Pill bug/rolly polly/ doodle bug...enemy??

I've read that these are harmless and are only eating decaying matter, but is that always the case? I seem to be having some sort of plague of them and have some plants starting to look sickly for no apparent reason. The only thing different is now there are tons of these around the base of the plants.

Is it worth it to wage war on them? It could be worse than trying to tackle aphids on milkweed. I don't look forward to it but you know how mother's are with their babies! (my plants in this case)

konkreteblond - The mouthparts of pillbugs and sowbugs are generally built only for eating soft things - in other words stuff that is pretty decayed. That being said, if the criiters get stressed, I have heard they can do some nibbling to already damaged stuff. In my experience though - and I had a year like you are describing with lots and lots of them - they only did "damage" when there was already a hole (like say in a squash or a tomato on the ground) or similar damage, and usually they were using that hole to sleep in. In fact I rather enjoyed my rollies that year, because I didn't have to deadhead my flowers - On a cloudy day once, I observed them actually crawling up a flower stem to eat a decayed and dead flower. They ate only the dead flower without harming any of the rest of the plant.

I suppose though that if there are lots of these around the base of your plants, and those stems are tender, that just their being there might potentially be scraping your plants? If you think that could be the case, see below. Also is it very wet in your area this year? If it is, I'd be careful for fungi too, because here in Georgia, the fungus and bacteria can get the plants faster than anything. All it takes is a week or so of cloudy, damp weather, and I'm worrying that I'll lose all my veggies. Despite the critters (except for the stupid squash vine borers, they generally eat each other), I almost never have to spray for insects, but I usually have to spray at least my veggies twice for fungus and disease, and sometimes even my flowers get hit.

Now if you would rather not have them hanging around your plants just in case, I have a suggestion - and we can see what others think - you might try giving them something to huddle under. If you give them, say, a board and keep it moist (not too wet but damp), the rollies will hang out under there for sure. That way if you really did want to get rid of them - :( aww poor rollies - you could check under the board to make sure there wasn't anything cuddly under there (like a toad, frog, snake, etc.) then stomp on the board and smush the rollies. Repeat as needed.

Also - and this could be better if you'd rather not have a board around - make sure that any mulch you have is pushed back from the plant stems. Rollies need moisture to survive, and without cover, they should vacate the area around your plant stems when the sun shines on the soil and dries it out.

I hope the information and suggestions help.

Oops, I should've mentioned that what I call doodle bugs are actually insects (Pillbugs and sowbugs are actually crustaceans) Doodle bugs are the larvae of ant lions. Only some species make pits. Others creep around under the surface of the soil which can leave tracks that look like "doodles" in the sand. Ant lions are insect predators and beneficial.

Thanks NB! That was such great information! I trust your expertise and value your opinion, so you have convinced me that they are just gathering in the shade. It's already been in the upper 80's here so I am sure they are seeking shade.

We haven't had much rain but a few weeks ago I got 8" in 2 days! I think that's when more of them started to appear. But that didn't take long to all dry up and send them back in the shade.

It could be that these few plants got too much of that water at one time and did get root rot. I hadn't thought about that since it usually is so dry.

I don't think I'll bother with a board for them, but might do that later for slugs. blech! I don't think I want to squish all the rollies either. :( You've got my curiosity peaked now. I think I'll get my 7 yr old and go out and watch them today and see if we can see what they are doing and maybe see one eating.

Once again, you've spared an innocent critter's life. ;) Thanks!

Often the "bugs" you see are eating the "bugs" on you plant that are eating your plant. Look under the leaves and look for ants. They always tell me where the bad guys are. Many of he slimy and ugly bugs are good guys.

Oh, I just hate the ants too!! I have a variety of different kinds. I try to refrain from killing too many things in my garden but sometimes I get frustrated and threaten them. I ran for the insecticidal soap today to kill some aphids on my daisies but when I returned I saw 2 beautiful ladybugs and was reminded not to be so hasty. That's a great sign for my garden, to have the ladybugs already!

No No I like the ants. They are hauling away the aphids and baby aphids. When there are ants climbing the tree they are gathering food. Aphids bad ants good. LOL

You must not have fire ants then!! I know there is a purpose for other ants tho, but they are just too abundant. I've got several different kinds and sizes now, and they are all attempting to come inside! NO! BAD ANT!

I have never seen an ant carrying off an aphid tho. I know they go hand in hand, but I thought the ants were just after the sweet stuff (honeydew?) excreted by the aphids, not the aphids themselves. THAT would be fine with me but I always just see them moving alone, no aphids in tow. ??

Yes you are right the honeydew. I know that there is a million ants on my aphid trees. So they don't do meat? I assumed they were taking the aphid. Fire ants are the only meat eater?

konkreteblonde - a variety of ants is a good thing. One of the biggest enemies of fire ants trying to establish new nests are other ants. They come out and predate on the new queens as they come down. I wrote a bunch of information on fire ants and good ways of getting rid of them in the fire ant thread if you want to take a look.

Thanks NB, looks like me and Soferdig need to go read up on ants. lol I guess I should be glad that I have different kinds but would prefer they stay outside. I've got big ones, I think are Acrobat ants and tiny little ones now that are coming in where there is water. I've got this horrid vision of a HUGE ant nest under my house that just creeps me out!

Really Soferdig, I have never seen them carrying the ants off. I think they just eat the honeydew. What is an "aphid tree"?? I don't think I want one of them. ;) Althought I have a lot of milkweed that is basically an aphid tree too.

Aphid tree = any tree or bush infested with aphids. I just assumed they were hauling aphids why else climb the tree was my thought. I should go read. Lets see Fire ant thread....

Here is the thread in case you haven't found it.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/452021/

Very good info on how to use baits! But no answer there about the aphids, unless the larger ants are carrying aphids off to the larvae?? What it sounds like tho is they are after the honeydew. Which means, you need to wash those aphids off those trees! lol

Some one else has seen the same thing with the ants predating on other pests. http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/389871/ Also I saw that carpenter ants may be predators also.

Wow, that's weird! If we don't hear from NB on this thread we'll have to start another one to get attention and settle this...do they carry the aphids off or not!?

Your job now is to set out with your camera and get a pic of your ants carrying one. ;) LOL

From what NB said, the ants must carry off their prey to the larvae. That's what they must do to my Gulf Fritillary eggs on my passionvine. They travel up and down the vine, looking like they do nothing, but I caught them once in the act of stealing an egg. Again I say, bad ant!!

Yes I read his dissertation on fire ants. Very interesting. I have seen them carring each other, aphids, and of course debris from the environment. I am not an ant expert I only observe and assume. This time I don't know. NB What do you think.

Ants can be a good and bad thing at the same time when it comes to insects and aphids. In some circumstances, fire ants are seen as a very beneficial thing for example - a good instance is in sugar cane fields where they drastically reduce the pest population feeding on the sugarcane. Ants, however, as konkreteblonde observed, are not very picky. They'll eat the good as well as the bad bugs.

As for ants and aphids, it may depend on the type of ants. I think fire ants, for example would be just as likely (if not more likely) to pick up the aphids for eating as they would to visit them for honeydew. Many other types of ants, however, will defend the aphids so that they can have the honeydew... Unless they get hungry or need protein more than sugar (which depends on whether they are raising larvae, the time of year, etc. etc.). As an example, here is a picture of my poor Chinese beans. I had a continuing battle with the ants and the aphids later in the year (when ants most want sugar). I would blast the aphids (and ants) off the beans with a hose, killing many of the aphids. I didn't want to kill the ants - they would go running away when I blasted, or otherwise would survive the water - because the ants also would attack both pest caterpillars and leaf beetles in my garden (I had seen them taking both as prey). Unfortunately, the ants would also carry the aphids back up and stick them back on the beans. I would come back a day or two later and there would be those %&^$* aphids again with the ants proudly guarding them, so I'd have to come back with the hose.

So the main answer is, if the lady beetles, lacewings, parasitic wasps, and syrphid fly larvae don't get your aphids - and they almost always get mine just when I think I'll have to take action - you can blast em with the hose. That ususally works fine as long as you don't have ants bringing them back up.

The ants here with the aphids are carpenter ants. In general, if you have larger sized ants they are usually either carpenter ants or they are a Formica species of some kind (which look an awful lot like carpenter ants).

Carpenter ants guarding their aphids on Chinese beans...

So how does an ant rationalize that they need to carry aphids back up the plant to provide for sugars in their life. I always wonder these big questions. Because they don't have water blasting healthy aphids off leaves in any Darwinian history.

But a heavy rain could knock off some. A plant could also be damaged by wind or an animal eating it or by it becoming unhealthy. There are many circumstances that might ellicit the necessity to move their "cattle," and ants that were able to do this would be assured of having a tasty and sometimes necessary food source.

But it would take the first ant to rationalize to put it back. Unless the Intellegent design might be at work. Really how does the genetic predisposition of such simple creatures get started. I'm just thinking.