back. The nursery has a year guarantee on the tree (pending no severe abuse); it'll be a year in September. I'll wait to see if it comes back or proceeds more toward the V.wilt symptoms. (Will also look into those soil tests...just in case. The other plants in the immediate area are doing pretty well -- lilac, eounymus, fatsonia -- but they may not be affected by the same things as JM.)
The area stays fairly moist (not overly so, but never comes near bone-dry either). Maybe that and the weather change / no cover contributed to the problem.
nature ... always teaching me new things.
:-)
Thanks much,
-Tif :-)
Huummm in looking further at your pic it looks like the top and several of the branches were severly topped and or prunned ...maybe just my imagination ... OR maybe this has happened before and there is something "fungal" in the root system or bacterialogical... It just doesn't seem that a 30+ degree barly frost or freezing could cause that unless it was otherwize stessed...my half empty mindset is taking over ;>). My friend Donnie who posts on the garden web lives in ohio and had a 25 degree night temp ( at airport he might have been a few degrees warmer in town) last week and saw NO damage to any of his trees many palmatums!!!and they were all leafed out ...of course his might have been more protected than yours!!??.... it's been a week and his are perfect!!!...SOOOOO maybe you do have something else going on....hope it goes one way or another in the nxt few weeks so you can get your money back or a new tree I wiouldn't wait too long if nothing is happening in 3-4 weeks i'd pay a visit to your nursery ...tree in hand!!! David
Also remember it frost tends to effect flowers and other stuff close to the ground like if you have a garden it may get creamed by a light frost but bushes and trees no ...your tree is not a short shrub it's a nice size tree HUMMMMM David
Here's what happened to my JM last Spring. It leafed out beautifully with the new leaves. All was well until, suddenly, there was some "wilting" on the top branches. Then the "wilt" moved fast down the tree. When my tree looked like tiffanya's does, I withheld most water and began to take some stem cuttings to see if I could find something. I couldn't find the streaking of V. Wilt, even when I finally took a cutting close to the central leader--still nothing. Slowly, the leaves began to dry up, turn brown. I left it leafless and kept an eye on it, but I never got new leaves. I decided the most likely cause was V. Wilt, but I will never know for sure. As I said, I burned and hauled it off JUST IN CASE so it wouldn't affect any of my other trees. I wish better for your tree--at least you have a guarantee!!
I think next step will be to submit samples to a land-grant college that is studying JMs. And do more research on other types of diseases/bacteria that affect JM.
I took sample branches from around the tree. Opened and checked them all. Here are is an example of what I saw in each. Notice, there is no streaking. Though I've read* that while streaking is typical of wilt infection, sometimes only one or a few such streaks are evident. I'm not sure if they mean that (a) one to a few streaks are found in each branch, or that (b) only a one to a few branches would be affected. [I presume (a).]
Presuming (a) and looking at this article^ [I would assume the article as credible; it's published by a Virginia land-grant college], it says:
" If you cut into the bark at intervals back to where the wilted branch joins the main stem and you do not see any stain, Verticillium is most likely not the cause."
I cut at those spots throughout – where it joins the main stem. Hmm...actually I didn't do any directly to the main vertical, however. I cut branches off each of the first-level horizontal ones. I might need to get a cut from that vertical... I just hate to make the plant think I'm pruning. Poor thing is having a hard of enough time.
They continue to say:
"If streaking is found, branch samples 4-8 inches long with stain can be collected and submitted to the county extension office for laboratory confirmation."
So I get a main branch cut off the vertical, check for more staining. If I see some, then it's probably Verticillium wilt and I'll need to send it in for confirmation.
You guys have been incredibly helpful.
References:
*http://s142412519.onlinehome.us/uw/pdfs/A2537.PDF
*^http://www.treehelp.com/trees/maple/maple-diseases-maple-verticillium-wilt.asp
I think your plan is a good one, tiffanya. Here is another really good discussion and treatment of V. Wilt. You might find it helpful if you haven't seen it already:
http://web.aces.uiuc.edu/vista/pdf_pubs/1010.pdf
Ah, thanks for the additional link/info! :-)
I've gone out and done a main branch cutting off the vertical stalk; no sign of the common striping of Verticillium Wilt.
However, I did notice that ther is a barely visible white powdery mildew on a lot of the branches. Hmmm. I think it's definitely time to package some samples and send it to the LG college. I tried to get a shot of the white powdery substance...
I wonder if it could be 'Pythium'? I haven't found pictures of other JMs online with this, but the wilted appearance of some of the other trees/leaves I see online with it look similar.
The leaves are moist, don't have any of the character dryness (though are gradually drying) that appears in the V.Wilt example images.
My Brittany Spaniel has also had a thing about digging around the base of the tree, so we had to put up a fence to keep him away. A form of root rot would explain his interest in that area.
I see the mildew. Maybe it is rot? I would send to LG college....
I sent the pathology dept. at WSU an e-mail with link to this forum. Will continue to poke around / call the local Master Gardener center to learn about how to submit samples.
Thanks for all the advice and ideas. :-)
Please keep us updated.
Update: Got in touch with the LG College. Their field plant pathology lab just happens to be the next town over from me (yay!), and I can bring in samples for testing. After initial consult and reviewing the pictures here, like you, they also suspect V.Wilt.
(I really hope it's not that...they also said that if it is confirmed, that no susceptible species should be grown in the area for ~20 years!! Holy smokes...that's a long-life problem!)
I have planned for a paperbark maple (Acer griseum) in another part of the yard. I'll check with them to see if it is resistant before advancing further in that direction.
tiffanya, I am sorry if your tree has V. Wilt, but if it does, I'm glad you're catching it now rather than have the tree die of it later. I also read the part about not planting susceptible species in areas for many years if V. Wilt is present. I have sort of abandoned the place where my tree was last year. I also read this problem is magnified by bringing in plants in pots from irresponsible nurseries, where the soil is contaminated. I have gotten so now a lot of times I leave a small JM in a pot for a year or two before I plant it, although I broke that practice last year and have my fingers crossed. Let us know the final analysis.
(on vacation this week) Yesterday we went to the Bonsai Gardens in the Weyerhauser Campus (Federal Way, Wash.). I'm feeling a bit inspired to grow maples in small pots (controlled soil!). ;-)
I'm so saddened by the poor appearance (and expected poor outcome) of my scolopendrifolium. I was so excited when I got it last fall. We even put little bench in its area and regularly sit near it on comfortable-temperature eves.
I've now printed/filled out the forms for the LG college's 'plant & insect diagnostic lab', will take some fresh samples, and drive them over after 8AM today. They charge just $15 to diagnose based on samples of branches, roots, and soil (though have higher costs for other special tests). Found my original receipt (confirmed: 1-year live goods guarantee...excludes lack of water and maintenance!) and will also make a trip to the nursery to see what we can do...
I have kept notes (three ring binder, photos with dates and milestones) on my trees, shrubs, and major perennials; am glad to have done that as it will help support any questions from the original nursery.
DON'T jump the gun ...ok to contact the nursery to give them a heads up but I'd wait a bit and see if it re-leafs....I am not convinced of disease although it looks likely and a few weeks to see what happens won't hurt ...you just don't want to get past that one year gurantee date but if you touch base now with your nursery and explain what has happened and tell them you'll give it say 3 weeks.... you should have your rear covered sufficiently ...Daivd
Oh yea, thanks for the advice David!
Well, I dropped of specimens at the WSU Plant Pathology Lab on Thursday. The scientist looked for signs of V.Wilt and said that she expects it to be ruled out/confirmed as not the cause once the lab results are back. We are hoping that the results tell us something.
The tree looks worse every day.
tiffanya, did you ever get the results back?
Here is a copy of the results w/letter from the plant pathologist:
-----------------------------------------
Hi Tiffany,
You should be getting a letter in the mail from me today or tomorrow. I think, however, that I overlooked something in my diagnosis. We just had a sample in from Lewis County where the maple leaves (but not the stems or the latent buds) were damaged by cold temperatures. I'm pretty sure that I overlooked the possibility that your tree was suffering from cold weather occurring AFTER the leaves began to grow this spring (I ruled out winter injury to the stems resulting in the collapse but not cold temperatures to the leaves-- I didn't think about this because we never had any late frosts in my home in East Tacoma-- but you may have had one in the Sumner area being closer to the valley floor).
Do you know if there were any frosts between the time the leaves began to grow and the collapse of the plant? If so, then there is probably a connection between the foliage collapse and temperatures cold enough to damage expanded leaves. Stems and latent buds were likely hardy enough not to show damage-- monitor this plant for regrowth.
[signed by the pathologist, removed for confidentiality]
Text of Original Letter:
No primary insect pests or disease organisms were observed microscopically on the Japanese maple sample submitted to the WSU Puyallup Diagnostic Laboratory. The maple sample submitted for diagnostic purposes does not appear to be infected with Verticillium wilt. No discoloration in the wood was apparent in the sample and no growth of the pathogen Verticillium was recovered when tissue was plated onto sterile laboratory agar. In addition, the description (complete collapse of an otherwise healthy plant) and timing of the problem (within a few months of transplanting) is not that typical of Verticillium wilt.
No necrosis was observed on the branch stems to suggest that winter injury from cold temperatures was associated with the collapse of the foliage.
The complete collapse of the foliage over the entire plant is indicative of damage originating in the roots. You mentioned a concern about a chemical* used on a nearby pathway that may have washed into the root zone of this tree-- if this was the cause of the problem you'd probably also see damage to the grassy weeds (shown in the picture) under the tree. Nor did the fine feeder roots in the sample appear damaged or
burnt.
Monitor the plant to see if any new growth develops from latent buds, if the plant doesn't show signs of recovery-- it should probably be dug up and the root system carefully examined. Please consider bringing the plant to the laboratory for further diagnosis (or take good close up pictures of the root system). Transplant stresses may also be associated with plant collapse -- refer to the enclosure** for more information about this problem.
-----------------------------------------
*I had learned and reported to her that my DH had, back in March, used a cleaning solution to clean the nearby sidewalk. We followed-up with her with the name of the chemical, its MSDS, and active ingredients. Upon further review, it was determined that this biodegradeable solution was not the cause of the JM's demise.
**The enclosure was regarding JM problems due to to transplant shock. Thus, below I followed up with her, writing:
------------------------------------------
All leaves are now shriveled; still on the tree. The branches appear to be dying from the tips back toward their main vertical support. The small buds that previously had hope appear to be dry. Quite the mystery! We'll wait another month to see if anything happens, then if the results are as-is/worse, will pull the tree.
When we first planted the tree, we did spread the root ends and follow the other planting instructions given [verbally] by the 'tree guy' at [nursery where purchased]. However, upon reading the "IPM: transplant shock" paper, we see that we didn't make 6-8 vetical cuts through surface roots.
Do you think that, perhaps, removing the tree, doing the vertical cuts and replanting may cease the problem? (I know we're supposed to leave the plant alone when it's gone into shock, but I'm wondering if there's anything that can be done to save it.)
--------------------------------------------
Her response:
--------------------------------------------
Tiffany,
Regarding the planting: The goal of spreading/cutting etc. is to prevent circling girdling root systems in the future. Carefully spreading the roots probably is better for the overall health of the plant than cutting the roots (but cutting the roots is better than just dropping the plant into the hole as is).
Since the tree has been badly damaged, I wouldn't recommend doing anything to it but waiting to see if the plant will recover some.
Sorry to hear that the branches appear to be dying as well--- that is not a good sign!
[signed by pathologist]
This message was edited May 16, 2006 7:54 PM
...and a photo of what the JM looked like yesterday.
This weekend, I will take a clipping, the letter/test results and e-mail follow-ups, photos (when purchased vs. now), and the receipt/warranty to the nursery and figure out next steps for how their warranty works for replacement trees. I hope that they have a heartier one that's just as cute as this one was when we first got it. It's so sad to see a 20-year-old tree die in just three short months.
Will also be taking the roots (or photos of them) to the WSU Plant Pathology Lab after we dig it up. I'll report back with findings at that time.
It sure would be nice to know what was wrong with it before we put in a replacement. I really don't want another cute tree to die.
This message was edited May 16, 2006 7:57 PM
YIKES!!! Looks deader than a door nail...but some green ness showing ... yep time to go for that warrentee..youve likely given it enough time ... One thing I'd NOT do is plant the replacement jm or any other Jm or valuable tree anywhere near that spot... There may not be any pathogens in the soil sorounding the "dead" tree but I sure as hell would bet on it. I have found replanting a tree on or near dead trees is usually a really bad idea ..I can't tell you how many fruit trees I've lost doing that...ya never learn or at least it took me a while to figure out that its not a good idea...Now I just keep those areas "tree free" David
Years ago we lost a Halesia tree after it had been happy and in the ground for almost 10 years. I had everyone in the world come out and look for ideas on what had happened. No one was able to help us out, but we decided in the end that the tree had most likely girdled itself. That was the last time we planted a tree in the wire cage and burlap.
Yea, it's pretty dead looking. I can tell that the branches are also dying from the tips back by checking the wood and bark. So sad.
And here we even set up a special place for the JM. I just might have to extend that garden out some as not to put the replacement in the same spot.
Tree last fall, original planting...
tiffanya, just a thought--not a diagnosis. Is there any chance you might have planted the tree too deep? Just recently I learned that JMs don't like to be planted deep and that it can cause rot of both the roots and the trunk where the trunk meets the ground. Again, just a thought.
irmaly, yea, that was also something that we were wondering, so had taken a picture for the Plant Pathology Lab. No sign of problems there, either.
Well, at least I have a lot of documentation to back-up the guarantee/warranty, eh?
That WAS a nice lookin tree!!! ...but I must say it seems like a little to big of tree ( scolo) in ultimate growth , for where you have placed it ( past news I know)...You might want to look at a bit smaller variety one that grows 8-10 feet max...the sclo ( 12-20 ft I think) isn't huge but but may be a bit large in your growing area... even if you plant towards the foreground of the pic it will still MAY be a bit large IMHO. Just a thought ..whatever if they don't have a comparable scolo try to get something else the same size priced similarily...maybe one that would be a bit smaller ( total max growth NOT present state)..and I don't know how their warrentee reads ..but in any case demand a tree of equal quality size and branching ...Just a thought although unasked for ;>) !! David
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....the tree guy at the nursery had told us that the tree would only get to 9' high!! Well, I guess no worries on its height...it's nearly dead.
You could place a nice large container in the same spot and still have your JM there.
Laura
Yes Laura is correct ...although I think containers are alot of trouble some folks like to do them...just as some folks gots the patience to do bonzai...I don't!!! and some folks have to in extreeme northern climates or if they wish to have a tender cultivar even in a not so northern place...I have been learning though since I've gotten into grafting i have to do the container thing...It is NOT easy...but that is a solution to putting it exactly where you had the other and keeping it smaller as well ...a twofer...but MUCH more work involving correct soiless material, fertilizer, and the pain traditional changing of pots as the tree grows while trying not to kill or damage it which becomes problematic with a larger tree like you had... but it is an option...david
I think it's, unfortunately...
it's sometimes too cold during Pacific NorthWest winters to leave containerized plants outdoors. I have no idea how much I'd have to insulate the poor dear as there's no place to relocate such tree.
...I'll have to give that method some thought.
tiffanya, just wondering if there is an update to your tree situation here? Did you excercise the warranty?
Hi irmaly,
The nusery said it looked like anthracnose, particularly due to the spotting on the branches and trunk, which increased as the leaves shriveled/died. All branches continued to die back toward vertical.
Though the plant pathology lab and felt anthracnose was not the cause, we went with the nursery's suggestion and avoided japanese maples and dogwoods as the replacement. (I have to say, I was quite bummed as my first choice was JM, second was dogwood. -- They are both susceptible to strains of anthracnose.)
The nursery was GREAT!! They honored their "1-year live goods guarantee" by accepting the dead tree, replacing it with a new tree, and crediting the balance to "my account." (Wow, I have an account there now!)
We ended up picking out one that said it would grow to 10' by its 10th year. Now, what the tag didn't tell us was the max height on the tree...we learned that after returning home (50–100'!). Now we're working on ideas to keep it a reasonable size for the area...perhaps either a buried or an above-ground pot. Maybe convert it to a large bonsai? (We're both beginners in bonsai and will be practicing on small trees/shrubs.)
And the replacement?
Metasequoia glyptostroboides 'Gold Rush'/ 'Ogon'
http://tinyurl.com/zheo5
So, next steps -- take pest management action to rid the soil/area of possible anthracnose. I would like to test the soil to learn if that is truly the cause. If so, anthracnose could have been introduced via a variety of ways -- development fill; truck-delivered topsoil; bagged soil, peat moss, or bark; plants from various nurseries; etc.
My next JM will be a small variety for growing in a pot.
This message was edited Jun 2, 2006 12:52 PM
