Gardenia with Spider Mites

I posted this in the house plant forum, but thought I would post here as well since the gardenias are outdoor plants for part of the year. I have had two little gardenias in pots since last fall. Since coming in for the winter, both of them got spider mites. After several sprayings with a commercial spray designed to get rid of such pests, one of my gardenias is doing fine. He still has many mottled and discoloured leaves, but he is growing happily and I think I will do very well once he goes outside for the summer.

My other gardenia, however, is another story. No matter how much spraying or cleansing I do, I cannot get rid of the spider mites. I have tried three different sprays (1 multi-purpose indoor pesticide spray, 1 spray designed for mites and spiders, and 1 type of paraffin spray designed to coat leaves and smother bugs) and this gardenia looks awful. He has new growth on the tips of his branches, but slowly the new growth turns black. And the spider mites just keep on coming........

Has anyone found a solution for such a nasty infestation? Any suggestions for the best way to treat this poor gardenia?

This is a picture of the unhealthy gardenia:

This message was edited Apr 4, 2006 4:14 PM

Here's a picture of the healthier gardenia:

Have you tried a plain old soapsuds bath? Dave, "America's Premier Gardener," claims most mites and aphids hate detergent, especially the lemon-scented kind. The recipe is 2 tbsp. detergent (regular, NOT antibacterial), 1 tbsp antiseptic mouthwash to 1 gallon of warm water. Douse the plant with it and then rinse it off. Try it. Sure can't hurt at this point. Let me know.

Pilgrim

Sorry for not responding sooner! I have been overwhelmed and have been slacking in my DG posting. Thank you so much for your suggestion!

Before I got too busy, I tried your idea! And I repotted the plant on top of it to get it out of the dirt that probably had leftover mites. After that, I kept a close eye on the plant. I got a bit paranoid and I also sprayed it with Neem oil. The poor thing looks awful (even worse than before because it too me a little while to get to hosing him down) but at least he's still got some green and he's stopped going downhill. And he's outdoors now most days and nights, which I hope will help as well.

Cheers, and thanks,
Nissa

This message was edited May 1, 2006 1:10 PM

Nissa, I love gardenias but gave up raising them a long time ago, mainly for the same reasons you've stated. After reading this thread though, I might try it again. Getting back to your problem, I think you may be loving it TOO much. It sounds like you're not giving it a chance to recoup. I would mist it like crazy (just water), and perhaps give it a weak feeding for now. Let us know how it's coming along. By the way, it may be a little naive on my part, but how do you know it's a "he" HEEHEE.

Sal

LOL Sal. Good question :-) I have no idea how this particular gardenia came to be known as a "he". Generally it's "that plant". This one just seemed to be a bit more personal I suppose... This gardenia has been quite difficult, so maybe he's reminding me of how annoying my two male cats can be? Or he could be trying to be as "helpful" as my DH? :-) This gardenia's a troublemaker! It must be a "he"! LOL (Sorry, no offense meant to the wonderful males in my life or to the ones on this list :-) )

As for loving my sick gardenia too much, I think you may kind of be right. Yet kind of not as well because Although I'd want to let him rest, I'd keep seeing spider mites! I'd make myself wait at least 10 days between trying anything, even if I saw spider mites alive and well. Ugh, I cannot believe how hard they are to get rid of! It's really creepy. I'm going to be sure that all 3 of my gardenias spend the summer outdoors. Then I'm sure this game will start up again in the fall... There has to be a better way!

Nissa

I agree with Nissa. That plant is a male. I have two that I am growing indoors. I grow everything indoors. So far I have only had a problem with gnats. (yes i over loved my plant) I will keep my eyes open for the spider mites also. As for my Gardenias I am waiting to see what sex they turn out to be. I praying for girls :)

Tonja

Hello Calypsa and everyone... I posted this in another forum a few days ago:

"Aaaahhh.... gardenias... they are worse than cats. They say you don't own a cat, the cat owns you - and gardenias are much the same.

This wonderful post was supposed to be about fragrant plants, and it quickly slipped away into the shifting sands of raising gardenias!!!!!!!!!!! I myself am owned by three small gardenia bushes that bloom every now and then.

You can't be too fussy about them, because they'll take advantage of you LOL! Moderate indifference seems to do the trick when nothing else does!"

Well...... ;-)

I think that my one super healthy gardenia may be female. It's caused me no trouble thus far and bloomed its little heart out this spring. But the difficult one is still most definitely male :-)

I do agree that gardenias are somewhat akin to cats. I am currently the proud slave of two charming felines and they wouldn't have it any other way! The gardenias are a bit more finicky, but I believe that they too are glad to own me (well, once they realized that I am in fact a gardenia idiot and that I will make plenty of mistakes).

Have you guys ever used that Bayer 2 in 1 complete (in the blue bottle, and I use the granular form), fertilizer and insecticide together? I use it on my gardenia and it is very happy and healthy. It keeps it fertilized and keeps the bugs away.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Carol

I agree with Daisyruffles...use a systemic.

My gardenia growing has been very successful since I did three things: systemic insecticide (I use Bayer Tree and Shrub, which has imidacloprid), get the pH down using a peat-based/bark medium and Miracid fert, and never water with tapwater or well water, only use treated (RO) water or rainwater.

Hmm, I had not heard of a systemic insecticide before. I have to admit that I've never really had a problem with any kind of bugs before on indoor plants, so this is all new to me. I am starting to worry again though since it's just about time to bring the gardenias in for the winter. I think that will happen either tomorrow or Tuesday. Where do I find this Bayer insecticide? And are there any tips for where to put the gardenias when I bring them in? How much light would they like this winter? And how often would they like to be treated with the insecticide and fertilizer?

I just looked up the Bayer Advanced on the web site, and it specifically says not to use it on container plants but does not explain why. Has anyone tried it in a container? Has anyone found anything that works really well on container plants that come indoors in the winter?

Bayer Tree and Shrub, available anywhere you can buy garden supplies. 2T/gallon. I first read about it here or on another forum, I can't remember. I use it all the time on container plants. I don't think it lasts 12 months, but it does work a long, long time. Don't use on edibles. SB

Well, my gardenia is in a nice size pot and will be for its life. I have only had it for like 8 months but has grown leaps and bounds and is very happy there. I want to bring it into my baby greenhouse for the winter tho we don't get too cold but just in case.
So that is interesting on why not to use it in pots. I would like to know the reason tho.

I looked up the label online and can't find where it says not to use it on container plants. All I saw is that it says to use on "outdoor trees and shrubs". This tells me 1) don't use it indoors and 2) don't use it on annuals, perennials, etc, just on trees/shrubs. Based on what I saw on the label, I would assume if you have a tree or shrub in a container outdoors, you could use it for that. Maybe I missed something though!

If it does indeed say not to use in containers and I just missed it, it's most likely because 1) they assume most containers are either going to be indoors or are likely to contain annuals/perennials which this product is not designed for so they're trying to limit their liability and make sure you use the product correctly, or 2) all their efficacy testing was done on trees/shrubs in the ground since that's where most people keep them, so they're not allowed to recommend for container use since they didn't do any testing that way.

Hmmm... interesting. Does it say anywhere on the label that the stuff isn't safe for kids or animals? If it's safe for my cats, then I think it may be worth a try even though my little gardenias are most definitely container plants.

And it occurred to me that maybe they don't want the product used in containers because there's a residue that should be washed out? If it's put onto a tree outdoors, it may stick around in the soil for awhile, but eventually the place will be flushed clean with rainwater or sprinkler water. That same thing won't happen to a potted plant unless it's outdoors with one heck of a drainage hole.

All EPA registered pesticides regardless of how safe they actually are have a warning about keep out of reach of children, so this one would too. I would make sure kids/pets are not around when you're applying it, but there was something on the label about how long after application you could let people/pets in the area again (obviously, you don't want to have to keep your kids inside all year because you put this stuff on your trees! So as long as nobody's eating the treated plants, you should be fine. If your cats eat plants though, then I would probably not use this.

I don't know about the not washing out bit--fertilizers actually tend to wash out of container plants pretty quickly (more quickly than plants in the ground), so I assume that would be true here too.

I do know that this stuff stinks so I wouldn't want it inside anyways.
I also think the smell keeps the animals away. I have 2 cats and have never ever seen them around the areas I do use it.
I have used it around perennials. I had these green caterpillars on this one perennial and it was bad. I didn't have anything to put on it so I just put some of the Bayer syst. around and in a day, the cat. were gone.
I also had used it around some tiger lilies that had aphids all over them and that help them too.

"I don't know about the not washing out bit--fertilizers actually tend to wash out of container plants pretty quickly (more quickly than plants in the ground), so I assume that would be true here too."

I assumed that this is why it does last as long in containers, but I could be totally wrong about that.

I don't know if that's why it wouldn't last as long in containers--my understanding of how this stuff works is that it's absorbed through the roots and then stays inside the plant all year. I don't think it's sticking around in the soil to be reabsorbed later, I think it's a one shot deal. Maybe since the root mass of a container plant is so much smaller though it doesn't absorb as much of the stuff as a plant that's the same size planted in the ground?

Pardon me for lurking and enjoying this great discussion. I'm very interested in the subject of pesticides (but not in a professional way, just as a gardener).

I came across a great resource called extoxnet, an extension service of several US universities providing detailed information about many pesticides. Here's the link: http://extoxnet.orst.edu/

It's not commercial, so you avoid the marketing hype; and the information is in consumer-accessible plain language.

Most systemic insecticides have been banned in Canada (where I am). I was a big fan of dimethoate (Cygon). Can't get Diazinon any more either. So I reviewed many of the products listed on this site to find a substitute.

The best one now seems to be carbaryl (Sevin), which has some systemic action. It can be used as a soil drench or a foliar spray. This means that the insect is poisoned on contact with the chemical (by crawling over it or living in the soil), or when it ingests the poison on the surface of a leaf, or when it ingests the juices of the plant (the juice carries the poison). Triple whammy!

This is a pretty fierce poison and should be used with care around kids and pets (and wear protective stuff when applying). The site explains half-life and carcinogenicity. But it's milder than Cygon or Diazinon. Gardeners used to use arsenic!

Andy