Grapevine Arbor Help Please

We want to put in 2 Niagara Grapes this year. The structure for them to vine on will be an arbor w/ benches and a gate to our fence that my dh is building. The construction process hasn't begun yet and the grapes need to get into the ground before too long. They are in the house now and are already showing over 2' of growth. There's no way the arbor will be ready in time.

I haven't had time yet to read everything I need to know about tending & caring for grapevines. I'm hoping someone here will check what I'm planning on doing and let me know whether or not it's a good idea. Please, please!! :-)

I don't think it would be good to plant and then move the grapes, or to put them in a pot, so I'm thinking to put them right where they'll be growing forever. The arbor, once completed, will go in between the plants.....of course! LOL! I'm assuming from what I have gotten to read that in my zone (zone 5) I'll be cutting them back nearly to the ground each year. So, I'm thinking I could temporarily trellis them for this year by putting in trellises on the other side of the plants. Once the arbor is completed it would be installed, but have nothing growing on it till next year. This year the plants would be "sandwiched" between the arbor and trellises. After cutting back this fall the vines would be transferred to the arbor and any new growth next year would be grown on the arbor. Did I explain that well enough to make sense? If not please let me know and I'll try again.

Will this work? Will this be ok for the plants and not harm them? Is there something I'm not thinking about, I've never grown grapes before? Will the base of the vines be too heavy/thick to transfer or switch directions like that? If they end up breaking off from the roots, will they come back next year?

I am also assuming that by the time the arbor is constructed the grapes will have so much vine growth that they will be too far along to transfer from the trellis to the arbor. If they can grow up to 20' in a year they have to grow very fast. I won't be allowing them to produce fruit this year, so that's not a concern. I've even considered limiting the growth of the vines, but I haven't had time to research that yet and won't seriously consider it until I can get some good info on it.

Thanks everyone for reading ALL of this, I really appreciate any help and info...send along any links that you know have good grape info, I'd love to have them! I'm so excited, I can't believe I finally have grapevines! I've wanted these for years, it's like a dream come true! :-)

I think you should plant them where they will be growing.
This fall or early spring you will be chosing 4 vines to grow along your supports, and cutting the rest off.
Next year you will be leaving about 3' of growth as you trim and train. If they tendril on the temporary support, the tendrils can be cut and the vine tied to the arbor where they will re- attach themselves. Each year they will need to be trimmed back to so many buds for the next year.
We just replaced grapevines last year and are putting in 2 more this week. We have ours on posts strung with wire. We planted Concords. I love grapes! Good luck with yours.
( I'm not an expert, so someone else will give you better advice. I'm just going by experience with mine.)

Thank you very much! You may not consider yourself an expert, but you have much more wisdom about this than I do!

Unless someone else stops by with other advise I'll stick w/ this plan then.

We are already talking about putting in some Concords next year. I think we'll have that arbor built ahead of time tho!

There are so many things I'm looking forward to w/ these grapes, and not just the fruit itself. I love the vines...how they look when they are growing, plus being able to make wreaths and etc. I've gone into the woods and brought home truckloads of wild vines and soaked them in kiddie pools to make wreaths. Yeah, my neighbors think I'm nuts. It will be nice to have my own supply and not have to trudge thru the woods and hunt them down and drag them home!

Thanks again for your help,
Heather

Does anyone else have any ideas please?

Six years ago, I had to plant my grapes before my husband built our arbor. I have the distinct feeling I would not have gotten the arbor if I had not already ordered the grapes! Except then my DH ( stubborn fella) decided to build the arbor 2 feet smaller than I wanted it! I transplanted my grapes to where the arbor now is, and aside from waiting a coiuple years longer for maturity, they have grown just fine.

Thanks Ivy. I appreciate the info. I won't be letting these fruit for the first few years, so if the arbor construction gets halted for some reason I won't have to worry...that's very good to know!

I'd love to see pictures of your arbor when it's done.
We just used poles and wire.

I like the look of poles and wires, I just don't know if I have the room for that. It seems like it would be easier to tend to the vines if it were set up that way. Of course, what we are choosing to do has to fit in w/ my English/rustic garden theme too! LOL

Here's a pic I swiped off of this site http://www.cedarstore.com/detail.aspx?ID=960 of the arbor we are going to copy, with a few modifications. We're figuring our price for materials will be around $250.

Wow Heather great choice..!!Make sure to post us a picture once your done..Now get busy..!!

Loretta

That's beautiful!

Here's ours, not nearly so exciting...but we love it!

Ivy, I love yours!! Very rustic and cottage/English garden feeling...that's kind of what I'd like. That's why I said we'd be modifying this one.

It'll have a flat top, more like a regular, old time arbor. The measurements won't be exactly the same. We'll also be painting or staining it white. I'm not sure on the paint or stain yet...depends on which will give me an older look faster...maybe like a white-washed look. You know what I mean.

Since nothing is set in stone yet I am going to show Ivy's to dh and see what he thinks. It sure would be quicker and easier to build. I really do like the feel of it.

We live on an in-town corner and I'm trying so hard to make this some kind of relaxing retreat!

Ivy, if I do copy you, would you mind? I'd still have to modify it because we were planning on it attaching to a picket style fence right at the gate. That's why the other arbor would work so well. Hmm, how can I make this work? Any ideas?

I'd be flattered if you copied us!

How about a curved panel coming down on either side of the arbor gradually going into the fence pickets? It's a style I've always liked. Your panels would be the same style as whatever fence pickets you have. Does that make sense?

I'm not sure if I know what you mean by curved. I guess I should be from Moussouri..."show me"...LOL!

I just love the looks of an arbor made from trees or logs. Now I'm wondering about just making the arbor separate from the fence. That should be easier for my hubby anyway. I'll have to show him the pic of yours and we'll have to discuss it tonight. I know I could get the trees from my brother's property w/out a problem.

I really do like yours better...the pic I posted is a gorgeous arbor...but it's more...what's the word??? Like something you'd see on an estate...that's not what I'm going for.

I wonder if I get the trees cut if I'd have to wait for them to dry before the arbor is built? Did you seal or protect yours w/ anything...how long do you expect it to last?

I love both of those! I like the idea of standing, or sitting underneath and eating grapes.

I have an arbor, but I'm planting honeysuckle on it.

Very nice!

I talked w/ dh when he got home from work today and showed him Ivy's pic...and am still trying to sell him on it. We'll see what happens. I think that maybe he just wants to build the arbor. I'm trying to come up with some kind of compromise we can both be happy with.

Both ideas were neat! I like Ivy's too, but I also like the old time flat tops. I agree your choice is fancy, but it sure is pretty. One of us should have made a thread for photos of arbors.

A thread for photos of arbors is a great idea...especially for self made arbors. You could even include trellises of all sorts. It would be really neat to see what's out there and what folks have come up with.

My husband got the cedar saplings from a guy at work and they were over a year old. They were full trunks with bark, and we did nothing to them- no sealing at all. The birds came the next year and slowly ripped all the bark off the trunks and used it for nesting!

They still love to hang out in there. Last year I did not cut back the vines, and when I came out the first time in spring a catbird was nesting in them. We really scared each other when she came flapping over my head into the arbor!

By the way, our vines had more grapes the year we didn't prune them.

The only thing we did to those posts was to set them in concrete.

Here is a picture of a fence attached to an arbor with a curved panel on the right - not exactly the type of arbor we have but maybe it will give an idea...it's the top picture.

http://www.gmfence.com/arbor.html

Ivy, why don't you start the arbor thread. We didn't make ours, so I don't really qualify. You have the neatest old time arbor so far.

We didn't get around to pruning ours either this year and I was just pointing out to DH how many we have this year. They were 1 year old grapes in 2004.

That's great, billyporter!

That is so interesting about pruning vs not pruning your vines. I'm still reading up on how to care for the vines and I have a LOT to learn. I thought it was essential to cut them back...but I guess not. I'm going to have to research the "why" behind cutting vs not cutting them. I prolly will cut mine back, just because I'll want the vines too. But, maybe I won't need all the vines and can leave some alone. What do you all use your grapes for? What kind of grapes do you have?

I don't even know what all we are planning on using ours for. Isn't that awful!? A friend does make wine, and I'll prolly offer some to him. If the wine is good then he'll always get a good amount. I'd like to can some juice...however you do that. Then, of course, just have some for eatin' and sharing w/ the neighbors. If we get too many they'll be nice to have for the compost pile I guess.

Ivy, I hope you do start that thread and it gets lots & lots of post.

Sheesh, I forgot to respond to the pic you posted Ivy. Sorry.

That's kind of what we had in mind, only the part of the arbor that you walk thru, or sit in, would have the gate attached to it. I just can't come up w/ an idea of how to make a nice rustic looking arbor like yours and still tie it into the fence. I guess mostly because the arbor and fencing wouldn't match well. Rustic arbor, picket fence.

Dh did talk about doing the fence out of lattice...much less work & cheaper. Still doesn't help me w/ attaching it to an arbor like Ivy's tho. Unless....

Can y'all picture this (and how would it look)? An arbor similar to Ivy's w/ lattice on the bottom half. The lattice would only be under the rails that look like they are about waist high. The fence and these rails would be set at the same height. That could work. I could also leave the lattice a natural, washed out color...the grayish worn color it gets after being in the weather for a bit. Then I could just seal it and not stain it. That might work. Also, I think I'd set the lattice on it's side, if possible, so it showed a square pattern rather than a diamond pattern...that would hopefully make it look more rustic rather than cottage like. What do you think? Can you picture it? Would it work or am I stretching it too far?

I think this would be rustic and not fancy-smanchy. 'Fancy-smanchy' is the word for the arbor that I posted the pic of before! LOL!

Heathrjoy, My dad has pruned his ever since I can remember. DH Dad never pruned his. I need to read up on it too. If I have tiny grapes this year I'll prune.

We want to try wine, but it takes a LOT of grapes. I'll make juice.
Pick and wash the grapes. Sort out the bad ones. Fill a canning jar about half full. Pour boiling water to the top of the jar and seal with the flat and ring. I don't think we did a bath, I think they were hot enough to seal. Tastes just like Welches. I think I used about 1/3 c. sugar per jar when making a pitcher of juice.

I think your arbor would look nice. I can picture it. I like the privacy feeling of the lattice. Our arbor isn't sealed. It is stained. DH painted Danish Oil on it last spring, but not this year.

This message was edited May 14, 2006 2:20 PM

Danish Oil...would that bring out the wood grain and give it that wet look all the time? I love that but don't think it would fit in here. My brother's whole house is like that...inside and out. Gorgeous! I want to move in w/ him...or park a trailer on the far side of his property where it's hidden and point to his house and say that's where I live. LOL!

Thanks for the recipe too. I'll have to copy that and keep it. It sure looks simple enough that maybe I won't screw it up.

I'm wondering if I can sell dh on this arbor idea. I may just be able to. I know we can't get cedar logs around here. I'm not sure what would be available that would work well...but my brother should know. He better know anyway, I'm counting on him to know. I think I'm going to call him now, I know he's home, just talked to him.

I think I may have sold dh!!! Yippeee!

We are going to my DB's to look at trees...if I ever get off of DG! I'll let you know what we find. These guys are so good to me!

OK. I'll start the thread- should I do it here in Vines and Climbers?

Sounds like a good place Ivy. I'm excited to see what others have!

I'm excited to see too! I hope it doesn't make me change my mind on what I want tho.

We went pickin' trees today. Picked 4 for posts, and a bunch for the top of the arbor. The posts will be Maple and we're thinking Beech for the top. We'll take the bark off the Maple, but leave it on the Beech since the Beech has thinner, smoother bark and it won't be falling on anyone's head.

Ivy you're so lucky to live where there is Cedar. We're going to HAVE to seal these, but that should make them nicer looking I think. Also, we have to pitch them w/ roofing tar wherever they touch or go into the ground to keep them from rotting. I think the tar thing is something we may have to do every so many years. My DB has old telephone poles he got from the state...they were removed from the roadside because they were rotting. He put them in about 8 yrs ago and tarred them where they contacted and went into the ground...only when he installed them. They are still standing and very sturdy. So, that gives me hope that I'm not crazy for doing this.....

At least not as crazy as the guys at the home center thought I was when I asked for lattice w/ a square pattern rather than a diamond pattern. Then they called the company and found out I knew more than they did! LOL! It's too expensive. We are pricing lath to make our own.

Trust your judgement, Heathrjoy. You probably know best what will work in your climate, soil and other conditions!

My DH had to build his own square lattice too, for a trellis on the front of our house. It is supposed to have a half circle shape on top, but it's been 2 years and so far- no top!

By the way, here is the new arbor thread- http://davesgarden.com/forums/f/climbers/all/